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	<title>Comments on: IQ: A caste system that gets personal</title>
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		<title>By: Doc Searls</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2007/11/04/iq-a-caste-system-that-gets-personal/comment-page-1/#comment-112050</link>
		<dc:creator>Doc Searls</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 15:07:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2007/11/04/iq-a-caste-system-that-gets-personal/#comment-112050</guid>
		<description>Ben, I&#039;m not the one who brought up Gould. Never read that book, either. 

I don&#039;t deny that we all have innate abilities, and that heredity accounts for many if not all of them. I do not, however, choose to frame my understanding of intelligence with test scores or the parts of our academic system that values them, and which together lead to generalized conclusions that include reduction of &quot;intelligence&quot; to a number. 

I have a weight, and a body temperature. There are instruments for measuring both as quotients. There is no way of measuring my intelligence, other than by the faith of others in it, and through its results in the world.

By those measures I&#039;m doing okay. But even there I&#039;m with &lt;a href=&quot;http://searls.com/whitman.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Whitman&lt;/a&gt;: &quot;I was never measured, and never will be measured.&quot;

Whitman never took an IQ test. If he had, he might not come out as smart as many contemporaries. But he helped make civilization at its best, and that&#039;s what matters.

Oh, by the way, an old friend of mine once showed me his Army IQ and aptitude tests. They showed him to be a dummy, basically. His highest score was 118. Others were below 100. Long after his service he got into computer programming, and eventually made his bones running large programming teams for major banks. Make of that what you will.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ben, I&#8217;m not the one who brought up Gould. Never read that book, either. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t deny that we all have innate abilities, and that heredity accounts for many if not all of them. I do not, however, choose to frame my understanding of intelligence with test scores or the parts of our academic system that values them, and which together lead to generalized conclusions that include reduction of &#8220;intelligence&#8221; to a number. </p>
<p>I have a weight, and a body temperature. There are instruments for measuring both as quotients. There is no way of measuring my intelligence, other than by the faith of others in it, and through its results in the world.</p>
<p>By those measures I&#8217;m doing okay. But even there I&#8217;m with <a href="http://searls.com/whitman.html" rel="nofollow">Whitman</a>: &#8220;I was never measured, and never will be measured.&#8221;</p>
<p>Whitman never took an IQ test. If he had, he might not come out as smart as many contemporaries. But he helped make civilization at its best, and that&#8217;s what matters.</p>
<p>Oh, by the way, an old friend of mine once showed me his Army IQ and aptitude tests. They showed him to be a dummy, basically. His highest score was 118. Others were below 100. Long after his service he got into computer programming, and eventually made his bones running large programming teams for major banks. Make of that what you will.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2007/11/04/iq-a-caste-system-that-gets-personal/comment-page-1/#comment-111990</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 06:22:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2007/11/04/iq-a-caste-system-that-gets-personal/#comment-111990</guid>
		<description>Your comment is awaiting moderation.
Doc, I doubt this will convince you, but, sadly, The Mismeasure of Man is one of Gould’s worst books. It’s filled with straw-man arguments, ignores the existing evidence, and picks &amp; chooses who he will argue against. For example, Gould omits any mention of the eugenicists of the left, such as Margaret Sanger. 

I would recommend Steven Pinker’s The Blank Slate instead.

While the nonscientific reviews of The Mismeasure of Man were almost uniformly laudatory, the reviews in the scientific journals were almost all highly critical (Davis, Bernard D. (1983). Neo-Lysenkoism, IQ, and the press. The Public Interest, 74, 41-59). 

- Gould also makes some misleading comments about the early performance of Jewish migrants on psychometric tests. Goddard never found that Jews as a group did poorly, and there is no evidence the tests were used in passing the 1924 Immigration Act (see, Franz Samelson (1975, 1982), Snyderman &amp; Herrnstein 1983). 

- Gould overlooks identical twin studies. 

- Gould’s factor analysis is incorrect (also see John Carroll’s review Intelligence 21, 121-134 (1995), (also, Jensen Contemporary Education Review Summer 1982, Volume 1, Number 2, pp. 121- 135.) David J. Bartholomew, from London School of Economics, who has writtena textbook on factor analysis, also explains in “Measuring Intelligence: Facts and Fallacies” where Gould goes wrong in this area. 

-Gould states that Morton “doctored” his collection of results on cranial size, but J. S. Michael (1988) remeasured a random sample of the Morton collection he found that very few errors had been made, and that these were not in the direction that Gould had asserted. 

