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	<title>Comments on: A note to Comcast from a tiny minority</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2009/11/07/a-note-to-comcast-from-a-tiny-minority/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2009/11/07/a-note-to-comcast-from-a-tiny-minority/</link>
	<description>Same old blog, brand new place</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 24 May 2013 04:12:45 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: coetsee</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2009/11/07/a-note-to-comcast-from-a-tiny-minority/comment-page-1/#comment-227852</link>
		<dc:creator>coetsee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Dec 2009 15:21:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2009/11/07/a-note-to-comcast-from-a-tiny-minority/#comment-227852</guid>
		<description>Its all about chasing shadows.
By that I mean latching on to this or that latest, most innovative idea that some self styled money making guru has put out in the hope it’ll go viral and make them a lot of money off the backs of all the headless chickens who will follow them blindly down a blind alley. Its a shame but a truism nonetheless that people will follow where someone they see as an expert leads. Even if they lead them to certain disaster, which is what most of the gurus tend to do to their flocks. 
The trick is to recognize a shadow when you see it! 

www.onlineuniversalwork.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Its all about chasing shadows.<br />
By that I mean latching on to this or that latest, most innovative idea that some self styled money making guru has put out in the hope it’ll go viral and make them a lot of money off the backs of all the headless chickens who will follow them blindly down a blind alley. Its a shame but a truism nonetheless that people will follow where someone they see as an expert leads. Even if they lead them to certain disaster, which is what most of the gurus tend to do to their flocks.<br />
The trick is to recognize a shadow when you see it! </p>
<p><a href="http://www.onlineuniversalwork.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.onlineuniversalwork.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: Richard Bennett</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2009/11/07/a-note-to-comcast-from-a-tiny-minority/comment-page-1/#comment-223168</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Bennett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 00:48:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2009/11/07/a-note-to-comcast-from-a-tiny-minority/#comment-223168</guid>
		<description>Pings and traceroutes within Korea are very fast, but between Korea and the rest of the world they&#039;re pedestrian. 

Mr. Leyden fails to mention an interesting aspect of the Hong Kong service: the international speed is 20 Mb/s. There are services available in the US in comparably densely-populated areas that offer this much capacity for a similar price, once you take out the taxes, fees, USF contributions, eRate, and all the other burdens on the bill. 

So what can we learn from Asian broadband? There is an intense transnational rivalry between Japan, Korea, and Hong Kong to offer the highest speed broadband for the lowest price per month. The governments have stoked the rivalry by subsidizing fiber in the cities, where most people live in high-rise buildings. The highest speeds are reserved for local end-to-end connections (no hollow sphere) and their primary use is for low-latency gaming and high capacity P2P (mostly piracy and/or porn).

From these examples and similar dynamics in Scandinavia, one can deduce that extremely high broadband speeds are enabled by population density and subsidy, but they&#039;re mainly the result of national rivalries. The US is at a disadvantage, as we don&#039;t really have a national rival. We don&#039;t particularly care what they can do in Japan or Sweden or even Canada. And if the truth be known, bad weather and crappy TV programming probably creates more demand for very high speed broadband than most other factors. 

