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	<title>Comments on: Digital Is Forever</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2006/10/17/digital-is-forever/</link>
	<description>Information, Law, and the Law of Information</description>
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		<title>By: Info/Law &#187; Finnish Employers Cannot Google Applicants</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2006/10/17/digital-is-forever/comment-page-1/#comment-1325</link>
		<dc:creator>Info/Law &#187; Finnish Employers Cannot Google Applicants</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Nov 2006 15:38:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2006/10/17/digital-is-forever/#comment-1325</guid>
		<description>[...] There has been tons of discussion, on this blog and more generally, about the great degree to which our private information is now available on the internet to anyone who cares to look (on our blog alone, see e.g. Tim&#8217;s thoughts here and here, mine here, and Derek&#8217;s here). As a result of this phenomenon, prospective employers now use search engines to learn things about job applicants that cannot be discerned from the usual routine of cover letter, resume, interview, and references. The general American reaction is that this is a new reality of the internet age, which may persuade people to display a little less of themselves online, may expand employers&#8217; tolerance of certain off-hours conduct, and may create demand for services that claim to clean up one&#8217;s undesirable information found online. (Probably all three&#8230;) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] There has been tons of discussion, on this blog and more generally, about the great degree to which our private information is now available on the internet to anyone who cares to look (on our blog alone, see e.g. Tim&#8217;s thoughts here and here, mine here, and Derek&#8217;s here). As a result of this phenomenon, prospective employers now use search engines to learn things about job applicants that cannot be discerned from the usual routine of cover letter, resume, interview, and references. The general American reaction is that this is a new reality of the internet age, which may persuade people to display a little less of themselves online, may expand employers&#8217; tolerance of certain off-hours conduct, and may create demand for services that claim to clean up one&#8217;s undesirable information found online. (Probably all three&#8230;) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Austin Criminal Defense Lawyer</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2006/10/17/digital-is-forever/comment-page-1/#comment-925</link>
		<dc:creator>Austin Criminal Defense Lawyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Oct 2006 05:29:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2006/10/17/digital-is-forever/#comment-925</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Legal Blogs Discuss Expunctions...&lt;/strong&gt;

I was not alone in commenting on the recent New York Times story about expunctions.&#160;Here are some other posts about the same article from around the legal blogosphere.Michael Pinard&#8217;s post focuses primarily on housing and employment problems...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Legal Blogs Discuss Expunctions&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>I was not alone in commenting on the recent New York Times story about expunctions.&nbsp;Here are some other posts about the same article from around the legal blogosphere.Michael Pinard&rsquo;s post focuses primarily on housing and employment problems&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Info/Law &#187; Open Access Law: Two Cheers for Northwestern</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2006/10/17/digital-is-forever/comment-page-1/#comment-915</link>
		<dc:creator>Info/Law &#187; Open Access Law: Two Cheers for Northwestern</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Oct 2006 16:48:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2006/10/17/digital-is-forever/#comment-915</guid>
		<description>[...] This is really wonderful news, particularly the part about bringing the Review&#8217;s older printed material into the modern era of digital permanence. But I still think that Larry Solum&#8217;s &#8220;three cheers for the Northwestern University Law Review&#8221; is too generous by a factor of one cheer. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] This is really wonderful news, particularly the part about bringing the Review&#8217;s older printed material into the modern era of digital permanence. But I still think that Larry Solum&#8217;s &#8220;three cheers for the Northwestern University Law Review&#8221; is too generous by a factor of one cheer. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Weymar</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2006/10/17/digital-is-forever/comment-page-1/#comment-907</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Weymar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Oct 2006 20:13:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2006/10/17/digital-is-forever/#comment-907</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;We all need the space to be foolish largely unobserved and unremembered&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Well, as someone who has literally &lt;i&gt;just&lt;/i&gt;, smile, posted a comment to a blog entry elsewhere in cyberspace that I&#039;ve already realized is &lt;i&gt;quite&lt;/i&gt; foolish, I couldn&#039;t sympathize more!

Interestingly, however, this forces me to confront (at least one example of) my own particular foolishness, and challenges me to accept it, or to change it, or to deal with it in some way. I can assure you that this is uncomfortable, but I am not at all sure that it&#039;s a Bad Thing &lt;i&gt;per se&lt;/i&gt;.

Moreover, you can imagine a world in which people have a very different relationship to their own foolishness than they do today. This might be a very Good Thing.

I am imagining greater tolerance of, and empathy for (at least minor) indiscretions, and/or lapses of judgment. This would obviously mitigate the urge toward inhibition that you fear. It would also, arguably, be a step toward a more integrated sense of self, &lt;i&gt;and&lt;/i&gt; sense of the world in which we live.