- The Army actually still uses IQ tests, and more generally, the tests have been shown to strongly predict academic performance. 

- Gould largely attacks old tests. Jensen responded to a large amount of Gould’s criticism in Contemporary Education Review
Summer 1982, Volume 1, Number 2, pp. 121- 135.) I don’t think Gould ever replied.

-He attacks Cyril Burt for fabricating his twin studies, but books since Gould’s first edition came out have vindicated Burt (Joynson (1988) and the other by Ronald Fletcher (1991). Further, twin studies since show average heritability from these studies of 75%, almost the same as Burts supposedly ‘faked’ heritability of 77%.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your comment is awaiting moderation.<br />
Doc, I doubt this will convince you, but, sadly, The Mismeasure of Man is one of Gould’s worst books. It’s filled with straw-man arguments, ignores the existing evidence, and picks &amp; chooses who he will argue against. For example, Gould omits any mention of the eugenicists of the left, such as Margaret Sanger. </p>
<p>I would recommend Steven Pinker’s The Blank Slate instead.</p>
<p>While the nonscientific reviews of The Mismeasure of Man were almost uniformly laudatory, the reviews in the scientific journals were almost all highly critical (Davis, Bernard D. (1983). Neo-Lysenkoism, IQ, and the press. The Public Interest, 74, 41-59). </p>
<p>- Gould also makes some misleading comments about the early performance of Jewish migrants on psychometric tests. Goddard never found that Jews as a group did poorly, and there is no evidence the tests were used in passing the 1924 Immigration Act (see, Franz Samelson (1975, 1982), Snyderman &amp; Herrnstein 1983). </p>
<p>- Gould overlooks identical twin studies. </p>
<p>- Gould’s factor analysis is incorrect (also see John Carroll’s review Intelligence 21, 121-134 (1995), (also, Jensen Contemporary Education Review Summer 1982, Volume 1, Number 2, pp. 121- 135.) David J. Bartholomew, from London School of Economics, who has writtena textbook on factor analysis, also explains in “Measuring Intelligence: Facts and Fallacies” where Gould goes wrong in this area. </p>
<p>-Gould states that Morton “doctored” his collection of results on cranial size, but J. S. Michael (1988) remeasured a random sample of the Morton collection he found that very few errors had been made, and that these were not in the direction that Gould had asserted. </p>
<p>- The Army actually still uses IQ tests, and more generally, the tests have been shown to strongly predict academic performance. </p>
<p>- Gould largely attacks old tests. Jensen responded to a large amount of Gould’s criticism in Contemporary Education Review<br />
Summer 1982, Volume 1, Number 2, pp. 121- 135.) I don’t think Gould ever replied.</p>
<p>-He attacks Cyril Burt for fabricating his twin studies, but books since Gould’s first edition came out have vindicated Burt (Joynson (1988) and the other by Ronald Fletcher (1991). Further, twin studies since show average heritability from these studies of 75%, almost the same as Burts supposedly ‘faked’ heritability of 77%.</p>
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		<title>By: Bad Science Journalism &#171; Identity Blogger</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2007/11/04/iq-a-caste-system-that-gets-personal/comment-page-1/#comment-5174</link>
		<dc:creator>Bad Science Journalism &#171; Identity Blogger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Nov 2007 13:49:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2007/11/04/iq-a-caste-system-that-gets-personal/#comment-5174</guid>
		<description>[...] As Doc Searls points out here, IQ tests do not actually measure intelligence. They measure how good you are at taking IQ tests. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] As Doc Searls points out here, IQ tests do not actually measure intelligence. They measure how good you are at taking IQ tests. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: &#187; Are You Intelligent - Or Just Wise? Money.Power.Wisdom: Which Do YOU Want?</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2007/11/04/iq-a-caste-system-that-gets-personal/comment-page-1/#comment-5076</link>
		<dc:creator>&#187; Are You Intelligent - Or Just Wise? Money.Power.Wisdom: Which Do YOU Want?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Nov 2007 04:16:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2007/11/04/iq-a-caste-system-that-gets-personal/#comment-5076</guid>
		<description>[...] You Intelligent - Or Just Wise? November 6th, 2007  A comment I made on a thoughtful post at Doc Searls&#8217; blog set off this line of [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] You Intelligent &#8211; Or Just Wise? November 6th, 2007  A comment I made on a thoughtful post at Doc Searls&#8217; blog set off this line of [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Dr.Mani</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2007/11/04/iq-a-caste-system-that-gets-personal/comment-page-1/#comment-4973</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr.Mani</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Nov 2007 18:57:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2007/11/04/iq-a-caste-system-that-gets-personal/#comment-4973</guid>
		<description>Categorization without connotation is a good (or at least useful) thing, isn&#039;t it?

