Toby’s blog

An admitted student recently asked me how supportive Harvard is of student initiatives that maybe don’t match up with existing opportunities here. I asked Lisa Dealy, who heads up our office of Clinical and Pro Bono Programs, to respond. She forwarded me her response so I would know what’s happening around here too and said I could post it here if I liked:

“We actually spend a lot of our time with students helping them design and implement clinical and pro bono projects (and sometimes even non clinical/pro bono things) and I like to think we are very supportive of student initiatives. Here are some examples:

“Students wanted to start a Spanish for Public Interest Lawyers course & came to us…we were able to do it quickly (by the next semester) and fairly cheaply by hiring LLM students who are native Spanish speakers; we run it out of the clinical office even though it is a non credit (and non clinical) course. It’s been very successful and now we offer two different levels of the course.

“A few years ago, students approached us about sponsoring trips during fly-out week. We now have established programs during fly out week and spring break and winter intersession—this year about 40 students did pro bono work over spring break and we arranged the placements through various HLS alumni and Lee Branson went as far as arranging housing and group activities for the students. We invited clinical instructors to go and provide extra on-site supervision. So, not only did we respond to the initial student idea, but we’ve continued to refine the idea and make it better each year.

“We also recently assisted a student who was trying to set up a program for local kids coming out of foster care—she was not seeking credit for this, but she wanted replicate a model she had learned about during her independent clinical work last winter. We gave her contacts with people both within HLS and outside of HLS and gave her advice on how to proceed and what she could do within HLS to ensure this program kept going after she had graduated. I met with her several times and last week she was in to report that a Cambridge non-profit had picked up the program and she has 1L students interested in keeping the program going.

“We work really hard to make sure students aren’t duplicating efforts (either within HLS or trying to start an organization that already exists in the community)…but even when we find students trying to reinvent the wheel we don’t turn them away, we talk to them to see if they can do something that hasn’t been done yet!”

Q: Why has HLS created its new 3L tuition Public Service Initiative, as opposed to simply increasing funds to LIPP?

A: The new 3L tuition initiative is something I’ve been dreaming about for many years but never thought would see happen because it is so revolutionary. In the beginning of my time at HLS, I thought we should put all of our back-end resources into our loan repayment program (which was the first in the country and remains one of the very best).

But after a while I began to realize that the specter of debt hanging over their heads deterred many students from going into public service, no matter how great our loan repayment program is. We knew they could afford to do it with our support, but the psychological debt aversion was real and we wanted to help with that. At the same time, we didn’t want to do an up-front, selective fellowship.

I’ve learned over the years that you can’t take out a crystal ball and figure out who will go into public service work. Some of the people most committed to post-law school public service work are the ones who worked in the private sector before law school and needed to use all of our wonderful resources to build a public interest track record while here.

We also didn’t want to use this as a recruiting tool and just select people on criteria like LSAT or GPA. We thought all of our students should get the extra help to boost them into public interest work. That’s why we’ve made it non-selective and that students can make the decision to participate as late as their 3L year. That’s what makes this unique (and we don’t even have any idea of how expensive it will be because it is an entitlement program). Students can still take advantage of our fabulous LIPP program for the rest of their debt, they’ll just enter it with one-third less tuition debt.

We are not naïve enough to think that the extra $41,000 is going to pull people who really want to go to a firm for a while from going there – but we do hope and think it will help more people take the plunge if they want to do public interest work but were just afraid of having too much debt hanging over their heads. We genuinely hope and expect that this new initiative, along with our other generous programs, will help a critical mass get into and stay in public interest work. I’m really grateful to Dean Kagan for her willingness to create what is potentially a very expensive program.

Q: How many years of experience do you have in advising students on public interest careers and what is the advantage of that length of experience?

A: I have been doing public interest advising for 14 years (not including the semester I spent as a Wasserstein Fellow-in Residence at HLS) before joining the office. My longevity offers HLS students a lot of benefits that advisers who haven’t been doing public interest advising as long just can’t match even if they have a lot of public interest work experience.

