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	<title>Comments on: Morality and &#8220;Gamer Guilt&#8221; in Fable 2</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/games/2008/11/19/morality-and-gamer-guilt-in-fable-2/</link>
	<description>join the quest for morally deep games</description>
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		<title>By: Valuable Games &#187; Peter Molyneux on good and evil</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/games/2008/11/19/morality-and-gamer-guilt-in-fable-2/comment-page-1/#comment-375</link>
		<dc:creator>Valuable Games &#187; Peter Molyneux on good and evil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 May 2009 19:50:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/games/?p=88#comment-375</guid>
		<description>[...] Nieborg had written an excellent review of Fable 2&#8217;s moral dimensions [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Nieborg had written an excellent review of Fable 2&#8217;s moral dimensions [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Persipidus</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/games/2008/11/19/morality-and-gamer-guilt-in-fable-2/comment-page-1/#comment-334</link>
		<dc:creator>Persipidus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Mar 2009 13:08:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/games/?p=88#comment-334</guid>
		<description>I agree with Jay.  I personally would rather have a longer run-time game with more feedback then a shorter one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Jay.  I personally would rather have a longer run-time game with more feedback then a shorter one.</p>
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		<title>By: Valuable Games &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Games need new genre puzzles</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/games/2008/11/19/morality-and-gamer-guilt-in-fable-2/comment-page-1/#comment-331</link>
		<dc:creator>Valuable Games &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Games need new genre puzzles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Feb 2009 22:23:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/games/?p=88#comment-331</guid>
		<description>[...] that games are totally lacking in social physics. Fable 2 simply refines the kind of interaction found in Harvest Moon and other &#8220;village&#8221; games. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] that games are totally lacking in social physics. Fable 2 simply refines the kind of interaction found in Harvest Moon and other &#8220;village&#8221; games. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Bashers &#187; Blog &#187; De moraliteit van Fable 2 en &#8216;gamer&#160;guilt&#8217;</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/games/2008/11/19/morality-and-gamer-guilt-in-fable-2/comment-page-1/#comment-261</link>
		<dc:creator>Bashers &#187; Blog &#187; De moraliteit van Fable 2 en &#8216;gamer&#160;guilt&#8217;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Nov 2008 11:23:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/games/?p=88#comment-261</guid>
		<description>[...] is de originele analyse te lezen: Morality and &#8216;Gamer Guilt&#8217; in Fable 2. In mijn analyse ga ik specifiek in op de morele dimensie van Fable 2 en het stuk is een [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] is de originele analyse te lezen: Morality and &#8216;Gamer Guilt&#8217; in Fable 2. In mijn analyse ga ik specifiek in op de morele dimensie van Fable 2 en het stuk is een [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/games/2008/11/19/morality-and-gamer-guilt-in-fable-2/comment-page-1/#comment-260</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 17:48:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/games/?p=88#comment-260</guid>
		<description>&quot;When you walk past your first wife with your second wife, typical explorative behavior for a gamer, there is no reaction from any of them.&quot;  There is more to it than that, in my game they look at each other and argue back and forth over who&#039;s my partner.  And sometimes one will yell at me for cheating and run away from me even though she had a child with somebody outside of our lesbian marriage (stats show I&#039;ve only had sex with a stranger once, and that was protected sex very early in the game, all the rest was with my two wives, and the child has the same skin tone as my gypsy wife.)  That alone opens up some more moral choices, like do I raise the kid as my own or ignore him, treat my wife poorly, or praise her and the child believing it to be immaculate conception?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;When you walk past your first wife with your second wife, typical explorative behavior for a gamer, there is no reaction from any of them.&#8221;  There is more to it than that, in my game they look at each other and argue back and forth over who&#8217;s my partner.  And sometimes one will yell at me for cheating and run away from me even though she had a child with somebody outside of our lesbian marriage (stats show I&#8217;ve only had sex with a stranger once, and that was protected sex very early in the game, all the rest was with my two wives, and the child has the same skin tone as my gypsy wife.)  That alone opens up some more moral choices, like do I raise the kid as my own or ignore him, treat my wife poorly, or praise her and the child believing it to be immaculate conception?</p>
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		<title>By: Kotaku - The &#8216;Gamer Guilt&#8217; and Morality of Fable 2 [Game Design] &#124; Nintendo ds</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/games/2008/11/19/morality-and-gamer-guilt-in-fable-2/comment-page-1/#comment-259</link>
