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	<title>Comments on: Zune stinks? Blame Grokster.</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2006/11/26/zune-stinks-blame-grokster/</link>
	<description>Information, Law, and the Law of Information</description>
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		<title>By: Info/Law &#187; In Defense of Zune</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2006/11/26/zune-stinks-blame-grokster/comment-page-1/#comment-1598</link>
		<dc:creator>Info/Law &#187; In Defense of Zune</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Dec 2006 19:04:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2006/11/26/zune-stinks-blame-grokster/#comment-1598</guid>
		<description>[...] The reaction (&#8221;turkey&#8230; disaster&#8221;) to Microsoft&#8217;s Zune player has been almost uniformly caustic. (Tim rightly points out that Apple&#8217;s iPod, with which the Zune is contrasted unfavorably in most cases, was developed in an entirely different legal universe.) There are a lot of problems with the Zune, most prominently that PlaysForSure really means PlaysForNow. Apple&#8217;s FairPlay DRM may be annoying, but at least it&#8217;s consistent. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The reaction (&#8221;turkey&#8230; disaster&#8221;) to Microsoft&#8217;s Zune player has been almost uniformly caustic. (Tim rightly points out that Apple&#8217;s iPod, with which the Zune is contrasted unfavorably in most cases, was developed in an entirely different legal universe.) There are a lot of problems with the Zune, most prominently that PlaysForSure really means PlaysForNow. Apple&#8217;s FairPlay DRM may be annoying, but at least it&#8217;s consistent. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Chris S</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2006/11/26/zune-stinks-blame-grokster/comment-page-1/#comment-1509</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Nov 2006 22:54:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2006/11/26/zune-stinks-blame-grokster/#comment-1509</guid>
		<description>A world of zune type devices!  My inner geek screams in pain!

There has to be some creative way to deal with the issue of the intent to infringe raised in Grokster.  Is it possible to differentiate devices like the iPod which don&#039;t foster infringement in quite the same way as Grokster (software for trading music vs. a device for playing music)?  

There has to be a creative way around Grokster...

Interesting thoughts on the factors dictating the development of the zune.  The cynic in me says that MS just got cozy with Hollywood/RIAA because it was easier than providing what the consumers wanted.  After all, little in MS&#039;s history has shown that it really cares about the end consumer anyhow ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A world of zune type devices!  My inner geek screams in pain!</p>
<p>There has to be some creative way to deal with the issue of the intent to infringe raised in Grokster.  Is it possible to differentiate devices like the iPod which don&#8217;t foster infringement in quite the same way as Grokster (software for trading music vs. a device for playing music)?  </p>
<p>There has to be a creative way around Grokster&#8230;</p>
<p>Interesting thoughts on the factors dictating the development of the zune.  The cynic in me says that MS just got cozy with Hollywood/RIAA because it was easier than providing what the consumers wanted.  After all, little in MS&#8217;s history has shown that it really cares about the end consumer anyhow <img src='http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Tim Armstrong</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2006/11/26/zune-stinks-blame-grokster/comment-page-1/#comment-1506</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Armstrong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Nov 2006 11:47:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2006/11/26/zune-stinks-blame-grokster/#comment-1506</guid>
		<description>Well, I&#039;m not privy to the terms of the contracts Apple negotiated to produce and market the iPod, but it would have been pretty poor lawyering not to include provisions allowing extensions and enhancements to the same exact product line.  So while it&#039;s undoubtedly true that &lt;em&gt;Grokster&lt;/em&gt; changed the rules for everybody, not just for Microsoft, I suspect that Apple is still living under essentially the regime it negotiated earlier.

Even given the change in the law, too, let&#039;s not forget that Apple is the 800-lb gorilla (the Microsoft, if you will) in this market; the large market share of the iTunes store gives them the kind of clout vis-a-vis Hollywood that a new entrant wouldn&#039;t wield.