If a task requires specific skills in an area, wouldn&#039;t it help to have a &#039;test&#039; or &#039;measure&#039; to categorize prospects as suitable, ideal or completely unqualified for it?

True, I don&#039;t subscribe to the theory of &#039;genius&#039; as measured by I.Q. test figures - but I do believe a measure of various things, including intelligence (in its many forms) matters in many ways, indeed may even be critical in certain areas.  

All success
Dr.Mani</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Categorization without connotation is a good (or at least useful) thing, isn&#8217;t it?</p>
<p>If a task requires specific skills in an area, wouldn&#8217;t it help to have a &#8216;test&#8217; or &#8216;measure&#8217; to categorize prospects as suitable, ideal or completely unqualified for it?</p>
<p>True, I don&#8217;t subscribe to the theory of &#8216;genius&#8217; as measured by I.Q. test figures &#8211; but I do believe a measure of various things, including intelligence (in its many forms) matters in many ways, indeed may even be critical in certain areas.  </p>
<p>All success<br />
Dr.Mani</p>
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		<title>By: Doc Searls</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2007/11/04/iq-a-caste-system-that-gets-personal/comment-page-1/#comment-4943</link>
		<dc:creator>Doc Searls</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Nov 2007 16:46:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2007/11/04/iq-a-caste-system-that-gets-personal/#comment-4943</guid>
		<description>Dr. Mani, what about those whose performance exceeds their measured ability at any of those many &quot;intelligences&quot;?

Why does &quot;IQ matter&quot;, even if it has many forms?

IQ is about categorization. That&#039;s what it&#039;s used for. And it&#039;s an &#039;-ism&quot; no less bad than racism, sexism and the rest of them. And perhaps far worse, because it&#039;s applied, individually, to all kids, in ways that have profound effects on their lives. That&#039;s how it really matters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dr. Mani, what about those whose performance exceeds their measured ability at any of those many &#8220;intelligences&#8221;?</p>
<p>Why does &#8220;IQ matter&#8221;, even if it has many forms?</p>
<p>IQ is about categorization. That&#8217;s what it&#8217;s used for. And it&#8217;s an &#8216;-ism&#8221; no less bad than racism, sexism and the rest of them. And perhaps far worse, because it&#8217;s applied, individually, to all kids, in ways that have profound effects on their lives. That&#8217;s how it really matters.</p>
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		<title>By: Dr.Mani</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2007/11/04/iq-a-caste-system-that-gets-personal/comment-page-1/#comment-4932</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr.Mani</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Nov 2007 15:31:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2007/11/04/iq-a-caste-system-that-gets-personal/#comment-4932</guid>
		<description>I.Q. does matter - except there isn&#039;t a reliable and comprehensive way to measure the different kinds that matter!

In his 1983 book, &quot;Frames of Mind: The Theory of Multiple Intelligences&quot;, Howard Gardner described 8 domains of intelligence:

- linguistic
- logical-mathematical
- spatial
- musical
- bodily-kinesthetic
- intrapersonal
- interpersonal 
- naturalistic

More here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_multiple_intelligences

Conventional I.Q. tests (from where the data on Ashkenazi Jews were derived) do not measure all of them.  I also seem to vaguely recall a factoid from med school - Ashkenazi Jews had brains that weighed 2% more than the non-AJ population, on average.

Nice post, anyway :)

