<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	xmlns:creativeCommons="http://backend.userland.com/creativeCommonsRssModule"
	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: What and who are we?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2012/04/29/what-and-who-are-we/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2012/04/29/what-and-who-are-we/</link>
	<description>Same old blog, brand new place</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 21 May 2013 09:58:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Blob &#187; When did Disabled become Handicapped?</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2012/04/29/what-and-who-are-we/comment-page-1/#comment-297993</link>
		<dc:creator>Blob &#187; When did Disabled become Handicapped?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2012 11:47:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/?p=4919#comment-297993</guid>
		<description>[...] on by the discovery of Google&#8217;s ngram utility whilst reading this post by Doc Searls, I tried a query using the words disabled and [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] on by the discovery of Google&#8217;s ngram utility whilst reading this post by Doc Searls, I tried a query using the words disabled and [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Doc Searls</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2012/04/29/what-and-who-are-we/comment-page-1/#comment-297309</link>
		<dc:creator>Doc Searls</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 May 2012 17:14:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/?p=4919#comment-297309</guid>
		<description>Good point, Jucurile. I suspect your sense of timing is correct about what happened when and why, at least in the broad sense. 

I should make clear at this point that what we need is not to get people to stop using one word and start using another, but to understand more clearly what the differences are, why we have them, and how they keep us from thinking more deeply about what both words mean and how they work.

And also, as Alan says, how both have commercial meanings -- and that we are not always operating in a commercial context. Nor do we wish only to be commercial beings. Our lives are larger than that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good point, Jucurile. I suspect your sense of timing is correct about what happened when and why, at least in the broad sense. </p>
<p>I should make clear at this point that what we need is not to get people to stop using one word and start using another, but to understand more clearly what the differences are, why we have them, and how they keep us from thinking more deeply about what both words mean and how they work.</p>
<p>And also, as Alan says, how both have commercial meanings &#8212; and that we are not always operating in a commercial context. Nor do we wish only to be commercial beings. Our lives are larger than that.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jocurile Simon</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2012/04/29/what-and-who-are-we/comment-page-1/#comment-297045</link>
		<dc:creator>Jocurile Simon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 May 2012 11:29:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/?p=4919#comment-297045</guid>
		<description>I think that the society has two words used as one and only those that do the marketing bit in a store/organization use the real meaning of both of this words.
 But I think that there is a purpose behind the decline and rise of that graph and that can be found in how companies work:

 First, there weren&#039;t so many companies and everyone wanted to keep people coming back (the customers - a term that, in my opinion  gives more respect to the buyer) so they spoiled a lot of them, now companies work on bulk and they are starting to disregard their clients although they are the ones that keep them alive and so the customer became known as the consumer</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that the society has two words used as one and only those that do the marketing bit in a store/organization use the real meaning of both of this words.<br />
 But I think that there is a purpose behind the decline and rise of that graph and that can be found in how companies work:</p>
<p> First, there weren&#8217;t so many companies and everyone wanted to keep people coming back (the customers &#8211; a term that, in my opinion  gives more respect to the buyer) so they spoiled a lot of them, now companies work on bulk and they are starting to disregard their clients although they are the ones that keep them alive and so the customer became known as the consumer</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Weekly List Bookmarks (weekly) &#124; Eccentric Eclectica @ ToddSuomela.com</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2012/04/29/what-and-who-are-we/comment-page-1/#comment-295495</link>
		<dc:creator>Weekly List Bookmarks (weekly) &#124; Eccentric Eclectica @ ToddSuomela.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 May 2012 00:58:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/?p=4919#comment-295495</guid>
		<description>[...] Doc Searls Weblog · What and who are we? [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Doc Searls Weblog · What and who are we? [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Doc Searls Weblog &#183; Book week</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2012/04/29/what-and-who-are-we/comment-page-1/#comment-295199</link>
		<dc:creator>Doc Searls Weblog &#183; Book week</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2012 15:25:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/?p=4919#comment-295199</guid>
		<description>[...] Not unless their consumers become customers. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Not unless their consumers become customers. [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Kevin Cox</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2012/04/29/what-and-who-are-we/comment-page-1/#comment-295082</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Cox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2012 03:08:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/?p=4919#comment-295082</guid>
		<description>The main issue is who has access to your data. Some vendors are going to continue to try to keep data about each of us from each of us. In complex systems, systems behavior is driven by the rules embedded in the exchange of information between components of the system. Change the rules of exchange and the system changes. To change the bias in the system from making us consumers not customers all that has to happen is for consumers to be given access to the data held about them by vendors. The system will adjust itself as this is achieved vendor by vendor. Start with vendors who already try to do this. Trader Joe perhaps?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The main issue is who has access to your data. Some vendors are going to continue to try to keep data about each of us from each of us. In complex systems, systems behavior is driven by the rules embedded in the exchange of information between components of the system. Change the rules of exchange and the system changes. To change the bias in the system from making us consumers not customers all that has to happen is for consumers to be given access to the data held about them by vendors. The system will adjust itself as this is achieved vendor by vendor. Start with vendors who already try to do this. Trader Joe perhaps?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: alan herrell</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2012/04/29/what-and-who-are-we/comment-page-1/#comment-294232</link>
		<dc:creator>alan herrell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Apr 2012 14:47:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/?p=4919#comment-294232</guid>
		<description>“If it’s free, then you’re the product,”