Finally, as a practical matter, the industry&#039;s lawyer took pains to reassure the Justices during oral argument in &lt;em&gt;Grokster&lt;/em&gt; that their arguments wouldn&#039;t make it unlawful to sell the iPod -- not necessarily a concession with legally binding force (and indeed, the industry has been &lt;a rel=&quot;nofollow&quot; href=&quot;http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tka/2006/02/16#a78&quot;&gt;running away from&lt;/a&gt; some of its own statements in &lt;em&gt;Grokster&lt;/em&gt; ever since), but it gives the iPod a unique status in PR terms, if nothing else, as a product officially &quot;blessed&quot; by the industry (and, indeed, the Court, based on Justice Souter&#039;s questions during argument -- after all, he ended up writing the opinion).

All of which is just to say that &lt;em&gt;Grokster&lt;/em&gt; really does leave Microsoft and other new entrants in a qualitatively different position from incumbent players in this market.  Would a company with more backbone than MS have found a way around &lt;em&gt;Grokster&lt;/em&gt;?  Perhaps.  But Andy Ihnatko doesn&#039;t even recognize the dispositive issue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I&#8217;m not privy to the terms of the contracts Apple negotiated to produce and market the iPod, but it would have been pretty poor lawyering not to include provisions allowing extensions and enhancements to the same exact product line.  So while it&#8217;s undoubtedly true that <em>Grokster</em> changed the rules for everybody, not just for Microsoft, I suspect that Apple is still living under essentially the regime it negotiated earlier.</p>
<p>Even given the change in the law, too, let&#8217;s not forget that Apple is the 800-lb gorilla (the Microsoft, if you will) in this market; the large market share of the iTunes store gives them the kind of clout vis-a-vis Hollywood that a new entrant wouldn&#8217;t wield.</p>
<p>Finally, as a practical matter, the industry&#8217;s lawyer took pains to reassure the Justices during oral argument in <em>Grokster</em> that their arguments wouldn&#8217;t make it unlawful to sell the iPod &#8212; not necessarily a concession with legally binding force (and indeed, the industry has been <a rel="nofollow" href="http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tka/2006/02/16#a78">running away from</a> some of its own statements in <em>Grokster</em> ever since), but it gives the iPod a unique status in PR terms, if nothing else, as a product officially &#8220;blessed&#8221; by the industry (and, indeed, the Court, based on Justice Souter&#8217;s questions during argument &#8212; after all, he ended up writing the opinion).</p>
<p>All of which is just to say that <em>Grokster</em> really does leave Microsoft and other new entrants in a qualitatively different position from incumbent players in this market.  Would a company with more backbone than MS have found a way around <em>Grokster</em>?  Perhaps.  But Andy Ihnatko doesn&#8217;t even recognize the dispositive issue.</p>
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		<title>By: John Armstrong</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2006/11/26/zune-stinks-blame-grokster/comment-page-1/#comment-1505</link>
		<dc:creator>John Armstrong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Nov 2006 18:06:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2006/11/26/zune-stinks-blame-grokster/#comment-1505</guid>
		<description>Something seems fishy here.  You seem to be saying that Microsoft was constrained because it developed the Zune after &lt;i&gt;Grokster&lt;/i&gt;, and Apple wasn&#039;t constrained because it developed the Zune before.

(a) why aren&#039;t new iPod models similarly constrained?  The new shuffle (no, that&#039;s not a tie clip) and likely a few other current models were mostly designed post-&lt;i&gt;Grokster&lt;/i&gt;.  There have been a number of firmware updates released since the decision.  Why are these not hobbled to avoid the eye of &lt;strike&gt;Sauron&lt;/strike&gt;the RIAA?

(b) for that matter, why doesn&#039;t the danger extend to products designed &lt;em&gt;before&lt;/em&gt; the decision.  Is the iPod somehow grandfathered in since it was around before the decision?

