Comments on: Will the Clinton Era come to a graceful end? http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2008/02/10/will-the-clinton-era-come-to-a-graceful-end/ Same old blog, brand new place Fri, 04 Dec 2009 20:29:45 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5.2 hourly 1 By: Pauly http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2008/02/10/will-the-clinton-era-come-to-a-graceful-end/comment-page-1/#comment-26716 Pauly Mon, 11 Feb 2008 22:31:57 +0000 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2008/02/10/will-the-clinton-era-come-to-a-graceful-e#comment-26716 @Bob: "As long as the Republicans have 41 votes you will not get serious change" is true only insofar as the new executive branch continues to play the partisan polarization game. And I think that Obama is much much closer to being able to transcend that than Clinton is. I even think a President McCain would be more able to effectively bring about bipartisan change than Clinton would be. That said, while I agree with James that Obama's apparently more-liberal-than-libertarian policy positions would *ordinarily* tend to nullify this belief, I still will contend that a decent amount of what I've heard from Obama over the past year or so tends to cut against the orthodoxy of both the Dems or Repubs to a greater extent than any other candidate excepting (the impractically unviable) Ron Paul. Heck, even *Bush* is able to occasionally get Democratic votes for his policies out of Congress... @Bob: “As long as the Republicans have 41 votes you will not get serious change” is true only insofar as the new executive branch continues to play the partisan polarization game. And I think that Obama is much much closer to being able to transcend that than Clinton is. I even think a President McCain would be more able to effectively bring about bipartisan change than Clinton would be.

That said, while I agree with James that Obama’s apparently more-liberal-than-libertarian policy positions would *ordinarily* tend to nullify this belief, I still will contend that a decent amount of what I’ve heard from Obama over the past year or so tends to cut against the orthodoxy of both the Dems or Repubs to a greater extent than any other candidate excepting (the impractically unviable) Ron Paul.

Heck, even *Bush* is able to occasionally get Democratic votes for his policies out of Congress…

]]> By: quote of the day | mad housewife http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2008/02/10/will-the-clinton-era-come-to-a-graceful-end/comment-page-1/#comment-26666 quote of the day | mad housewife Mon, 11 Feb 2008 16:23:41 +0000 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2008/02/10/will-the-clinton-era-come-to-a-graceful-e#comment-26666 [...] Doc Searls, Linux [...] [...] Doc Searls, Linux [...]

]]> By: Chip http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2008/02/10/will-the-clinton-era-come-to-a-graceful-end/comment-page-1/#comment-26660 Chip Mon, 11 Feb 2008 15:55:08 +0000 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2008/02/10/will-the-clinton-era-come-to-a-graceful-e#comment-26660 Frank Rich Piles on "Civil War" http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/10/opinion/10rich.html?ex=1360299600&en=23f6946c1d507644&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=all Ciao Chip Frank Rich Piles on
“Civil War”

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/10/opinion/10rich.html?ex=1360299600&en=23f6946c1d507644&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=all

Ciao
Chip

]]> By: Bob Boynton http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2008/02/10/will-the-clinton-era-come-to-a-graceful-end/comment-page-1/#comment-26478 Bob Boynton Mon, 11 Feb 2008 00:08:10 +0000 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2008/02/10/will-the-clinton-era-come-to-a-graceful-e#comment-26478 About the only way to do it is to do what Edwards threatened to do -- go to the people. Presidents almost always understand their job as Washington D.C. rather than mobilizing the people who want change. If the president started campaigning for universal health care, for example, beginning on day one and in the districts and states of those who oppose it there is some chance of change. But not much chance when the president negotiates in D.C. The lobbyists have more clout than the president sitting in the oval office does. Campaigns never cease. About the only way to do it is to do what Edwards threatened to do — go to the people. Presidents almost always understand their job as Washington D.C. rather than mobilizing the people who want change. If the president started campaigning for universal health care, for example, beginning on day one and in the districts and states of those who oppose it there is some chance of change. But not much chance when the president negotiates in D.C. The lobbyists have more clout than the president sitting in the oval office does.

Campaigns never cease.

