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	<title>Comments on: the allure of HSA&#8217;s &#8220;dandelion clocks&#8220;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/ethicalesq/2008/12/18/the-allure-of-hsas-dandelion-clocks/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/ethicalesq/2008/12/18/the-allure-of-hsas-dandelion-clocks/</link>
	<description>breathless punditry and one-breath poetry with David Giacalone</description>
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		<title>By: David Giacalone</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/ethicalesq/2008/12/18/the-allure-of-hsas-dandelion-clocks/comment-page-1/#comment-212211</link>
		<dc:creator>David Giacalone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Dec 2008 20:33:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/ethicalesq/?p=10399#comment-212211</guid>
		<description>Thank you for your kind words, Merrill.  I enjoyed your &quot;rake/mint&quot; haiku in Dandelion Clocks.  

f/k/a doesn&#039;t have &quot;members.&quot;  Over the past five years, I have occasionally invited haiku poets who have an extensive body of published work that I admire to become an Honored Guest Poet -- which really means I&#039;ve asked for permission to post their past and future poems here, offering them a forum that mostly attracts persons not previously aware of real haiku. 

For a couple of years, I wrote a post every day and included poems by an Honored Guest or two (and something from dagosan). That allowed me to feature each Honored Guest about once a month. I&#039;ve slowed down a bit the past two years.

There are, of course, far too many fine haiku poets for me to attempt to follow them all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for your kind words, Merrill.  I enjoyed your &#8220;rake/mint&#8221; haiku in Dandelion Clocks.  </p>
<p>f/k/a doesn&#8217;t have &#8220;members.&#8221;  Over the past five years, I have occasionally invited haiku poets who have an extensive body of published work that I admire to become an Honored Guest Poet &#8212; which really means I&#8217;ve asked for permission to post their past and future poems here, offering them a forum that mostly attracts persons not previously aware of real haiku. </p>
<p>For a couple of years, I wrote a post every day and included poems by an Honored Guest or two (and something from dagosan). That allowed me to feature each Honored Guest about once a month. I&#8217;ve slowed down a bit the past two years.</p>
<p>There are, of course, far too many fine haiku poets for me to attempt to follow them all.</p>
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		<title>By: Merrill Ann Gonzales</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/ethicalesq/2008/12/18/the-allure-of-hsas-dandelion-clocks/comment-page-1/#comment-212203</link>
		<dc:creator>Merrill Ann Gonzales</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Dec 2008 19:45:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/ethicalesq/?p=10399#comment-212203</guid>
		<description>Fantastic..
   Dandelion Clocks has been well
received by all...and I especially 
love the&quot;Quick Definition of Haiku&quot; as it is difficult in this 
area to explain just what it is 
I do.   
           Thanks for the info.  
                      Merrill
P&gt;S&gt; How does one join f/k/a</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fantastic..<br />
   Dandelion Clocks has been well<br />
received by all&#8230;and I especially<br />
love the&#8221;Quick Definition of Haiku&#8221; as it is difficult in this<br />
area to explain just what it is<br />
I do.<br />
           Thanks for the info.<br />
                      Merrill<br />
P&gt;S&gt; How does one join f/k/a</p>
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		<title>By: ed markowski</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/ethicalesq/2008/12/18/the-allure-of-hsas-dandelion-clocks/comment-page-1/#comment-211855</link>
		<dc:creator>ed markowski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Dec 2008 03:52:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/ethicalesq/?p=10399#comment-211855</guid>
		<description>reading the poems taken from dandelion clocks reminded me of why yvonne &amp; i presented fish in love best anthology in the 07 mildred k. book contes. 

props &amp; bows to roberta and ellen for another stellar job of editing.

ed markowski</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>reading the poems taken from dandelion clocks reminded me of why yvonne &amp; i presented fish in love best anthology in the 07 mildred k. book contes. </p>
<p>props &amp; bows to roberta and ellen for another stellar job of editing.</p>
<p>ed markowski</p>
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		<title>By: David Giacalone</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/ethicalesq/2008/12/18/the-allure-of-hsas-dandelion-clocks/comment-page-1/#comment-211817</link>
		<dc:creator>David Giacalone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Dec 2008 22:29:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/ethicalesq/?p=10399#comment-211817</guid>
		<description>Many thanks for taking the time to offer a thoughtful &quot;rant,&quot; Denis.  Please come back often with more of your insights and opinions. 