I definitely(!) don&#039;t consider your concerns unfounded; but I do see these dynamics as being quite complex - and often running in multiple directions at the same time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;We all need the space to be foolish largely unobserved and unremembered&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Well, as someone who has literally <i>just</i>, smile, posted a comment to a blog entry elsewhere in cyberspace that I&#8217;ve already realized is <i>quite</i> foolish, I couldn&#8217;t sympathize more!</p>
<p>Interestingly, however, this forces me to confront (at least one example of) my own particular foolishness, and challenges me to accept it, or to change it, or to deal with it in some way. I can assure you that this is uncomfortable, but I am not at all sure that it&#8217;s a Bad Thing <i>per se</i>.</p>
<p>Moreover, you can imagine a world in which people have a very different relationship to their own foolishness than they do today. This might be a very Good Thing.</p>
<p>I am imagining greater tolerance of, and empathy for (at least minor) indiscretions, and/or lapses of judgment. This would obviously mitigate the urge toward inhibition that you fear. It would also, arguably, be a step toward a more integrated sense of self, <i>and</i> sense of the world in which we live.</p>
<p>I definitely(!) don&#8217;t consider your concerns unfounded; but I do see these dynamics as being quite complex &#8211; and often running in multiple directions at the same time.</p>
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		<title>By: Info/Law &#187; The Internet as Family Time Machine</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2006/10/17/digital-is-forever/comment-page-1/#comment-904</link>
		<dc:creator>Info/Law &#187; The Internet as Family Time Machine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Oct 2006 13:50:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2006/10/17/digital-is-forever/#comment-904</guid>
		<description>[...] Of course, this works better if your mother was a household name. But now all of us leave behind a digital trail that can be sniffed in the future. All of us on Info/Law worry about the costs of this permanent trail, most recently Tim&#8217;s musings here (the privacy tag has more). Surely this kind of virtual attic, storing not just our own mementoes of our lives but others&#8217; intersecting stories as well, is one of the benefits. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Of course, this works better if your mother was a household name. But now all of us leave behind a digital trail that can be sniffed in the future. All of us on Info/Law worry about the costs of this permanent trail, most recently Tim&#8217;s musings here (the privacy tag has more). Surely this kind of virtual attic, storing not just our own mementoes of our lives but others&#8217; intersecting stories as well, is one of the benefits. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: John Palfrey &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Armstrong: Digital Natives, beware&#8230;</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2006/10/17/digital-is-forever/comment-page-1/#comment-903</link>
		<dc:creator>John Palfrey &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Armstrong: Digital Natives, beware&#8230;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Oct 2006 00:33:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2006/10/17/digital-is-forever/#comment-903</guid>
		<description>[...] Tim Armstrong, former Berkman fellow and now a prof at the U of C, writes: &#8220;&#8230; the permanence of networked information has costs, too, which (like the benefits) are only beginning to be explored. Members of the generation just behind mine, who have grown up reflexively creating and posting information online, are learning that digital is forever — if you’re a job applicant (or even a camp counselor), anything that has ever been written by (or about) you online is, at least potentially, still there. (Back in my day, we used goofy aliases to hide our online identities; but I gather that practice has been fading.) Once information is online, it turns out, it may becomes quite hard ever to get it back offline again — the Wayback Machine preserves old web pages; Google Groups archives Usenet posts; and it’s only a matter of time before somebody comes up with the magic bullet that automatically archives IRC and IM conversations and makes them searchable. Even your deleted e-mails aren’t necessarily gone; they may still exist on backup tapes where law enforcement authorities can get them. The durability of digital content raises problems that touch on both informational security and individual privacy.&#8221; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Tim Armstrong, former Berkman fellow and now a prof at the U of C, writes: &#8220;&#8230; the permanence of networked information has costs, too, which (like the benefits) are only beginning to be explored. Members of the generation just behind mine, who have grown up reflexively creating and posting information online, are learning that digital is forever — if you’re a job applicant (or even a camp counselor), anything that has ever been written by (or about) you online is, at least potentially, still there. (Back in my day, we used goofy aliases to hide our online identities; but I gather that practice has been fading.) Once information is online, it turns out, it may becomes quite hard ever to get it back offline again — the Wayback Machine preserves old web pages; Google Groups archives Usenet posts; and it’s only a matter of time before somebody comes up with the magic bullet that automatically archives IRC and IM conversations and makes them searchable. Even your deleted e-mails aren’t necessarily gone; they may still exist on backup tapes where law enforcement authorities can get them. The durability of digital content raises problems that touch on both informational security and individual privacy.&#8221; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: William McGeveran</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2006/10/17/digital-is-forever/comment-page-1/#comment-902</link>
		<dc:creator>William McGeveran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Oct 2006 19:57:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2006/10/17/digital-is-forever/#comment-902</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;The end game here is clear: “Reasonable expectations,” as they are understood and interpreted in our court rooms, are going to change.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

I think you are certainly right about the cultural shift and it dismays me somewhat.  Tim&#039;s &quot;younger generation&quot; understands at most in an intellectual way that &quot;digital is forever.&quot;  But they do not &quot;get&quot; the true consequences of how permanent accessibility of small indiscretion or foolishness changes &lt;b&gt;everything&lt;/b&gt;.  We all need the space to be foolish largely unobserved and unremembered -- &lt;b&gt;especially&lt;/b&gt; as teenagers.