All success
Dr.Mani</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I.Q. does matter &#8211; except there isn&#8217;t a reliable and comprehensive way to measure the different kinds that matter!</p>
<p>In his 1983 book, &#8220;Frames of Mind: The Theory of Multiple Intelligences&#8221;, Howard Gardner described 8 domains of intelligence:</p>
<p>- linguistic<br />
- logical-mathematical<br />
- spatial<br />
- musical<br />
- bodily-kinesthetic<br />
- intrapersonal<br />
- interpersonal<br />
- naturalistic</p>
<p>More here: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_multiple_intelligences" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_multiple_intelligences</a></p>
<p>Conventional I.Q. tests (from where the data on Ashkenazi Jews were derived) do not measure all of them.  I also seem to vaguely recall a factoid from med school &#8211; Ashkenazi Jews had brains that weighed 2% more than the non-AJ population, on average.</p>
<p>Nice post, anyway <img src='http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>All success<br />
Dr.Mani</p>
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		<title>By: Hanan Cohen</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2007/11/04/iq-a-caste-system-that-gets-personal/comment-page-1/#comment-4880</link>
		<dc:creator>Hanan Cohen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Nov 2007 11:45:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2007/11/04/iq-a-caste-system-that-gets-personal/#comment-4880</guid>
		<description>Three points:

1. I am an Ashkenazi Jew.

2. The school have shown me the door after 10th grade. The next two years I have spent as an electricians apprentice were among the most enriching I had in my life.

3. It&#039;s a Good Thing that we don&#039;t have this measurement system here in Israel.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Three points:</p>
<p>1. I am an Ashkenazi Jew.</p>
<p>2. The school have shown me the door after 10th grade. The next two years I have spent as an electricians apprentice were among the most enriching I had in my life.</p>
<p>3. It&#8217;s a Good Thing that we don&#8217;t have this measurement system here in Israel.</p>
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		<title>By: Don Marti</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2007/11/04/iq-a-caste-system-that-gets-personal/comment-page-1/#comment-4811</link>
		<dc:creator>Don Marti</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Nov 2007 04:13:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2007/11/04/iq-a-caste-system-that-gets-personal/#comment-4811</guid>
		<description>Is the problem measurement or telling people how they measure?

&lt;a href=&quot;http://nymag.com/news/features/27840/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&quot;How Not to Talk to Your Kids&quot;&lt;/a&gt; by Po Bronson

&quot;What if the best that I can be just isn&#039;t good enough?  Isn&#039;t it better not to know?&quot;  -- &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.jonathancoulton.com/2006/08/04/thing-a-week-44-big-bad-world-one/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Jonathan Coulton&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is the problem measurement or telling people how they measure?</p>
<p><a href="http://nymag.com/news/features/27840/" rel="nofollow">&#8220;How Not to Talk to Your Kids&#8221;</a> by Po Bronson</p>
<p>&#8220;What if the best that I can be just isn&#8217;t good enough?  Isn&#8217;t it better not to know?&#8221;  &#8212; <a href="http://www.jonathancoulton.com/2006/08/04/thing-a-week-44-big-bad-world-one/" rel="nofollow">Jonathan Coulton</a></p>
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		<title>By: Doc Searls</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2007/11/04/iq-a-caste-system-that-gets-personal/comment-page-1/#comment-4804</link>
		<dc:creator>Doc Searls</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Nov 2007 02:22:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2007/11/04/iq-a-caste-system-that-gets-personal/#comment-4804</guid>
		<description>Quick one... Just arrived in Denver from London and need sleep badly.

I wrote this post in great haste, and simply ran out of time before I could mention Steven Jay Gould&#039;s classic &quot;The Mismeasure of Man.&quot; What he said then still applies now. What&#039;s remarkable is that, decades later, we still have this notion that people possess &quot;an IQ.&quot; Read a piece in Time recently on Birth Order — it showed up again on the plane today — that talks about how IQ descends with birth order. Not &quot;IQ &lt;i&gt;scores&lt;/i&gt;.&quot; Just IQ. Arg.

Jon, good stuff as usual. Dunno why your post would be held in moderation. I didn&#039;t see it there, and I don&#039;t think links would have anything to do with it, but hey, I dunno.

Thanks, all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quick one&#8230; Just arrived in Denver from London and need sleep badly.</p>
<p>I wrote this post in great haste, and simply ran out of time before I could mention Steven Jay Gould&#8217;s classic &#8220;The Mismeasure of Man.&#8221; What he said then still applies now. What&#8217;s remarkable is that, decades later, we still have this notion that people possess &#8220;an IQ.&#8221; Read a piece in Time recently on Birth Order — it showed up again on the plane today — that talks about how IQ descends with birth order. Not &#8220;IQ <i>scores</i>.&#8221; Just IQ. Arg.</p>
<p>Jon, good stuff as usual. Dunno why your post would be held in moderation. I didn&#8217;t see it there, and I don&#8217;t think links would have anything to do with it, but hey, I dunno.</p>
<p>Thanks, all.</p>
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