First, doing this work for a long time has allowed me to build up expertise in a wide range of practice settings and types of work beyond my own expertise. I was a poverty lawyer before joining HLS but because I have learned so much from our student and alumni experiences, I now have expertise in such divergent areas as the hiring practices of the Department of Justice and how to break into the competitive world of civil rights and civil liberties advocacy.

Perhaps even more importantly, I have a network of lawyers that I can call upon to give students insider advice about their areas of practice and sometimes an extra leg up in the application process. One service we provide to many students is to give them personal referrals to alums or other lawyers working in their area of interest from my own “mental rolodex” or from more formal databases. That network has been built through 14 years of meeting panelists and visiting Wasserstein Fellows (some of whom aren’t HLS grads but with whom I have a connection), through working with employers around the world and through knowing graduates who have cycled through OPIA. The many graduates who used our services while in law school and have personal connections to our staff are especially loyal.

Alexa Shabecoff heads up the Bernard Koteen Office of Public Interest Advising. I thought a little Q&A with her would help highlight our philosophy and practices in the area of public interest and public service advising and programming. I’ll do one Q and one A each day for the next 3…

Q: What is the advantage to students at Harvard Law School of having an entire office devoted to public interest advising (as opposed to having just one person or being part of a general career services office, as is the case at other schools)?

A: One advantage of an entire office with a number of advisers is that in peak seasons we still have plenty of staff to go around. Since we (and all law schools) aren’t allowed to provide 1Ls with individual career counseling until November 1^st, the floodgates open then and I would imagine that even at a small school one person would be swamped. We also are able to offer a wide range of backgrounds, personalities and expertise.

For example, we have a staffer with a ton of experience in criminal work. We have a staffer who does nothing but federal government advising and runs our Heyman Fellowships program. We have someone who only does Fellowships advising–her expertise is a main driver of our success at winning competitive outside fellowships (which is why we haven’t had to resort to having many of our own fellowships).

Our large staff means that we can build up expertise on a wide range of issues; for example, one person is developing a lot of expertise in human rights placements (on top of the expertise that the many attorneys in our Human Rights Program already have). Finally, it means we have people with different personality types that fit the wide array of personalities at HLS–extroverts, introverts, people who will hold your hand a lot and people who will help but let you do your own thing if you don’t need too much guidance–so that students can find the right adviser for them.

We are very fortunate in having a full office with its own budget as that allows us to focus on public service, continue to refine our expertise and create programs—not just advising but also community-building programs—that we think can best serve the students and alumni at Harvard Law School while working closely with other offices at the law school.

Anyone who’s considered working for the federal government after law school probably knows how coveted the positions are. Still, in spite of the prestige, the compensation can fall quite short of what one’s classmates can expect from the private sector (though with LIPP and the new Public Service Initiative’s 3L Tuition benefit, HLS can help a bit with that).

We recently reached out to Joan Ruttenberg, the Program Director for the Heyman Fellowship Program, to pick her mind on the issue.

Q: Generally speaking, what does HLS have to offer students interested in federal government work?

A: HLS has made a real priority of encouraging students to consider federal government work, and of supporting students who try it out. We offer targeted career advising for federal government work, extra stipends for federal summer internships, a competitive post-graduate fellowship program that offers both stipends and significant loan repayment assistance for grads starting federal careers, and on-campus programming with federal lawyers from all practice settings. Perhaps most important, Harvard’s network of willing alumni mentors in federal careers is unparalleled.

The result of these benefits is tangible: at DOJ alone, for example, in the past decade, from 26% to 41% of Harvard Law students applying to the extremely competitive post-grad DOJ Honors Program have received offers every year (from 14 to 26 students); the percentages for students receiving offers for the competitive second year DOJ Summer Law Intern Program are comparable, ranging from 22% to 46% of applicants each year (from 12 to 25 students). Typically, Harvard Law students receive more offers for the Honors and SLIP programs than students at any other law school in the nation. And dozens of students participate in the second year Volunteer Law Intern program at DOJ as well.

Q: What is the Heyman Fellowship Program?