There is a difference between proclaiming an orthodoxy and attempting to describe a genre that has a long tradition. If poets (and editors) will indeed decide what the contours of the haiku genre is, they need to be humble in the face of that tradition, and respect the expectations of readers.  At some point, the poets, critics and editors might want to consider creating a new genre, rather than insisting on pushing the envelope of the existing genre until it rips open and no longer has any recognizable shape.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Many thanks for taking the time to offer a thoughtful &#8220;rant,&#8221; Denis.  Please come back often with more of your insights and opinions. </p>
<p>There is a difference between proclaiming an orthodoxy and attempting to describe a genre that has a long tradition. If poets (and editors) will indeed decide what the contours of the haiku genre is, they need to be humble in the face of that tradition, and respect the expectations of readers.  At some point, the poets, critics and editors might want to consider creating a new genre, rather than insisting on pushing the envelope of the existing genre until it rips open and no longer has any recognizable shape.</p>
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		<title>By: Denis M. Garrison</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/ethicalesq/2008/12/18/the-allure-of-hsas-dandelion-clocks/comment-page-1/#comment-211810</link>
		<dc:creator>Denis M. Garrison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Dec 2008 21:37:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/ethicalesq/?p=10399#comment-211810</guid>
		<description>One characteristic of haiku that I find attractive, in contradistinction to the overall tenor of western formal and informal verse, is that it is suggestive. While western poetry (broad generalization alert!) either tells a narrative (in epic and dramatic poetry) and sings a song (lyric poetry) that is meant to be understood correctly (even if the correct meaning is surreal, fantastical, or otherwise deeply personal), the haiku simply whispers: See this. 

The haiku poet, from inspiration to manuscript, steps back from projecting self and puts the images of perception in front of the reader for the reader&#039;s own inspiration and interpretation. The more successful the haikuist is in showing only the seminal imagery, the more the haikuist becomes transparent to the reader. This is the magic of haiku: reading the briefest of verses and having one&#039;s mind and heart opened intuitively in response to the imagery. 

There is something of a zero-sum game aspect to the equation of [imagery:poet] in haiku. Every syllable spent on the poet is lost from the imagery. It is ineluctable.

It is a commonplace to say that the readers of haiku &quot;complete the poem.&quot; And, it is true. Concomitantly, the reader of haiku is the sole arbiter of its success. The customer is always right! This is a far cry from the general tenor of western verse in which correctly understanding a poem is greatly valued. 

As we all know well, the study of haiku is the work of a lifetime. There is much to know, if one would write haiku well. There are a broad variety of opinions on various aspects of the art, held passionately by some. The community seems to always be striving for orthodoxy: what is right? what is true?; but for haiku in English, orthodoxy is chimerical. Haiku in English is in the early stages of becoming; orthodoxy will come, eventually, from the pens of poets, not from the analyses of critics. Poetic practice will, with generations of use, produce orthodoxy; not the fiats of even the greatest experts can substitute for the verse itself. In such a climate, to suggest that critics and commenters upon haiku in English hew to some orthodoxy, to some agreed use of terms of art, to someone&#039;s standards of terminology, is just too much. The art of haiku in English is happening now and all voices commenting upon it should speak freely.

I very much enjoy f/k/a for the fresh ideas and opinions expressed here. Thank you for allowing me my rant. 

