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	<title>Comments on: Thoughts on Jonathan Zittrain&#8217;s &#8220;Generative Internet&#8221;</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2006/05/25/thoughts-on-jonathan-zittrains-generative-internet/</link>
	<description>Information, Law, and the Law of Information</description>
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		<title>By: Info/Law &#187; Zittrain Warns of the Cloud</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2006/05/25/thoughts-on-jonathan-zittrains-generative-internet/comment-page-1/#comment-92927</link>
		<dc:creator>Info/Law &#187; Zittrain Warns of the Cloud</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 17:34:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2006/05/25/thoughts-on-jonathan-zittrains-genera#comment-92927</guid>
		<description>[...] you think about info/law very much, none of this is quite new. And as I have said before about Zittrain&#8217;s work, I think he is too pessimistic about the certainty of lockdown (after [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] you think about info/law very much, none of this is quite new. And as I have said before about Zittrain&#8217;s work, I think he is too pessimistic about the certainty of lockdown (after [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Richard</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2006/05/25/thoughts-on-jonathan-zittrains-generative-internet/comment-page-1/#comment-89055</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 May 2009 15:03:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2006/05/25/thoughts-on-jonathan-zittrains-genera#comment-89055</guid>
		<description>Everytime i come back here I&#039;m reminded why I added your site to my favourites:)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Everytime i come back here I&#8217;m reminded why I added your site to my favourites:)</p>
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		<title>By: Info/Law &#187; Hackers, Badware, and Google</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2006/05/25/thoughts-on-jonathan-zittrains-generative-internet/comment-page-1/#comment-6641</link>
		<dc:creator>Info/Law &#187; Hackers, Badware, and Google</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Mar 2007 17:20:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2006/05/25/thoughts-on-jonathan-zittrains-genera#comment-6641</guid>
		<description>[...] Ethan Zuckerman has a fantastic post up about Google&#8217;s response to scams by hackers who hijack other peoples&#8217; blogs and wikis: it lists the link with the warning message, &#8220;This site may harm your computer.&#8221; They do so based on analysis by the Berkman Center&#8217;s rapidly growing &#8220;Stop Badware&#8221; project, which analyzes malicious code on the web. This project is an attempt to use &#8220;code&#8221; instead of &#8220;law&#8221;, a la Larry Lessig, as a means of preventing a massive badware problem. No surprise that Berkmanite Jonathan Zittrain, who worries about just such a system meltdown and its pernicious ripple effects in law, business models, and individual behavior, is a founder of Stop Badware and a booster of similar code-based responses. (Zittrain&#8217;s important article about the internet&#8217;s &#8220;generativity&#8221; and therefore vulnerability is here; I posted a response here). [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Ethan Zuckerman has a fantastic post up about Google&#8217;s response to scams by hackers who hijack other peoples&#8217; blogs and wikis: it lists the link with the warning message, &#8220;This site may harm your computer.&#8221; They do so based on analysis by the Berkman Center&#8217;s rapidly growing &#8220;Stop Badware&#8221; project, which analyzes malicious code on the web. This project is an attempt to use &#8220;code&#8221; instead of &#8220;law&#8221;, a la Larry Lessig, as a means of preventing a massive badware problem. No surprise that Berkmanite Jonathan Zittrain, who worries about just such a system meltdown and its pernicious ripple effects in law, business models, and individual behavior, is a founder of Stop Badware and a booster of similar code-based responses. (Zittrain&#8217;s important article about the internet&#8217;s &#8220;generativity&#8221; and therefore vulnerability is here; I posted a response here). [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Info/Law &#187; The Thoughtless Embrace of &#8220;Accountability&#8221;</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2006/05/25/thoughts-on-jonathan-zittrains-generative-internet/comment-page-1/#comment-1108</link>