National telecoms regulators are aware of the fact that the rationale of very high speed broadband is entertainment, not productivity or free speech.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pings and traceroutes within Korea are very fast, but between Korea and the rest of the world they&#8217;re pedestrian. </p>
<p>Mr. Leyden fails to mention an interesting aspect of the Hong Kong service: the international speed is 20 Mb/s. There are services available in the US in comparably densely-populated areas that offer this much capacity for a similar price, once you take out the taxes, fees, USF contributions, eRate, and all the other burdens on the bill. </p>
<p>So what can we learn from Asian broadband? There is an intense transnational rivalry between Japan, Korea, and Hong Kong to offer the highest speed broadband for the lowest price per month. The governments have stoked the rivalry by subsidizing fiber in the cities, where most people live in high-rise buildings. The highest speeds are reserved for local end-to-end connections (no hollow sphere) and their primary use is for low-latency gaming and high capacity P2P (mostly piracy and/or porn).</p>
<p>From these examples and similar dynamics in Scandinavia, one can deduce that extremely high broadband speeds are enabled by population density and subsidy, but they&#8217;re mainly the result of national rivalries. The US is at a disadvantage, as we don&#8217;t really have a national rival. We don&#8217;t particularly care what they can do in Japan or Sweden or even Canada. And if the truth be known, bad weather and crappy TV programming probably creates more demand for very high speed broadband than most other factors. </p>
<p>National telecoms regulators are aware of the fact that the rationale of very high speed broadband is entertainment, not productivity or free speech.</p>
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		<title>By: Brett Glass</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2009/11/07/a-note-to-comcast-from-a-tiny-minority/comment-page-1/#comment-222556</link>
		<dc:creator>Brett Glass</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 18:42:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2009/11/07/a-note-to-comcast-from-a-tiny-minority/#comment-222556</guid>
		<description>Doc, the reason Lafayette, LA can offer very high capacities inside their network but not to the Internet is that they pay $50 per Mbps per month for Internet backbone bandwidth. (You were at Isenberg&#039;s conference when they quoted this number.) They can&#039;t resell this bandwidth below cost! Unfortunately, unless the FCC is able to free itself of the diversion of unnecessary &quot;network neutrality&quot; regulation and focus on actual problems, such as price gouging on &quot;special access&quot; lines and the middle mile, this situation will persist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doc, the reason Lafayette, LA can offer very high capacities inside their network but not to the Internet is that they pay $50 per Mbps per month for Internet backbone bandwidth. (You were at Isenberg&#8217;s conference when they quoted this number.) They can&#8217;t resell this bandwidth below cost! Unfortunately, unless the FCC is able to free itself of the diversion of unnecessary &#8220;network neutrality&#8221; regulation and focus on actual problems, such as price gouging on &#8220;special access&#8221; lines and the middle mile, this situation will persist.</p>
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		<title>By: Doc Searls</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2009/11/07/a-note-to-comcast-from-a-tiny-minority/comment-page-1/#comment-222553</link>
		<dc:creator>Doc Searls</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 17:51:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2009/11/07/a-note-to-comcast-from-a-tiny-minority/#comment-222553</guid>
		<description>Russ, I agree that &quot;government created it,&quot; but they were not alone. We have had, in many categories, usually dominated by near-monopolies, what Bob Franskton calls &quot;the regulatorium,&quot; and others call &quot;regulatory capture.&quot; The result is all kinds of weirdness, ranging from more regulation based on failing capture, and captors of varying power complaining about more regulation of a &quot;free market&quot; that defies the term. I&#039;m still trying to get my head around it all, and I probably never will. 

To me what that requires is calling attentions to ironies such as the one I posted above, and otherwise trying to listen with an open mind to everybody who clearly knows more than I do about lots of stuff, which includes everybody in this comment thread.

FWIW, in Santa Barbara the poles are publicly owned, but I see no sign, in spite of strong efforts by locals (including myself), that fiber will ever be run even close to homes. So regulation still requires that all pole-based service to be &quot;undergrounded&quot; (their verbed noun) must be &quot;buried&quot; in a long concrete trench the depth of a grave, so copper phone and cable TV services maintain pole-standard distances from each other under the ground -- when in a less complicated future world (like the ones being built, both privately and publicly, in other municipalities), a shallower trench for electrical service plus conduit for fiber, would make more sense.