best wishes,
Denis</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One characteristic of haiku that I find attractive, in contradistinction to the overall tenor of western formal and informal verse, is that it is suggestive. While western poetry (broad generalization alert!) either tells a narrative (in epic and dramatic poetry) and sings a song (lyric poetry) that is meant to be understood correctly (even if the correct meaning is surreal, fantastical, or otherwise deeply personal), the haiku simply whispers: See this. </p>
<p>The haiku poet, from inspiration to manuscript, steps back from projecting self and puts the images of perception in front of the reader for the reader&#8217;s own inspiration and interpretation. The more successful the haikuist is in showing only the seminal imagery, the more the haikuist becomes transparent to the reader. This is the magic of haiku: reading the briefest of verses and having one&#8217;s mind and heart opened intuitively in response to the imagery. </p>
<p>There is something of a zero-sum game aspect to the equation of [imagery:poet] in haiku. Every syllable spent on the poet is lost from the imagery. It is ineluctable.</p>
<p>It is a commonplace to say that the readers of haiku &#8220;complete the poem.&#8221; And, it is true. Concomitantly, the reader of haiku is the sole arbiter of its success. The customer is always right! This is a far cry from the general tenor of western verse in which correctly understanding a poem is greatly valued. </p>
<p>As we all know well, the study of haiku is the work of a lifetime. There is much to know, if one would write haiku well. There are a broad variety of opinions on various aspects of the art, held passionately by some. The community seems to always be striving for orthodoxy: what is right? what is true?; but for haiku in English, orthodoxy is chimerical. Haiku in English is in the early stages of becoming; orthodoxy will come, eventually, from the pens of poets, not from the analyses of critics. Poetic practice will, with generations of use, produce orthodoxy; not the fiats of even the greatest experts can substitute for the verse itself. In such a climate, to suggest that critics and commenters upon haiku in English hew to some orthodoxy, to some agreed use of terms of art, to someone&#8217;s standards of terminology, is just too much. The art of haiku in English is happening now and all voices commenting upon it should speak freely.</p>
<p>I very much enjoy f/k/a for the fresh ideas and opinions expressed here. Thank you for allowing me my rant. </p>
<p>best wishes,<br />
Denis</p>
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		<title>By: David Giacalone</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/ethicalesq/2008/12/18/the-allure-of-hsas-dandelion-clocks/comment-page-1/#comment-211774</link>
		<dc:creator>David Giacalone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Dec 2008 16:45:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/ethicalesq/?p=10399#comment-211774</guid>
		<description>Thank you, Roberta, your sentiments mean a lot.  That would be a very good title, because I do not want to wake up some day and have to say &quot;that&#039;s the stuff that was formerly known as haiku.&quot;  Meanwhile, I&#039;m not likely to compile or write a book on haiku theory.  Spending too much time doing so would surely detract from my personal enjoyment of haiku.

By the way, thanks are in order for you and Ellen for taking on the oft-thankless task of editing the HSA Members&#039; Anthology.  You&#039;ve done us proud again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you, Roberta, your sentiments mean a lot.  That would be a very good title, because I do not want to wake up some day and have to say &#8220;that&#8217;s the stuff that was formerly known as haiku.&#8221;  Meanwhile, I&#8217;m not likely to compile or write a book on haiku theory.  Spending too much time doing so would surely detract from my personal enjoyment of haiku.</p>
<p>By the way, thanks are in order for you and Ellen for taking on the oft-thankless task of editing the HSA Members&#8217; Anthology.  You&#8217;ve done us proud again.</p>
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		<title>By: Roberta Beary</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/ethicalesq/2008/12/18/the-allure-of-hsas-dandelion-clocks/comment-page-1/#comment-211768</link>
		<dc:creator>Roberta Beary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Dec 2008 15:37:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/ethicalesq/?p=10399#comment-211768</guid>
		<description>David, 
Your insights in the genre of modern haiku deserve a wider audience.  Please consider doing a book of your posts.  I would  purchase it and when I say purchase I don&#039;t mean book swap. I even have a suggested title, f/k/a haiku. 
Thank you for raising the bar a few notches and challenging us to do better.
Roberta</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David,<br />
Your insights in the genre of modern haiku deserve a wider audience.  Please consider doing a book of your posts.  I would  purchase it and when I say purchase I don&#8217;t mean book swap. I even have a suggested title, f/k/a haiku.<br />
Thank you for raising the bar a few notches and challenging us to do better.<br />
Roberta</p>
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		<title>By: David Giacalone</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/ethicalesq/2008/12/18/the-allure-of-hsas-dandelion-clocks/comment-page-1/#comment-211754</link>
		<dc:creator>David Giacalone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Dec 2008 14:35:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/ethicalesq/?p=10399#comment-211754</guid>
		<description>Hi, John, thanks for sharing your perspective and for having patience with my reluctance to go where some of my haiku heroes seem to want me to follow in the name of growth, creativity, innovation, and even democracy.  Don told us what poem he particularly liked and I responded that it&#039;s not my preferred style of haiku from the oeuvre of a poet whose work I have often praised and featured here at &lt;i&gt;f/k/a&lt;/i&gt;.    That&#039;s what people do about every other kind of literary and poetic form, and it is about time that such stated preferences be permissible concerning haiku, and that critics not be told they just don&#039;t understand the depth or artistry of the less-appreciated piece.