A: The Heyman Fellowship Program was established in 2000 by HLS alumnus Samuel J. Heyman, ’63. Heyman spent the early years of his career in Robert Kennedy’s Justice Department, and still regards that experience as unmatched in excitement, challenge and commitment. Through the Heyman Fellowship Program, he seeks to encourage more of the best and the brightest of HLS students to enter federal public service. The Heyman Program has several components: a summer internship program, offering extra stipends to students in federal summer internships and providing the opportunity for students to meet and converse with prominent federal lawyers and judges; the graduate fellowship program, providing fellowship payments to 15-20 young HLS graduates in federal careers annually and (to a subset with heavy debt loads) loan repayment assistance on top of HLS’ already-generous loan repayment program; and on-campus programming, including visits from Heyman Fellows to talk about their careers, as well as brownbags and one-on-one counseling sessions with federal lawyers from a variety of practice settings.

Q: How does the Heyman Fellowship Program work?

A: Any first or second year student who is pursuing a summer job in federal government can apply to be a Heyman Summer Intern. Any federal position other than a judicial internship is eligible, whether in DC or elsewhere. Those selected will receive a stipend (that is in addition to any guaranteed Summer Public Interest Funding [SPIF] they may already be getting from HLS). During the summer, Heyman Summer Interns will be able to attend lunches with lawyers like the Legal Adviser to the State Department, top legislative counsels on Capitol Hill and United States Attorneys. They will also socialize with graduate Heyman Fellows and find mentors among them.

Current HLS graduates and those from the prior two years’ classes who are going into federal government work are eligible to apply for the graduate Heyman Fellowship Program. Those who are selected as Heyman Fellows will receive a $5,000 one-time fellowship payment, and some, based on debt load, will also be eligible for up to $25,000 in additional loan repayment assistance. Heyman Fellows agree to spend at least three years in federal government, and to act as mentors to HLS students and graduates interested in federal public service.

Programming throughout the year creates a wonderful sense of community among the Heyman Fellows; for example, upwards of 60 Fellows and program alumni attend our annual banquet in Washington, DC every year, where they welcome the new class of Fellows and hear comments from Dean Elena Kagan, founder Samuel J. Heyman, and other HLS alumni with impressive federal careers.

The Heyman Fellows are a growing and inspiring network of HLS graduates in federal public service. This network is available for all HLS students and graduates to use in their own career planning and exploration. Heyman Fellows have helped students get some great summer jobs at the last minute when other plans have fallen through (for example, when one student’s security clearance did not come through in time for her internship at the Department of Defense, a Heyman Fellow was able to point her to an opening in the Office of Foreign Assets Control at the Department of Treasury, where she had a fantastic summer) and give each other the heads-up about job opportunities in their own offices (more than one Heyman Fellow has found a second federal job through information on the Heyman network). Heyman Fellows also return regularly to HLS to speak on panels and offer one-on-one counseling with HLS students interested in or curious about federal practice.

Q: How does the Heyman Fellowship Program differ from similar programs at other schools?

A: There are essentially no comparable programs at other law schools. A few schools have much smaller programs that offer assistance to one or two students a year, but none are of the magnitude of HLS’ program. Federal public service (or even government work in general) is often excluded from other schools’ loan repayment assistance programs, either categorically or de facto because of resource limitations. HLS has always had an incredible set of alumni who have had spent stellar careers (or portions of their careers) in federal government. But the Heyman Program has added to this a growing sense of community and giving back among its federal government alumni that is of tremendous value to current and future students. The size of the HLS student body and of the Heyman Program itself have resulted in a critical mass of alumni federal lawyers and active mentors that is not replicated at any other school.

For more details, and to see a roster of Heyman Fellows and where they work, go to www.law.harvard.edu/students/opia/fellowships/heyman/

On Wednesday, September 5, Alexa Shabecoff, Assistant Dean for Public Service at the Bernard Koteen Office of Public Interest Advising (OPIA), hosted a Public Interest Dinner for 3Ls to give advice and networking strategies for HLS’s next graduating class. “At any stage in public interest advising, and particularly this one, it’s impossible to give ‘one-size-fits-all’ advice,” Shabecoff began. “The more advanced a student you are, the harder it gets.”