]]> By: Keith Dick http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2008/02/10/will-the-clinton-era-come-to-a-graceful-end/comment-page-1/#comment-26403 Keith Dick Sun, 10 Feb 2008 18:00:11 +0000 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2008/02/10/will-the-clinton-era-come-to-a-graceful-e#comment-26403 Mr. Boynton hit the nail on the head. The system has tremendous inertia. The President can't do much if he doesn't receive the legislation to sign. The underlying problem is the control money has over the government, and by "money" I mostly mean large corporations. I may be lacking imagination, but I can't see any way to break the control of the government that they hold today. The people, on the whole, are too comfortable to demand much change. If there were some way to motivate the electorate to turn ALL the incumbents out -- not to vote for ANYONE who has held an office before -- the resulting free-for-all might result in some real reforms, but it could just as easily end up with big money capturing more control by manipulating inexperienced legislators. Nobody is going to install me as Dictator, which is the only way I can imagine straightening things out, so I am reluctantly resigned to seeing the country slowly devolve into even more of a corporate dictatorship than it already has become (and which has been depicted in more than one science-fictional future). Mr. Boynton hit the nail on the head. The system has tremendous inertia. The President can’t do much if he doesn’t receive the legislation to sign.

The underlying problem is the control money has over the government, and by “money” I mostly mean large corporations. I may be lacking imagination, but I can’t see any way to break the control of the government that they hold today. The people, on the whole, are too comfortable to demand much change. If there were some way to motivate the electorate to turn ALL the incumbents out — not to vote for ANYONE who has held an office before — the resulting free-for-all might result in some real reforms, but it could just as easily end up with big money capturing more control by manipulating inexperienced legislators.

Nobody is going to install me as Dictator, which is the only way I can imagine straightening things out, so I am reluctantly resigned to seeing the country slowly devolve into even more of a corporate dictatorship than it already has become (and which has been depicted in more than one science-fictional future).

]]> By: James Robertson http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2008/02/10/will-the-clinton-era-come-to-a-graceful-end/comment-page-1/#comment-26393 James Robertson Sun, 10 Feb 2008 16:40:54 +0000 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2008/02/10/will-the-clinton-era-come-to-a-graceful-e#comment-26393 The problem with "it's time for a change" is that it's a meaningless statement. What kind of change? I rather expect that the kind of libertarian-ish changes I would be in favor of differ markedly from the liberal-ish changes Obama wants. "Change" is meaningless. It's like deciding to pick a random direction on the highway, and hoping that it leads to a specific point. The problem with “it’s time for a change” is that it’s a meaningless statement. What kind of change? I rather expect that the kind of libertarian-ish changes I would be in favor of differ markedly from the liberal-ish changes Obama wants.

“Change” is meaningless. It’s like deciding to pick a random direction on the highway, and hoping that it leads to a specific point.

]]> By: Bob Boynton http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2008/02/10/will-the-clinton-era-come-to-a-graceful-end/comment-page-1/#comment-26391 Bob Boynton Sun, 10 Feb 2008 16:16:38 +0000 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2008/02/10/will-the-clinton-era-come-to-a-graceful-e#comment-26391 If you are interested in change getting 61 votes in the senate is more important than which of the Democratic candidates wins. As long as the Republicans have 41 votes you will not get serious change -- though you may get them all posturing about how they have brought you change -- the word of the day. Politicians live to posture the word of the day. If you are interested in change getting 61 votes in the senate is more important than which of the Democratic candidates wins. As long as the Republicans have 41 votes you will not get serious change — though you may get them all posturing about how they have brought you change — the word of the day. Politicians live to posture the word of the day.

]]> By: Roland Hesz http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2008/02/10/will-the-clinton-era-come-to-a-graceful-end/comment-page-1/#comment-26372 Roland Hesz Sun, 10 Feb 2008 14:44:33 +0000 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2008/02/10/will-the-clinton-era-come-to-a-graceful-e#comment-26372 I have to admit that all I saw far did not convince me that Obama would be any better, or would represent change. He is the same, saying one thing, doing another, avoiding to answer direct questions. I don't say Hillary is better, I just say, Obama is not that different. Not that it matters what I think, I am not a US voter. I have to admit that all I saw far did not convince me that Obama would be any better, or would represent change.

He is the same, saying one thing, doing another, avoiding to answer direct questions.
I don’t say Hillary is better, I just say, Obama is not that different.

Not that it matters what I think, I am not a US voter.

]]> By: Geld Lenen http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2008/02/10/will-the-clinton-era-come-to-a-graceful-end/comment-page-1/#comment-26340 Geld Lenen Sun, 10 Feb 2008 12:13:14 +0000 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2008/02/10/will-the-clinton-era-come-to-a-graceful-e#comment-26340 It is nice to follow the elections as I will go to the USA for half a year. But now Obama just won... For me it is getting a more and more exciting election, even Dutch press does almost hourly coverage of the elections. It is nice to follow the elections as I will go to the USA for half a year. But now Obama just won… For me it is getting a more and more exciting election, even Dutch press does almost hourly coverage of the elections.

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