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	<title>Comments on: Beyond ownership</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2009/05/05/beyond-ownership/</link>
	<description>Same old blog, brand new place</description>
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		<title>By: C-61 in Canada - A YouTube Documentary &#171; EDITing in the Dark</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2009/05/05/beyond-ownership/comment-page-1/#comment-165250</link>
		<dc:creator>C-61 in Canada - A YouTube Documentary &#171; EDITing in the Dark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 May 2009 15:18:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/?p=1427#comment-165250</guid>
		<description>[...] Digging around my RSS reader (yeah I still do that old RSS thing), I found this article (and now a response) on ownership. So while Kool-aid sipping government members may think that C-61 or it&#8217;s spawn [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Digging around my RSS reader (yeah I still do that old RSS thing), I found this article (and now a response) on ownership. So while Kool-aid sipping government members may think that C-61 or it&#8217;s spawn [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Raj Boora</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2009/05/05/beyond-ownership/comment-page-1/#comment-165248</link>
		<dc:creator>Raj Boora</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 May 2009 15:04:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/?p=1427#comment-165248</guid>
		<description>I saw the original article as well. My in light of what is going on with regards to copyright, the idea that we can&#039;t hold on to anything lends weight only to the strong handed (nee corporate) IP holders.

Corporate will say that you can only ever rent content, artists will say that art is only temporary. Ironically, both are saying the same thing. Both will go on to rework material. Both can do it for profit. Unfortunately, one wants to wipe out all competition and believe that all ideas are their own, while the other wants to see what others have done and take inspiration. One of these two are certainly more concerned with doing, the other with having.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I saw the original article as well. My in light of what is going on with regards to copyright, the idea that we can&#8217;t hold on to anything lends weight only to the strong handed (nee corporate) IP holders.</p>
<p>Corporate will say that you can only ever rent content, artists will say that art is only temporary. Ironically, both are saying the same thing. Both will go on to rework material. Both can do it for profit. Unfortunately, one wants to wipe out all competition and believe that all ideas are their own, while the other wants to see what others have done and take inspiration. One of these two are certainly more concerned with doing, the other with having.</p>
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		<title>By: Erik Cecil</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2009/05/05/beyond-ownership/comment-page-1/#comment-163802</link>
		<dc:creator>Erik Cecil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 03:09:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/?p=1427#comment-163802</guid>
		<description>Doc, great points.  And, of course, regulators aren&#039;t made regulators because of their imaginative, disruptive creative natures.  Folk of those ilk go out at litigate and/or consult.  ;-)  

More deeply and unavoidably, we need to look at the entire ecosystem through the expanded lens of VRM.  I purchase my government with votes, taxes, fees, and behaviors.  Way too much of that is way too opaque and not at all accessible.  There is not an aspect of human behavior that is not regulated.  Government is only slightly less ubiquitous than the Internet, but that does not mean it is to be hated or destroyed, but rather remade.  So far we&#039;ve had half duplex government.  It changes radically when we go to full duplex.  

We are in the midst of that transition now.  Willing buyer and willing seller will happen, but the terms we use and conventions of exchange will not be recognized for some time.  Like all good revolutions, this one will go unnoticed for a long time before it materializes in the consciousness of people.  Government as social media is the beginning as is contract as social media (and social media as contract).  