A better analogy for this would be the poker meme.

&#039;&#039;If you look around the table and can&#039;t spot the sucker, than you are the sucker.&#039;&#039; 

In the case of the so called &quot;Social Networks&quot;, your definition of customer is a little short. Hunters would be a bit closer to the mark. 

Consumers are targets with internet connections. 

I would like to make the argument that there is a parity in the relationship between the users of the web and these networks, but it falls down as soon as the tracking of our activities becomes known. It is not necessary to use these sites in a lot of cases, as links and beacons are proliferated on other sites and tracking continues.

The argument that this is not malware, but merely marketing data, is bullshit in my view. History tracking is no different than keystroke logging, or user name password theft. The idea that they should be happy just visiting their sites instead of thieving from us like an electronic TSA strip search, genital grab shows how far the web has been corrupted by marketeers. 

The standard disclaimer by websites that they are pure as the driven snow, and it is those third party sites who pay them money are to blame is also bullshit, because this is not passive information, but aggressive theft and privacy violation. Because at the end of the day, this information’s value is not to enrich your experience on the web, but is all about spending the least amount of money to sell you shit you can probably do without.

The worst part of this is that folks are doing it to themselves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“If it’s free, then you’re the product,”</p>
<p>A better analogy for this would be the poker meme.</p>
<p>&#8221;If you look around the table and can&#8217;t spot the sucker, than you are the sucker.&#8221; </p>
<p>In the case of the so called &#8220;Social Networks&#8221;, your definition of customer is a little short. Hunters would be a bit closer to the mark. </p>
<p>Consumers are targets with internet connections. </p>
<p>I would like to make the argument that there is a parity in the relationship between the users of the web and these networks, but it falls down as soon as the tracking of our activities becomes known. It is not necessary to use these sites in a lot of cases, as links and beacons are proliferated on other sites and tracking continues.</p>
<p>The argument that this is not malware, but merely marketing data, is bullshit in my view. History tracking is no different than keystroke logging, or user name password theft. The idea that they should be happy just visiting their sites instead of thieving from us like an electronic TSA strip search, genital grab shows how far the web has been corrupted by marketeers. </p>
<p>The standard disclaimer by websites that they are pure as the driven snow, and it is those third party sites who pay them money are to blame is also bullshit, because this is not passive information, but aggressive theft and privacy violation. Because at the end of the day, this information’s value is not to enrich your experience on the web, but is all about spending the least amount of money to sell you shit you can probably do without.</p>
<p>The worst part of this is that folks are doing it to themselves.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Doc Searls</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2012/04/29/what-and-who-are-we/comment-page-1/#comment-294210</link>
		<dc:creator>Doc Searls</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Apr 2012 12:59:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/?p=4919#comment-294210</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Alan, Stephen and James.