As a consumer of haiku, I&#039;m going to continue to state my preference both as a matter of taste and of genre quality -- and, to remind even my haiku heroes of their own &lt;a href=&quot;http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/ethicalesq/2007/06/03/too-many-tell-ems-psyku-lower-haiku-quality/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;recently stated standards&lt;/a&gt; for what makes the best haiku. The &quot;trick&quot; or gist of the best haiku is that it leads us to share the poet&#039;s insight through the use of sensory images, it doesn&#039;t tell us what that insight, travail or vision is and then ask us to appreciate its depth. 



&lt;blockquote&gt;p.s. Of course, I was not critiquing Psychodrama itself, merely haiku-like poems that embody psychodrama.  I&#039;m much more tolerant of psycho-drama in theaters (and sometimes bedrooms), than when found in haikai. &lt;/blockquote&gt;



</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, John, thanks for sharing your perspective and for having patience with my reluctance to go where some of my haiku heroes seem to want me to follow in the name of growth, creativity, innovation, and even democracy.  Don told us what poem he particularly liked and I responded that it&#8217;s not my preferred style of haiku from the oeuvre of a poet whose work I have often praised and featured here at <i>f/k/a</i>.    That&#8217;s what people do about every other kind of literary and poetic form, and it is about time that such stated preferences be permissible concerning haiku, and that critics not be told they just don&#8217;t understand the depth or artistry of the less-appreciated piece.</p>
<p>As a consumer of haiku, I&#8217;m going to continue to state my preference both as a matter of taste and of genre quality &#8212; and, to remind even my haiku heroes of their own <a href="http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/ethicalesq/2007/06/03/too-many-tell-ems-psyku-lower-haiku-quality/" rel="nofollow">recently stated standards</a> for what makes the best haiku. The &#8220;trick&#8221; or gist of the best haiku is that it leads us to share the poet&#8217;s insight through the use of sensory images, it doesn&#8217;t tell us what that insight, travail or vision is and then ask us to appreciate its depth. </p>
<blockquote><p>p.s. Of course, I was not critiquing Psychodrama itself, merely haiku-like poems that embody psychodrama.  I&#8217;m much more tolerant of psycho-drama in theaters (and sometimes bedrooms), than when found in haikai. </p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: John Stevenson</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/ethicalesq/2008/12/18/the-allure-of-hsas-dandelion-clocks/comment-page-1/#comment-211731</link>
		<dc:creator>John Stevenson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Dec 2008 11:24:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/ethicalesq/?p=10399#comment-211731</guid>
		<description>As someone who is actively involved in both the psychodrama and haiku communities, I&#039;ve always been amused by the fact that both terms are so widely misunderstood and misused. Thank you, David, for your efforts on behalf of haiku. Please give psychodrama a break. Like haiku, it has depths that are unsuspected by those who use the term lightly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As someone who is actively involved in both the psychodrama and haiku communities, I&#8217;ve always been amused by the fact that both terms are so widely misunderstood and misused. Thank you, David, for your efforts on behalf of haiku. Please give psychodrama a break. Like haiku, it has depths that are unsuspected by those who use the term lightly.</p>
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		<title>By: David Giacalone</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/ethicalesq/2008/12/18/the-allure-of-hsas-dandelion-clocks/comment-page-1/#comment-211682</link>
		<dc:creator>David Giacalone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Dec 2008 03:43:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/ethicalesq/?p=10399#comment-211682</guid>
		<description>Hi, Don, thanks for stopping to chat. George knows I&#039;m not as thrilled with psycho-drama-ku as with his customary fare.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, Don, thanks for stopping to chat. George knows I&#8217;m not as thrilled with psycho-drama-ku as with his customary fare.</p>
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		<title>By: Don</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/ethicalesq/2008/12/18/the-allure-of-hsas-dandelion-clocks/comment-page-1/#comment-211648</link>
		<dc:creator>Don</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Dec 2008 00:06:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/ethicalesq/?p=10399#comment-211648</guid>
		<description>David:

Love George Swede&#039;s &quot;Self-scrutiny&quot;
- thanks ...

Don</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David:</p>
<p>Love George Swede&#8217;s &#8220;Self-scrutiny&#8221;<br />
- thanks &#8230;</p>
<p>Don</p>
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