This also points to the beauty of the Internet: enabling ceaseless change the traditions, rituals and mores of old code are swept away.  Left in high relief are the ancient principles that got us here.  This is sort of like common law, but in this world everyone is judge, everything is precedent, and all are parties.  Where VRM will play the most important role is writing the code of the code that stitches all of it together: IP for law (noting again, that the IP is not the skinny waist, but the nanotubes we play with; waists only happen when markets don&#039;t work, but that doesn&#039;t make the nanotubes not nanotubes; it makes their control something to be dealt with).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doc, great points.  And, of course, regulators aren&#8217;t made regulators because of their imaginative, disruptive creative natures.  Folk of those ilk go out at litigate and/or consult.  <img src='http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' />   </p>
<p>More deeply and unavoidably, we need to look at the entire ecosystem through the expanded lens of VRM.  I purchase my government with votes, taxes, fees, and behaviors.  Way too much of that is way too opaque and not at all accessible.  There is not an aspect of human behavior that is not regulated.  Government is only slightly less ubiquitous than the Internet, but that does not mean it is to be hated or destroyed, but rather remade.  So far we&#8217;ve had half duplex government.  It changes radically when we go to full duplex.  </p>
<p>We are in the midst of that transition now.  Willing buyer and willing seller will happen, but the terms we use and conventions of exchange will not be recognized for some time.  Like all good revolutions, this one will go unnoticed for a long time before it materializes in the consciousness of people.  Government as social media is the beginning as is contract as social media (and social media as contract).  </p>
<p>This also points to the beauty of the Internet: enabling ceaseless change the traditions, rituals and mores of old code are swept away.  Left in high relief are the ancient principles that got us here.  This is sort of like common law, but in this world everyone is judge, everything is precedent, and all are parties.  Where VRM will play the most important role is writing the code of the code that stitches all of it together: IP for law (noting again, that the IP is not the skinny waist, but the nanotubes we play with; waists only happen when markets don&#8217;t work, but that doesn&#8217;t make the nanotubes not nanotubes; it makes their control something to be dealt with).</p>
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		<title>By: Pauly</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2009/05/05/beyond-ownership/comment-page-1/#comment-163799</link>
		<dc:creator>Pauly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 03:06:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/?p=1427#comment-163799</guid>
		<description>I not only love this post from the standpoint of what it means to be an individual participant in this new (and agreed, still emerging) mediasphere, but perhaps even more for what it might imply about the future of the &quot;marketplace&quot; it envelopes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I not only love this post from the standpoint of what it means to be an individual participant in this new (and agreed, still emerging) mediasphere, but perhaps even more for what it might imply about the future of the &#8220;marketplace&#8221; it envelopes.</p>
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		<title>By: Doc Searls</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2009/05/05/beyond-ownership/comment-page-1/#comment-163745</link>
		<dc:creator>Doc Searls</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 23:44:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/?p=1427#comment-163745</guid>
		<description>Erik, check what I wrote &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.linuxjournal.com/node/1000202&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;: &quot;We can do that by taking the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.kqlz.org/modules.php?name=AvantGo&amp;file=print&amp;sid=1468&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&quot;willing seller/willing buyer&quot; concept&lt;/a&gt; out of the abstact and making it concrete. That concept was laid out in 17 U.S.C. 112(e)(4), which says &quot;The Copyright Royalty Judges shall establish rates that most clearly represent the fees that would have been negotiated in the marketplace between a willing buyer and a willing seller.&quot; Apparently nobody involved in any of these lawmaking and regulatory proceedings has imagined a marketplace where listeners can be customers, equipped not only to express demand but to pay for the goods.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Erik, check what I wrote <a href="http://www.linuxjournal.com/node/1000202" rel="nofollow">here</a>: &#8220;We can do that by taking the <a href="http://www.kqlz.org/modules.php?name=AvantGo&amp;file=print&amp;sid=1468" rel="nofollow">&#8220;willing seller/willing buyer&#8221; concept</a> out of the abstact and making it concrete. That concept was laid out in 17 U.S.C. 112(e)(4), which says &#8220;The Copyright Royalty Judges shall establish rates that most clearly represent the fees that would have been negotiated in the marketplace between a willing buyer and a willing seller.&#8221; Apparently nobody involved in any of these lawmaking and regulatory proceedings has imagined a marketplace where listeners can be customers, equipped not only to express demand but to pay for the goods.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Erik Cecil</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2009/05/05/beyond-ownership/comment-page-1/#comment-163719</link>
		<dc:creator>Erik Cecil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 22:12:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/?p=1427#comment-163719</guid>
		<description>Doc, perfect. Tweeted it to some law students I&#039;d worked with who are working on DMCA exemptions before Copyright Office today. #DMCA1201.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doc, perfect. Tweeted it to some law students I&#8217;d worked with who are working on DMCA exemptions before Copyright Office today. #DMCA1201.</p>
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		<title>By: Doc Searls</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2009/05/05/beyond-ownership/comment-page-1/#comment-163413</link>
		<dc:creator>Doc Searls</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 03:18:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/?p=1427#comment-163413</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Tristan. Here is what I wrote about Jefferson (and others) in 1995: http://searls.com/webnew2.html#Age . It&#039;s held up well. 