Still, her guidance proved relevant and reassuring to a crowd that has already spent two summers testing the waters of public interest internships and are either rethinking their interests or simply want to know where and how to proceed.

In spite of their lower salaries, public interest jobs are normally more difficult to obtain than those at private-sector law firms due to their smaller sizes and lower rates of attrition. The hiring timeline for public interest firms also requires more patience. Generally speaking, the earliest deadlines tend to be Federal government agencies.

But don’t be discouraged! “The good news is that there are more jobs now than ever,” Shabecoff emphasized. “There are also many HLS post-graduate fellowships to explore… Often, firms without the funds to hire a new attorney, or who won’t hire one at entry-level, change their minds if you bring your own fellowship money.”

Among the resources available to public interest students, Shabecoff encouraged 3Ls to employ OPIA’s job database and PSLawnet.org. Beyond the resources at HLS, Shabecoff identified job fairs as another valuable search tool. The Massachusetts Law School Consortium and the Equal Justice Works career fair in Washington, DC are just two prominent examples of events intended to match public interest employers with applicants.

“Yet, above all else,” Shabecoff explained, “networking is key for the public interest job search… it’s a great way to find out about jobs that aren’t widely advertised.” In addition to the online alumni database, she encouraged 3Ls to speak to their professors and sign up for mock interviews. Too often, applicants lose out on offers because of their failure to self-promote.

I sat in on a Career Services-run panel the other day where several recent graduates talked about the challenges and obstacles facing women trying to climb the professional ranks in their law firm careers. The panelists, all mothers, included: Kate Bolland, HLS ’95, in-house counsel for Blue Cross Blue Shield; Elaine McChesney, HLS ’78, business litigation partner with Bingham McCutcheon; Shelley Chapman, HLS ’81, partner in the New York office of Wilkie Farr and Chair of its Women’s Professional Development programs; and Christine Dutt, a senior associate with Greenberg Taurig in Boston.

A recent study conducted by the MIT Workplace Center entitled, “Women Lawyers and Obstacles to Leadership,” suggested that women tend to leave the partnership track before the point of election to partnership at a much higher rate than men. When asked about this statistic and career development, Chapman pointed to the importance of finding a mentor in your firm. “It’s important to take charge of your career early so that you can bargain later. When you get to your first firm, find out who the best attorneys are and work with them.” Chapman further emphasized what the rest of the panelists would echo throughout the presentation. “You must take hold of your destiny by being an active participant in your career and mentoring yourself up.”

On the question of whether women’s careers tend to suffer as they decide to have families, the four panelists agreed: “It depends.” The stress of balancing family and career can be brutal. “Certainly, your loyalty will be tested from time to time,” warned Bolland, “even by your childless female colleagues. I once had a boss who felt betrayed by the birth of my daughter. It’s all about keeping your priorities straight.”

As recruiting season gets underway, the panelists had some practical advice too. “Maintain a professional air and be able to fully speak to your resume, ask practical questions about life at the firm including questions about family friendliness, and part-time policies,” said McChesney. Chapman agreed. “And be sure to talk to the female associates. Look to them as bellwethers for chances of job satisfaction.” In an effort to tie her fellow panelists’ words together and to conclude on a thoughtful note, Bolland posed the following: “If you hold people to principles… and you approach your career with personal integrity, you will have a more rewarding experience.”

An attendee reported back to me about a panel last Wednesday on the professional issues facing the gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender student community at HLS. Moderated by the Assistant Dean of Career Services, Mark Weber, the panelists included: Ricardo Castro, General Counsel for the Open Society Institute chaired by George Soros; Jill Harris, a political activist and campaign manager; Richard Segal, HLS ’91, a partner at the San Diego office of Pillsbury, Winthrop, Shaw and Pittman, LLP; and Bill Candelaria, HLS ’95, a partner at the New York office of Gibson, Dunn, and Crutcher LLP.