What matters is less what we call things than that distinctions are made.

I worked in commercial broadcasting, directly or indirectly, for many years, during which I watched station after station, network after network, suffer the same problem that now afflicts Google, Facebook and every other enterprise on the Web for which those who use the service, and those who pay for it, are different populations. The former tend, over and over again, to get subordinated, disrespected, out outright screwed (it differs from one case to the next) — for the simple reason that the company is not financially accountable to them.

Maybe &quot;users vs. customers&quot; is a better distinction than &quot;consumers vs. customers.&quot; I lean toward the latter. But I also have to acknowledge that &quot;consumer&quot; is a far less degraded term in Europe than it is in the U.S.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Alan, Stephen and James.</p>
<p>What matters is less what we call things than that distinctions are made.</p>
<p>I worked in commercial broadcasting, directly or indirectly, for many years, during which I watched station after station, network after network, suffer the same problem that now afflicts Google, Facebook and every other enterprise on the Web for which those who use the service, and those who pay for it, are different populations. The former tend, over and over again, to get subordinated, disrespected, out outright screwed (it differs from one case to the next) — for the simple reason that the company is not financially accountable to them.</p>
<p>Maybe &#8220;users vs. customers&#8221; is a better distinction than &#8220;consumers vs. customers.&#8221; I lean toward the latter. But I also have to acknowledge that &#8220;consumer&#8221; is a far less degraded term in Europe than it is in the U.S.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: James Pasquale</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2012/04/29/what-and-who-are-we/comment-page-1/#comment-294200</link>
		<dc:creator>James Pasquale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Apr 2012 12:18:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/?p=4919#comment-294200</guid>
		<description>Customer Driven and Lovin IT!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Customer Driven and Lovin IT!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Stephen Wilson</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2012/04/29/what-and-who-are-we/comment-page-1/#comment-294152</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Wilson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Apr 2012 07:02:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/?p=4919#comment-294152</guid>
		<description>Very interesting post, thanks. It seems like a fresh look at context.  I feel context gets lip service a lot of the time in identity discussions. The empirical difficulties we see in federated identity programs tells us that identity is even more context dependent than we might think.  I&#039;ll give some more thought before responding in more detail.
But a quick note about the word &quot;customer&quot;. It&#039;s prevalence shot up long before the Internet. I think it coincided with newfangled service oriented thinking and the management school driven fashion for seeing everything through the supply chain lens. As in the idea that doctors have customers not patients. The craziest instance I&#039;ve seen was a brochure for a police fingerprinting system that described the scanning of &quot;customers&quot;. Hang on! Apprehended villains are not &quot;customers&quot; of the police! If we have to use the term in this context then let&#039;s agree the cops&#039; customers are the victims of crime!
So I&#039;m afraid there is a degree of artificiality in the use of the words.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very interesting post, thanks. It seems like a fresh look at context.  I feel context gets lip service a lot of the time in identity discussions. The empirical difficulties we see in federated identity programs tells us that identity is even more context dependent than we might think.  I&#8217;ll give some more thought before responding in more detail.<br />
But a quick note about the word &#8220;customer&#8221;. It&#8217;s prevalence shot up long before the Internet. I think it coincided with newfangled service oriented thinking and the management school driven fashion for seeing everything through the supply chain lens. As in the idea that doctors have customers not patients. The craziest instance I&#8217;ve seen was a brochure for a police fingerprinting system that described the scanning of &#8220;customers&#8221;. Hang on! Apprehended villains are not &#8220;customers&#8221; of the police! If we have to use the term in this context then let&#8217;s agree the cops&#8217; customers are the victims of crime!<br />
So I&#8217;m afraid there is a degree of artificiality in the use of the words.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