I&#039;m also concerned about corporate silos, including the ones we call &quot;clouds.&quot; My hope is that they&#039;ll prove less useful in the long run than the open alternatives. But, we&#039;ll see.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Tristan. Here is what I wrote about Jefferson (and others) in 1995: <a href="http://searls.com/webnew2.html#Age" rel="nofollow">http://searls.com/webnew2.html#Age</a> . It&#8217;s held up well. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m also concerned about corporate silos, including the ones we call &#8220;clouds.&#8221; My hope is that they&#8217;ll prove less useful in the long run than the open alternatives. But, we&#8217;ll see.</p>
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		<title>By: Todd Carpenter</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2009/05/05/beyond-ownership/comment-page-1/#comment-163387</link>
		<dc:creator>Todd Carpenter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 01:41:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/?p=1427#comment-163387</guid>
		<description>Great piece, Doc!

This is a topic I&#039;ve thought a lot about recently.  There are many ramifications to this change in ownership versus renting, particularly content.  

Libraries (and musuems) had for a long time been cultural memory institutions.  However, as they increasingly are purchasing online digital versions of content, who will be preserving this information into the future?  Publishers should be doing more in this regard, but they&#039;re not.  Increasingly this is true of all media that is no longer in any analog format.

No one much worried about the preservation of printed texts, because writing on paper (if well stored) can last hundreds or thousands of years.  Digital information can disappear in the blink of an eye, or more likely become obsolete because of media or technology changes.  While publishing-driven initiatives like Portico or LOCKSS address this question for some content, they are only limited to the content participating in those programs.  There is a wide swath of digital information we are apt to lose, such as blogs, Facebook pages, twitter streams, online notebooks, or non-printed research reports that don’t end up in repositories that will likely go dark in future decades.  Much of the current research on historical figures relies on their notes, letters and diaries to round out the story of their lives and activities.  Today much of that is now online and prone to loss.  Not to over-emphasize their present importance, but someone 100 years from now might want to know what the next generation’s President Obama wrote during law school on her Facebook pages.  

Or perhaps, someone might want to study you and your ideas.  Hopefully, they&#039;ll have access to them when Harvard takes your blog down from their servers.

Hope you are all well and can&#039;t wait to see you next month.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great piece, Doc!</p>
<p>This is a topic I&#8217;ve thought a lot about recently.  There are many ramifications to this change in ownership versus renting, particularly content.  </p>
<p>Libraries (and musuems) had for a long time been cultural memory institutions.  However, as they increasingly are purchasing online digital versions of content, who will be preserving this information into the future?  Publishers should be doing more in this regard, but they&#8217;re not.  Increasingly this is true of all media that is no longer in any analog format.</p>
<p>No one much worried about the preservation of printed texts, because writing on paper (if well stored) can last hundreds or thousands of years.  Digital information can disappear in the blink of an eye, or more likely become obsolete because of media or technology changes.  While publishing-driven initiatives like Portico or LOCKSS address this question for some content, they are only limited to the content participating in those programs.  There is a wide swath of digital information we are apt to lose, such as blogs, Facebook pages, twitter streams, online notebooks, or non-printed research reports that don’t end up in repositories that will likely go dark in future decades.  Much of the current research on historical figures relies on their notes, letters and diaries to round out the story of their lives and activities.  Today much of that is now online and prone to loss.  Not to over-emphasize their present importance, but someone 100 years from now might want to know what the next generation’s President Obama wrote during law school on her Facebook pages.  </p>
<p>Or perhaps, someone might want to study you and your ideas.  Hopefully, they&#8217;ll have access to them when Harvard takes your blog down from their servers.</p>
<p>Hope you are all well and can&#8217;t wait to see you next month.</p>
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		<title>By: Tristan Louis</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2009/05/05/beyond-ownership/comment-page-1/#comment-163311</link>
		<dc:creator>Tristan Louis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 21:10:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/?p=1427#comment-163311</guid>
		<description>Doc,