My bigger fear is that the real-world consequences of &quot;digital is forever,&quot; as they come into focus, will trigger a different cultural reaction down the line: instead of embracing a modicum of sensible discretion in communication and data exchange, might we swing the pendulum too far the other way to an inhibited discourse that thwarts the promise of much of &quot;Web 2.0&quot;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;The end game here is clear: “Reasonable expectations,” as they are understood and interpreted in our court rooms, are going to change.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>I think you are certainly right about the cultural shift and it dismays me somewhat.  Tim&#8217;s &#8220;younger generation&#8221; understands at most in an intellectual way that &#8220;digital is forever.&#8221;  But they do not &#8220;get&#8221; the true consequences of how permanent accessibility of small indiscretion or foolishness changes <b>everything</b>.  We all need the space to be foolish largely unobserved and unremembered &#8212; <b>especially</b> as teenagers.</p>
<p>My bigger fear is that the real-world consequences of &#8220;digital is forever,&#8221; as they come into focus, will trigger a different cultural reaction down the line: instead of embracing a modicum of sensible discretion in communication and data exchange, might we swing the pendulum too far the other way to an inhibited discourse that thwarts the promise of much of &#8220;Web 2.0&#8243;?</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Weymar</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2006/10/17/digital-is-forever/comment-page-1/#comment-901</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Weymar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Oct 2006 05:47:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2006/10/17/digital-is-forever/#comment-901</guid>
		<description>Tim,

Re &quot;Web 2.0-type services:&quot; The &quot;social&quot; aspects of Web 2.0 are worthy of consideration in this discussion. To wit, the upside of Web 2.0 lies not only in ready, platform-independent access to your data, as you point out, but also in the new avenues for communication and connection this software opens up.

del.icio.us/tag/YourInterestHere, e.g., is an interesting alternative to search because it returns a) information you wouldn&#039;t necessarily have known was out there, to search for, and b) information bookmarked [i.e., effectively &quot;recommended by&quot;] the particular userbase in question (in this case, del.icio.us). And the list of intriguing aspects to social software goes on (but not here! smile)

Also, re the &quot;Members of the generation just behind [yours - and mine!], who have grown up reflexively creating and posting information online, [and who] are learning that digital is forever,&quot; and the &quot;problems [of] informational security and individual privacy&quot; this is raising:

It&#039;s important to remember - and arguably even to highlight, and emphasize - that we are talking not &lt;i&gt;only&lt;/i&gt; about a change in the durability and accessibility of certain types of information, but also about a cultural shift in ideas about, and expectations of informational security, and individual privacy. The end game here is clear: &quot;Reasonable expectations,&quot; as they are understood and interpreted in our court rooms, are going to change. I assume that this is already happening in ways that I am unaware of; but I see it happening in a much bigger way &quot;real soon now....&quot;

Matthew</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tim,</p>
<p>Re &#8220;Web 2.0-type services:&#8221; The &#8220;social&#8221; aspects of Web 2.0 are worthy of consideration in this discussion. To wit, the upside of Web 2.0 lies not only in ready, platform-independent access to your data, as you point out, but also in the new avenues for communication and connection this software opens up.</p>
<p>&nbsp;<a href="http://del.icio.us" title="http://del.icio.<br />
" target="_blank">del.icio.us</a> e.g., is an interesting alternative to search because it returns a) information you wouldn&#8217;t necessarily have known was out there, to search for, and b) information bookmarked [i.e., effectively "recommended by"] the particular userbase in question (in this case,&nbsp;<a href="http://del.icio.us" title="http://del.icio. " target="_blank">del.icio.us</a>). And the list of intriguing aspects to social software goes on (but not here! smile)</p>
<p>Also, re the &#8220;Members of the generation just behind [yours - and mine!], who have grown up reflexively creating and posting information online, [and who] are learning that digital is forever,&#8221; and the &#8220;problems [of] informational security and individual privacy&#8221; this is raising:</p>
<p>It&#8217;s important to remember &#8211; and arguably even to highlight, and emphasize &#8211; that we are talking not <i>only</i> about a change in the durability and accessibility of certain types of information, but also about a cultural shift in ideas about, and expectations of informational security, and individual privacy. The end game here is clear: &#8220;Reasonable expectations,&#8221; as they are understood and interpreted in our court rooms, are going to change. I assume that this is already happening in ways that I am unaware of; but I see it happening in a much bigger way &#8220;real soon now&#8230;.&#8221;</p>
<p>Matthew</p>
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