I actually don&#039;t live in Cambridge, but in an adjacent town that decided, wisely, that the best solution was to let every competitor burden the poles with whatever they liked. The result is ugly poles and wiring and a relative paradise of fairly open market competition. The competitors could be a LOT more clueful, but the result is a predictable increase in choice over what a monopoly or duopoly would provide.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Russ, I agree that &#8220;government created it,&#8221; but they were not alone. We have had, in many categories, usually dominated by near-monopolies, what Bob Franskton calls &#8220;the regulatorium,&#8221; and others call &#8220;regulatory capture.&#8221; The result is all kinds of weirdness, ranging from more regulation based on failing capture, and captors of varying power complaining about more regulation of a &#8220;free market&#8221; that defies the term. I&#8217;m still trying to get my head around it all, and I probably never will. </p>
<p>To me what that requires is calling attentions to ironies such as the one I posted above, and otherwise trying to listen with an open mind to everybody who clearly knows more than I do about lots of stuff, which includes everybody in this comment thread.</p>
<p>FWIW, in Santa Barbara the poles are publicly owned, but I see no sign, in spite of strong efforts by locals (including myself), that fiber will ever be run even close to homes. So regulation still requires that all pole-based service to be &#8220;undergrounded&#8221; (their verbed noun) must be &#8220;buried&#8221; in a long concrete trench the depth of a grave, so copper phone and cable TV services maintain pole-standard distances from each other under the ground &#8212; when in a less complicated future world (like the ones being built, both privately and publicly, in other municipalities), a shallower trench for electrical service plus conduit for fiber, would make more sense.</p>
<p>I actually don&#8217;t live in Cambridge, but in an adjacent town that decided, wisely, that the best solution was to let every competitor burden the poles with whatever they liked. The result is ugly poles and wiring and a relative paradise of fairly open market competition. The competitors could be a LOT more clueful, but the result is a predictable increase in choice over what a monopoly or duopoly would provide.</p>
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		<title>By: Doc Searls</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2009/11/07/a-note-to-comcast-from-a-tiny-minority/comment-page-1/#comment-222549</link>
		<dc:creator>Doc Searls</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 17:29:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2009/11/07/a-note-to-comcast-from-a-tiny-minority/#comment-222549</guid>
		<description>Richard, what kinds of speeds, latencies and other variables did you experience in Korea? Not a trick question, just curious.

I also think it&#039;s interesting (and consistent with your point) that some providers (e.g. Lafayette, Louisiana&#039;s -- I&#039;d point to it, but it comes up with annoying music) offers &quot;100 Mbps Peer‐to‐Peer Community Intranet,&quot; and lower speeds otherwise: a difference between one local net and The Internet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Richard, what kinds of speeds, latencies and other variables did you experience in Korea? Not a trick question, just curious.</p>
<p>I also think it&#8217;s interesting (and consistent with your point) that some providers (e.g. Lafayette, Louisiana&#8217;s &#8212; I&#8217;d point to it, but it comes up with annoying music) offers &#8220;100 Mbps Peer‐to‐Peer Community Intranet,&#8221; and lower speeds otherwise: a difference between one local net and The Internet.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Bennett</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2009/11/07/a-note-to-comcast-from-a-tiny-minority/comment-page-1/#comment-222485</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Bennett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 08:25:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2009/11/07/a-note-to-comcast-from-a-tiny-minority/#comment-222485</guid>
		<description>Hong Kong is a city of high-rise buildings where it&#039;s cheap to pull fiber and easy to advertise ridiculous (local) speeds. Access to content outside HK is at the mercy of undersea cables, so all that bandwidth does for you is get you to the bottleneck faster. I&#039;ve done ping and traceroute tests from Korea and found the same thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hong Kong is a city of high-rise buildings where it&#8217;s cheap to pull fiber and easy to advertise ridiculous (local) speeds. Access to content outside HK is at the mercy of undersea cables, so all that bandwidth does for you is get you to the bottleneck faster. I&#8217;ve done ping and traceroute tests from Korea and found the same thing.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Bennett</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2009/11/07/a-note-to-comcast-from-a-tiny-minority/comment-page-1/#comment-222484</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Bennett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 08:22:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2009/11/07/a-note-to-comcast-from-a-tiny-minority/#comment-222484</guid>
		<description>Sorry Russell, but I know exactly what I&#039;m talking about. 