I think it&#039;s clear that the iPod is in just as much danger as the Zune is.  Mr. Ihnatko may have left out the explicit legalities, but Apple &lt;em&gt;not&lt;/em&gt; hobbling its product and even introducing new features shows (to me) that they believe this is a fight worth having if it comes to it.  They&#039;re not morons blithely continuing on their path.  They know which way the &lt;em&gt;Grokster&lt;/em&gt; wind blows, and are ready to stand and fight if it comes to that.

Mr. Ihnatko is right: Microsoft just doesn&#039;t have that sort of spine.  What&#039;s important is not how people &lt;em&gt;should&lt;/em&gt; be able to interact with media, but their own bottom line and that of the recording industry.  The user is only important as a sucker to sell the product to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Something seems fishy here.  You seem to be saying that Microsoft was constrained because it developed the Zune after <i>Grokster</i>, and Apple wasn&#8217;t constrained because it developed the Zune before.</p>
<p>(a) why aren&#8217;t new iPod models similarly constrained?  The new shuffle (no, that&#8217;s not a tie clip) and likely a few other current models were mostly designed post-<i>Grokster</i>.  There have been a number of firmware updates released since the decision.  Why are these not hobbled to avoid the eye of <strike>Sauron</strike>the RIAA?</p>
<p>(b) for that matter, why doesn&#8217;t the danger extend to products designed <em>before</em> the decision.  Is the iPod somehow grandfathered in since it was around before the decision?</p>
<p>I think it&#8217;s clear that the iPod is in just as much danger as the Zune is.  Mr. Ihnatko may have left out the explicit legalities, but Apple <em>not</em> hobbling its product and even introducing new features shows (to me) that they believe this is a fight worth having if it comes to it.  They&#8217;re not morons blithely continuing on their path.  They know which way the <em>Grokster</em> wind blows, and are ready to stand and fight if it comes to that.</p>
<p>Mr. Ihnatko is right: Microsoft just doesn&#8217;t have that sort of spine.  What&#8217;s important is not how people <em>should</em> be able to interact with media, but their own bottom line and that of the recording industry.  The user is only important as a sucker to sell the product to.</p>
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		<title>By: Gene Riccoboni</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2006/11/26/zune-stinks-blame-grokster/comment-page-1/#comment-1504</link>
		<dc:creator>Gene Riccoboni</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Nov 2006 16:05:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2006/11/26/zune-stinks-blame-grokster/#comment-1504</guid>
		<description>Thanks much for a very well-researched and insightful piece. Although I&#039;m a trademark lawyer myself, my Zune-related blog focuses on the business issues associated with Zune (simply because I find those more interesting than the legal issues - but I&#039;m very happy to read some legal analysis from someone like you, who  obviously knows what he&#039;s talking about).

Putting aside the legal issues, from a purely business perspective, it does seem as though the MSFT/Universal deal has changed the game, entirely. And it&#039;s an almost sure bet that AAPL and the others will soon be keeping their transactional lawyers busy drafting similar, hardware-revenue-sharing arrangements with the studios and content providers.

Thanks for a great piece.

Gene from ZuneChannel.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks much for a very well-researched and insightful piece. Although I&#8217;m a trademark lawyer myself, my Zune-related blog focuses on the business issues associated with Zune (simply because I find those more interesting than the legal issues &#8211; but I&#8217;m very happy to read some legal analysis from someone like you, who  obviously knows what he&#8217;s talking about).</p>
<p>Putting aside the legal issues, from a purely business perspective, it does seem as though the MSFT/Universal deal has changed the game, entirely. And it&#8217;s an almost sure bet that AAPL and the others will soon be keeping their transactional lawyers busy drafting similar, hardware-revenue-sharing arrangements with the studios and content providers.</p>
<p>Thanks for a great piece.</p>
<p>Gene from&nbsp;<a href="http://ZuneChannel.com" title="http://ZuneChannel. " target="_blank">ZuneChannel.com</a></p>
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