		<dc:creator>Kotaku - The &#8216;Gamer Guilt&#8217; and Morality of Fable 2 [Game Design] &#124; Nintendo ds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 00:51:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/games/?p=88#comment-259</guid>
		<description>[...] a nice analysis of the strengths and weaknesses of the morality system of Fable 2 and worth a read. Morality and “Gamer Guilt” in Fable 2 [Valuable [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] a nice analysis of the strengths and weaknesses of the morality system of Fable 2 and worth a read. Morality and “Gamer Guilt” in Fable 2 [Valuable [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jay</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/games/2008/11/19/morality-and-gamer-guilt-in-fable-2/comment-page-1/#comment-257</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 21:13:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/games/?p=88#comment-257</guid>
		<description>We don&#039;t need shorter games. We have plenty of games clocking in with small run-times already. The last thing we need is more encouragement to have less actual play-time with our games.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We don&#8217;t need shorter games. We have plenty of games clocking in with small run-times already. The last thing we need is more encouragement to have less actual play-time with our games.</p>
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		<title>By: The &#8216;Gamer Guilt&#8217; and Morality of Fable 2 [Game Design] &#124; the daily john</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/games/2008/11/19/morality-and-gamer-guilt-in-fable-2/comment-page-1/#comment-256</link>
		<dc:creator>The &#8216;Gamer Guilt&#8217; and Morality of Fable 2 [Game Design] &#124; the daily john</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 19:28:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/games/?p=88#comment-256</guid>
		<description>[...] Morality and “Gamer Guilt” in Fable 2 [Valuable Games] [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Morality and “Gamer Guilt” in Fable 2 [Valuable Games] [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Steven</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/games/2008/11/19/morality-and-gamer-guilt-in-fable-2/comment-page-1/#comment-255</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 18:31:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/games/?p=88#comment-255</guid>
		<description>Isn&#039;t morality in the real world pretty frustrating as well? That&#039;s what makes choices difficult in real life. It is rarely immediately clear what exactly the consequences of your choices are.

Having said that, I think the rewind-solution is the best (for a more mature audience at least). But I don&#039;t think you need to fully rewind, just explain it at the end of the game. Don&#039;t make it immediately obvious what the consequences of your actions are, but during the end-game, explain things as much as you can. This is how the most powerful games, to me, have done it. In Shadow of the Colossus (spoiler alert), it was unclear what the consequences of your actions were until the very end, where the tragedy was fleshed out. Same thing with Braid, which pulled off a similar feat in a particularly memorable and unique way. Of course, those endings didn&#039;t really change depending on player choice.

Procedural end-games have been explored in the first two Fallout&#039;s, and they worked well. But more work could probably be done in making those endings more personal to the player. If you could show the player what choices lead to what consequences, using some sort of rewind system, that could be very powerful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Isn&#8217;t morality in the real world pretty frustrating as well? That&#8217;s what makes choices difficult in real life. It is rarely immediately clear what exactly the consequences of your choices are.</p>
<p>Having said that, I think the rewind-solution is the best (for a more mature audience at least). But I don&#8217;t think you need to fully rewind, just explain it at the end of the game. Don&#8217;t make it immediately obvious what the consequences of your actions are, but during the end-game, explain things as much as you can. This is how the most powerful games, to me, have done it. In Shadow of the Colossus (spoiler alert), it was unclear what the consequences of your actions were until the very end, where the tragedy was fleshed out. Same thing with Braid, which pulled off a similar feat in a particularly memorable and unique way. Of course, those endings didn&#8217;t really change depending on player choice.</p>
<p>Procedural end-games have been explored in the first two Fallout&#8217;s, and they worked well. But more work could probably be done in making those endings more personal to the player. If you could show the player what choices lead to what consequences, using some sort of rewind system, that could be very powerful.</p>
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		<title>By: Gamespace.nl &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Blogpost on Fable 2 and morality</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/games/2008/11/19/morality-and-gamer-guilt-in-fable-2/comment-page-1/#comment-253</link>
		<dc:creator>Gamespace.nl &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Blogpost on Fable 2 and morality</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 15:46:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/games/?p=88#comment-253</guid>
		<description>[...] Click: Morality and “Gamer Guilt” in Fable 2. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Click: Morality and “Gamer Guilt” in Fable 2. [...]</p>
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