It doesn&#039;t matter whether your first mile is symmetrical or not, the structure of the Internet does not support fully symmetrical usage end-to-end. In order to access the Internet - you know, that big, sprawling, world-wide network - you need to get to an Internet Exchange Point, and the endpoint you want to access has to get to one too. While there&#039;s a mesh between well-connected IXPs, the connections between the edge of the first mile network and the IXP are a series of aggregation and disaggregation points. Aggregation is taking many lines down to one, and disaggregation is the reverse. Tell me how we do that with equal size pipes without creating congestion on the aggregated links or with unequal pipes without creating congestion on thr disaggregated links.

Hint: over-provisioning is under-provisioning from another point of view.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry Russell, but I know exactly what I&#8217;m talking about. </p>
<p>It doesn&#8217;t matter whether your first mile is symmetrical or not, the structure of the Internet does not support fully symmetrical usage end-to-end. In order to access the Internet &#8211; you know, that big, sprawling, world-wide network &#8211; you need to get to an Internet Exchange Point, and the endpoint you want to access has to get to one too. While there&#8217;s a mesh between well-connected IXPs, the connections between the edge of the first mile network and the IXP are a series of aggregation and disaggregation points. Aggregation is taking many lines down to one, and disaggregation is the reverse. Tell me how we do that with equal size pipes without creating congestion on the aggregated links or with unequal pipes without creating congestion on thr disaggregated links.</p>
<p>Hint: over-provisioning is under-provisioning from another point of view.</p>
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		<title>By: Brett Glass</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2009/11/07/a-note-to-comcast-from-a-tiny-minority/comment-page-1/#comment-222448</link>
		<dc:creator>Brett Glass</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 04:23:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2009/11/07/a-note-to-comcast-from-a-tiny-minority/#comment-222448</guid>
		<description>If one is &quot;trafficking&quot; in products that require high bandwidth to transmit, the best solution by far is to rent space in a server farm. Getting the same kind of capacity to every individual home, when most people don&#039;t need it, can cost a lot of money and wouldn&#039;t be a good investment for the carrier.

As for competition: it exists even in very small towns like the one I live in, which has at least 10 facilities-based providers and dozens of non-facilities-based ones. But admittedly, there is one thing competition won&#039;t do: carriers won&#039;t compete to lose money on customers. Bandwidth is not free; spectrum isn&#039;t free; fiber isn&#039;t free; copper isn&#039;t free. Competition will keep the price fair, but we will all still have to pay our freight.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If one is &#8220;trafficking&#8221; in products that require high bandwidth to transmit, the best solution by far is to rent space in a server farm. Getting the same kind of capacity to every individual home, when most people don&#8217;t need it, can cost a lot of money and wouldn&#8217;t be a good investment for the carrier.</p>
<p>As for competition: it exists even in very small towns like the one I live in, which has at least 10 facilities-based providers and dozens of non-facilities-based ones. But admittedly, there is one thing competition won&#8217;t do: carriers won&#8217;t compete to lose money on customers. Bandwidth is not free; spectrum isn&#8217;t free; fiber isn&#8217;t free; copper isn&#8217;t free. Competition will keep the price fair, but we will all still have to pay our freight.</p>
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		<title>By: Michelle Murgi, Verizon FiOS</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2009/11/07/a-note-to-comcast-from-a-tiny-minority/comment-page-1/#comment-222435</link>
		<dc:creator>Michelle Murgi, Verizon FiOS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 03:07:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2009/11/07/a-note-to-comcast-from-a-tiny-minority/#comment-222435</guid>
		<description>Agree with Andrew, &quot;the fact that anyone is even asking for better up speed should be a sign more is needed&quot;...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agree with Andrew, &#8220;the fact that anyone is even asking for better up speed should be a sign more is needed&#8221;&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Trey Sensor</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2009/11/07/a-note-to-comcast-from-a-tiny-minority/comment-page-1/#comment-222390</link>
		<dc:creator>Trey Sensor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 19:38:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2009/11/07/a-note-to-comcast-from-a-tiny-minority/#comment-222390</guid>
		<description>Not sure why someone would need 100mb for home use but if there is a need for it then Comcast or other internet service providers should make it affordable so people can get it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not sure why someone would need 100mb for home use but if there is a need for it then Comcast or other internet service providers should make it affordable so people can get it.</p>
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