First of all, thanks for the link. As I read through your piece, I couldn&#039;t help but think about a quote I heard recently in the context of spreading ideas. It&#039;s from Jefferson but still very much applicable today: &quot;he who lights his candle at mine receives light without darkening me.&quot;

To wit, Jefferson thought about creating a marketplace of exchange of ideas in a time far far removed from the Internet and many of the early proponents of the internet had similar desires. While there is a tremendous cacophony around the internet, I do suspect that all the knowledge that is poured in represents those goods we can only give. 

There are, however, a few fundamentals which cause me to not share your optimism as to the next stage. Our willingness to let go of control may also be tied to the willingness of corporations to provide us with spaces where they take over that control. At the current time, it is mostly a beneficial relationship but I sometimes wonder if some dastardly and darker corners of corporations might make this more nefarious. I have not made up my mind on that phenomenon yet as the evidence of such behavior seems to still be largely counteracted by the corporate self-interest in participation and preservation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doc,</p>
<p>First of all, thanks for the link. As I read through your piece, I couldn&#8217;t help but think about a quote I heard recently in the context of spreading ideas. It&#8217;s from Jefferson but still very much applicable today: &#8220;he who lights his candle at mine receives light without darkening me.&#8221;</p>
<p>To wit, Jefferson thought about creating a marketplace of exchange of ideas in a time far far removed from the Internet and many of the early proponents of the internet had similar desires. While there is a tremendous cacophony around the internet, I do suspect that all the knowledge that is poured in represents those goods we can only give. </p>
<p>There are, however, a few fundamentals which cause me to not share your optimism as to the next stage. Our willingness to let go of control may also be tied to the willingness of corporations to provide us with spaces where they take over that control. At the current time, it is mostly a beneficial relationship but I sometimes wonder if some dastardly and darker corners of corporations might make this more nefarious. I have not made up my mind on that phenomenon yet as the evidence of such behavior seems to still be largely counteracted by the corporate self-interest in participation and preservation.</p>
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		<title>By: Francine hardaway</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2009/05/05/beyond-ownership/comment-page-1/#comment-163267</link>
		<dc:creator>Francine hardaway</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 18:08:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/?p=1427#comment-163267</guid>
		<description>Doc, you have become a Buddhist.  Practicing non-attachment is the best way to avoid suffering. I work toward this. On the other hand, I also grew up in NYC and my father&#039;s view of a house was &quot;a deep well into which to throw your money.&quot; We rented, moved freely when circumstances changed, and didn&#039;t suffer. Not until I got to Phoenix, the real estate capital of the world, did I realize that other people actually attached status to &quot;owning&quot; a home.

Oh, and by the way Native Americans also don&#039;t believe in ownership, only in stewardship,</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doc, you have become a Buddhist.  Practicing non-attachment is the best way to avoid suffering. I work toward this. On the other hand, I also grew up in NYC and my father&#8217;s view of a house was &#8220;a deep well into which to throw your money.&#8221; We rented, moved freely when circumstances changed, and didn&#8217;t suffer. Not until I got to Phoenix, the real estate capital of the world, did I realize that other people actually attached status to &#8220;owning&#8221; a home.</p>
<p>Oh, and by the way Native Americans also don&#8217;t believe in ownership, only in stewardship,</p>
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