Dean Weber first asked if being “out” on a resume is advantageous to the applicant. “Yes,” said Segal unequivocally. “When I first graduated from law school, being gay wasn’t discussed. Nowadays, it’s seen as a way to diversify firms and there are pushes to recruit gay law students.” Indeed, recent years have seen an increase in the number of firms promoting the integration of gay and lesbian attorneys as part of their business agenda. “Being out in the profession is definitely accepted and you shouldn’t hide it, especially if you’re active in gay organizations,” said Candelaria. “On the other hand, firms don’t want to see something contrived. Don’t emphasize being gay at the expense of your professional interests.”

While the panelists expressed differing opinions on the circumstances under which homosexuality should be divulged, they all believed it is important to know as soon as possible whether a firm is going to be accepting. Candelaria advised prudence. “Lots of people want to learn about a firm first before expressing interest in diversity issues and anti-discrimination policies.” Segal disagreed. “It’s hard for us [as employers] to broach the issue if you don’t. The sooner the better.” In terms of learning more about the diversity of firms, the alumni network and other openly gay associate can be the most valuable tools. “You need to look for manifestations of actual support, not just HR lip service given to anti-discrimination policies.” warned Segal.

In spite of it all, problems will exist and no job is perfect. As Castro said, “Law firms are not one big monolith, but a collection of human beings. There’s never just one experience. Whether to be open is an intensely person decision and you must permit yourself different approaches, both tactical and principled.”

So every year the Public Interest Auction packs the Ames Courtroom to the brim, standing-room only, as HLS students, faculty, and staff bid on a number of items with the proceeds going to support Summer Public Interest Funding. It is a raucous event hosted by the dean, with musical entertainment, costumes, and fierce bidding wars.

This year I found myself inadvertantly locked into a competition over a brick. Yes, that’s right: an average-looking, hard, red brick. I’ll let you read the Harvard Law Record for the complete auction story and my little part in it.

I heard from some students that there was some misinformation out on the message boards on the subject of the Low-Income Protection Plan and our financial aid packages—most specifically on post-graduation options. So I posed some questions to Ken Lafler, HLS’s director of Student Financial Services.

Q: Does the LIPP program allow you to practice in the private sector, say in a small law firm?

A: Sure. LIPP is based on income and debt level—so private practice or small law firm practice works just as well as public service if your income level is low enough. We also have several graduates working as in-house counsel at for-profit companies.

Q: Can you get a political job, like on a campaign or in a congressional office, and still qualify for LIPP?

A: Absolutely. Though Summer Public Interest Funding (SPIF) doesn’t cover campaign work, the LIPP program definitely covers political work of all kinds. We’ve had a number of graduates in think tanks, working on campaigns, congressional staff, etc.

Q: Some people think that an HLS graduate’s only choices are a law firm paying $160,000 a year or a very low-paying public interest job. Are those the only feasible options?

A: There is a huge range of employment between those two extremes. Many people are surprised to find that there are public sector positions with starting salaries of $50,000 and above. Jobs in the middle range of salaries present different kinds financial challenges and require good personal budgeting skills, but LIPP will help based on actual income level and debt load, so each individual has his or her own unique situation. Some scenarios are available at this link.

Q: When I do the math, it seems like my loans would be as much as $200,000. That’s got to be something like $5000/month to repay! Is that doable?

A: First of all, not a single HLS graduate has left with that much law school debt any time in the last five years! And 80% of the HLS Class of 2006 who had law school debt graduated with a debt load under $135,000, with a median debt load of under $100,000 (which would mean monthly payments of no more than $1500 and $1200 respectively). Graduates in private sector jobs can manage that kind of debt load (with take-home pay of as much as $7000/month), and those earning low incomes can get help from LIPP for as long as they need it. Plus, with summer jobs paying upwards of $30,000 or $35,000, students who would otherwise borrow the full cost of attendance can cut down on their debt load quite a bit. Many students also supplement their budget with work as a research assistant, undergraduate house tutor, or teaching fellow.

Ken also told me to encourage everyone to check out the financial aid website for the facts about LIPP, SPIF, and financial aid generally.