		<dc:creator>Info/Law &#187; The Thoughtless Embrace of &#8220;Accountability&#8221;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Nov 2006 20:30:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2006/05/25/thoughts-on-jonathan-zittrains-genera#comment-1108</guid>
		<description>[...] The story (worth reading despite the serious objection I am about to discuss) reviews various economic and technological approaches for dealing with the problem, particularly captchas and various automated filtering approaches such as Akismet. Author Mann quotes observers like David Sifry of Technorati and WordPress (and Akismet) developer Matt Mullenweg, who (1) acknowledge that there will be a bit of a technological &#8220;arms race&#8221; against the sploggers but (2) consider that effort to be the price we pay for an open, distributed, interactive, user-centered network &#8212; for, in other words, a &#8220;generative internet&#8221; (an important concept from Jonathan Zittrain that I have discussed here, here, and here). [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The story (worth reading despite the serious objection I am about to discuss) reviews various economic and technological approaches for dealing with the problem, particularly captchas and various automated filtering approaches such as Akismet. Author Mann quotes observers like David Sifry of Technorati and WordPress (and Akismet) developer Matt Mullenweg, who (1) acknowledge that there will be a bit of a technological &#8220;arms race&#8221; against the sploggers but (2) consider that effort to be the price we pay for an open, distributed, interactive, user-centered network &#8212; for, in other words, a &#8220;generative internet&#8221; (an important concept from Jonathan Zittrain that I have discussed here, here, and here). [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Info/Law &#187; Groklaw Discussion on &#8220;The Generative Internet&#8221;</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2006/05/25/thoughts-on-jonathan-zittrains-generative-internet/comment-page-1/#comment-685</link>
		<dc:creator>Info/Law &#187; Groklaw Discussion on &#8220;The Generative Internet&#8221;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Aug 2006 22:22:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2006/05/25/thoughts-on-jonathan-zittrains-genera#comment-685</guid>
		<description>[...] Definitely worth checking out.  I wrote a blog post about the Harvard article when it first appeared, and I think that pretty much sums up my own views.  I notice that the FAQ, when summarizing his key ideas about how to preserve generativity, leaves out greater authentication of users. That was one of the strategies touched on in the Harvard article that made me nervous.  Structural changes that make anonymity impossible threaten what I see as possibly an even greater virtue of the internet than its generativity: a widely available (though not universal) capacity to engage in efficient and effective one-to-many communication.  JZ, are you changing your mind on that one? [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Definitely worth checking out.  I wrote a blog post about the Harvard article when it first appeared, and I think that pretty much sums up my own views.  I notice that the FAQ, when summarizing his key ideas about how to preserve generativity, leaves out greater authentication of users. That was one of the strategies touched on in the Harvard article that made me nervous.  Structural changes that make anonymity impossible threaten what I see as possibly an even greater virtue of the internet than its generativity: a widely available (though not universal) capacity to engage in efficient and effective one-to-many communication.  JZ, are you changing your mind on that one? [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Joseph Savirimuthu</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2006/05/25/thoughts-on-jonathan-zittrains-generative-internet/comment-page-1/#comment-106</link>
		<dc:creator>Joseph Savirimuthu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 May 2006 16:23:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2006/05/25/thoughts-on-jonathan-zittrains-genera#comment-106</guid>
		<description>I like your point on (1). Some broad brushstrokes:

&quot;Is generativity really the prime value?&quot;
The question &quot;Why&quot; generativity sharpens the mind on the values issue not so much on the priority of values question but the &quot;trade-off&quot; between the process (*generativity*) and the alternative (let us call it the hybrid regulatory model, that embraces the four modalities). Here we come back to the old Hobbesian nightmare about governance...

&quot;Here’s one possible alternative: maybe the most important value of the internet is the widespread ability to engage in one-to-many communication. To complicate it further, maybe the prime value is the capacity to do so anonymously. It is easy to imagine design choices that would promote generativity at the expense of these communicative virtues, and vice versa.&quot;
True - I see where you are coming from. But if one asks hypothetically at the time of the creation of the  Internet (sometime circa Al Gore&#039;s famous pronouncement), what the Bill of Rights for the Internet should be - I find that I encounter not dissimilar problems set out in the Federalist Papers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like your point on (1). Some broad brushstrokes:</p>
<p>&#8220;Is generativity really the prime value?&#8221;<br />
The question &#8220;Why&#8221; generativity sharpens the mind on the values issue not so much on the priority of values question but the &#8220;trade-off&#8221; between the process (*generativity*) and the alternative (let us call it the hybrid regulatory model, that embraces the four modalities). Here we come back to the old Hobbesian nightmare about governance&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8220;Here’s one possible alternative: maybe the most important value of the internet is the widespread ability to engage in one-to-many communication. To complicate it further, maybe the prime value is the capacity to do so anonymously. It is easy to imagine design choices that would promote generativity at the expense of these communicative virtues, and vice versa.&#8221;<br />
True &#8211; I see where you are coming from. But if one asks hypothetically at the time of the creation of the  Internet (sometime circa Al Gore&#8217;s famous pronouncement), what the Bill of Rights for the Internet should be &#8211; I find that I encounter not dissimilar problems set out in the Federalist Papers.</p>
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		<title>By: Zeroday 01100100011010010 &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Zittrain, Brazil and other random musings</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2006/05/25/thoughts-on-jonathan-zittrains-generative-internet/comment-page-1/#comment-104</link>
		<dc:creator>Zeroday 01100100011010010 &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Zittrain, Brazil and other random musings</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 May 2006 12:47:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2006/05/25/thoughts-on-jonathan-zittrains-genera#comment-104</guid>
		<description>[...] http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2006/05/25/thoughts-on-jonathan-zittrains-generative-internet/ [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] <a href="http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2006/05/25/thoughts-on-jonathan-zittrains-generative-internet/" rel="nofollow">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2006/05/25/thoughts-on-jonathan-zittrains-generative-internet/</a> [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Luis Villa</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2006/05/25/thoughts-on-jonathan-zittrains-generative-internet/comment-page-1/#comment-86</link>
		<dc:creator>Luis Villa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 May 2006 03:17:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2006/05/25/thoughts-on-jonathan-zittrains-genera#comment-86</guid>
		<description>On (2), two things. First, I think one has to be fairly pessimistic about reaction to a digital Pearl Harbor or digital Black Plague. Our government likes to intervene heavy-handedly in technology, especially when security is concerned or business is threatened, and even if the government doesn&#039;t, the pressure on Microsoft to do something would be incredible. To think we could get through such an event without extreme intervention seems incredibly optimistic. 

That said, and this is my second point, it isn&#039;t clear to me that the solutions JZ points to (primarily compromising network neutrality to somehow improve security) would be particularly better for generativity than a Tivo-ized client, mainly because that initial compromise would put us on a very slippery slope. If you have only a weak moral/ethical basis to defend a non-discriminatory network, then on what basis do you defend a non-discriminatory client? (Or to put it another way: pragmatically, how is generativity a strong principle that gives us bright-ish policy lines? I can&#039;t see it being very useful in practice.)

On (1), I do agree that it is a weakness of the paper that it doesn&#039;t strongly consider alternatives. However, communication mostly feels like a means, not an end, to me. If cheap/easy communication were a (the?) prime value, wouldn&#039;t cheap/easy AT&amp;T POTS have been just as good? The &#039;net&#039;s generativity meant that we could transform cheap/easy communication via modems into first email, then the web, then VOIP, now myspace, and who knows what next. Sure, all of these are &#039;just&#039; communication, and likely communication in some way is always going to be the killer app of the internet, but the &#039;net is new and different because of its ability to constantly generate new and better ways of communicating. That happens because of JZ&#039;s prime value- generativity.

(And writing that paragraph makes me realize again what a painfully awkward word generativity is. Oh well.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On (2), two things. First, I think one has to be fairly pessimistic about reaction to a digital Pearl Harbor or digital Black Plague. Our government likes to intervene heavy-handedly in technology, especially when security is concerned or business is threatened, and even if the government doesn&#8217;t, the pressure on Microsoft to do something would be incredible. To think we could get through such an event without extreme intervention seems incredibly optimistic. </p>
<p>That said, and this is my second point, it isn&#8217;t clear to me that the solutions JZ points to (primarily compromising network neutrality to somehow improve security) would be particularly better for generativity than a Tivo-ized client, mainly because that initial compromise would put us on a very slippery slope. If you have only a weak moral/ethical basis to defend a non-discriminatory network, then on what basis do you defend a non-discriminatory client? (Or to put it another way: pragmatically, how is generativity a strong principle that gives us bright-ish policy lines? I can&#8217;t see it being very useful in practice.)</p>
<p>On (1), I do agree that it is a weakness of the paper that it doesn&#8217;t strongly consider alternatives. However, communication mostly feels like a means, not an end, to me. If cheap/easy communication were a (the?) prime value, wouldn&#8217;t cheap/easy AT&amp;T POTS have been just as good? The &#8216;net&#8217;s generativity meant that we could transform cheap/easy communication via modems into first email, then the web, then VOIP, now myspace, and who knows what next. Sure, all of these are &#8216;just&#8217; communication, and likely communication in some way is always going to be the killer app of the internet, but the &#8216;net is new and different because of its ability to constantly generate new and better ways of communicating. That happens because of JZ&#8217;s prime value- generativity.</p>
<p>(And writing that paragraph makes me realize again what a painfully awkward word generativity is. Oh well.)</p>
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