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	<title>Comments on: Good Artists Copy, Great Artists Steal</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2008/01/09/good-artists-copy-great-artists-steal/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2008/01/09/good-artists-copy-great-artists-steal/</link>
	<description>Information, Law, and the Law of Information</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 21:55:50 -0500</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Recipes Cook Book Author</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2008/01/09/good-artists-copy-great-artists-steal/comment-page-1/#comment-87513</link>
		<dc:creator>Recipes Cook Book Author</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Apr 2009 18:47:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2008/01/09/good-artists-copy-great-artists-steal#comment-87513</guid>
		<description>Recipe copyright law states that ingredient lists can not be copyrighted, while directions and recipe organization (such as in a book format) are subject to copyright protection laws.  In this case I do not see an infringement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Recipe copyright law states that ingredient lists can not be copyrighted, while directions and recipe organization (such as in a book format) are subject to copyright protection laws.  In this case I do not see an infringement.</p>
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		<title>By: christine Tabora</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2008/01/09/good-artists-copy-great-artists-steal/comment-page-1/#comment-60759</link>
		<dc:creator>christine Tabora</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Aug 2008 03:19:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2008/01/09/good-artists-copy-great-artists-steal#comment-60759</guid>
		<description>My husband is an artist, he paints seascapes.   To make a long painful story short, his cousin is copying his work.  Is there anything at all that can be done?
Look at Tabora.com then RodelGonzalez.com .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My husband is an artist, he paints seascapes.   To make a long painful story short, his cousin is copying his work.  Is there anything at all that can be done?<br />
Look at&nbsp;<a href="http://Tabora.com" title="http://Tabora. " target="_blank">Tabora.com</a> then&nbsp;<a href="http://RodelGonzalez.com" title="http://RodelGonzalez. " target="_blank">RodelGonzalez.com</a> .</p>
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		<title>By: Derek Bambauer</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2008/01/09/good-artists-copy-great-artists-steal/comment-page-1/#comment-42236</link>
		<dc:creator>Derek Bambauer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jan 2008 04:06:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2008/01/09/good-artists-copy-great-artists-steal#comment-42236</guid>
		<description>I just re-read the complaint on the Smoking Gun Web site:

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2008/0107083seinfeld1.html

The copyright claims can only be described as a steaming pile of carrot puree. The complaint cites things that can&#039;t even be copyrighted - e.g., key &quot;hidden&quot; ingredients in recipes - and points to allegedly similar passages that simply don&#039;t strike me (under the &quot;ordinary observer&quot; test) as not sufficiently similar. If this survives a motion to dismiss, I&#039;d be surprised, even given the fact-based questions here.

The defamation issues are outside my zone of expertise, since I don&#039;t really understand Torts, but I think there&#039;s no way around the fact that 1) Lapine is a public figure, so NYT v. Sullivan&#039;s standard applies, and 2) Seinfeld&#039;s comments are hyperbolic opinion - no reasonable person would think that the unhappy cookbook author is actually an assassin. 

I&#039;m actually thinking of strengthening what I wrote in my original post.  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just re-read the complaint on the Smoking Gun Web site:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2008/0107083seinfeld1.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2008/0107083seinfeld1.html</a></p>
<p>The copyright claims can only be described as a steaming pile of carrot puree. The complaint cites things that can&#8217;t even be copyrighted &#8211; e.g., key &#8220;hidden&#8221; ingredients in recipes &#8211; and points to allegedly similar passages that simply don&#8217;t strike me (under the &#8220;ordinary observer&#8221; test) as not sufficiently similar. If this survives a motion to dismiss, I&#8217;d be surprised, even given the fact-based questions here.</p>
<p>The defamation issues are outside my zone of expertise, since I don&#8217;t really understand Torts, but I think there&#8217;s no way around the fact that 1) Lapine is a public figure, so NYT v. Sullivan&#8217;s standard applies, and 2) Seinfeld&#8217;s comments are hyperbolic opinion &#8211; no reasonable person would think that the unhappy cookbook author is actually an assassin. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m actually thinking of strengthening what I wrote in my original post.  <img src='http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Michael Risch</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2008/01/09/good-artists-copy-great-artists-steal/comment-page-1/#comment-41395</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Risch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jan 2008 13:17:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2008/01/09/good-artists-copy-great-artists-steal#comment-41395</guid>
		<description>So, a couple points in response:
&quot;While it may be good evidence of access and copying, it hardly serves as very strong evidence of copying of copyrightable elements of the compilation.&quot;

I agree with this, and it is what I was trying to say.  One defense here is that there was no access - these similarities seem to rebut that a lot.

I also agree that it is a relatively thin copyright, but I think the similarities are enough to argue to a jury where the publisher declined the book by Lapine.

 I would also make the &quot;breach of confidence&quot; argument in California for &quot;concept stealing&quot; if I were the plaintiff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, a couple points in response:<br />
&#8220;While it may be good evidence of access and copying, it hardly serves as very strong evidence of copying of copyrightable elements of the compilation.&#8221;</p>
<p>I agree with this, and it is what I was trying to say.  One defense here is that there was no access &#8211; these similarities seem to rebut that a lot.</p>
<p>I also agree that it is a relatively thin copyright, but I think the similarities are enough to argue to a jury where the publisher declined the book by Lapine.</p>
<p> I would also make the &#8220;breach of confidence&#8221; argument in California for &#8220;concept stealing&#8221; if I were the plaintiff.</p>
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		<title>By: Derek Bambauer</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2008/01/09/good-artists-copy-great-artists-steal/comment-page-1/#comment-41305</link>
		<dc:creator>Derek Bambauer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jan 2008 23:33:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2008/01/09/good-artists-copy-great-artists-steal#comment-41305</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m about to read the copy of the complaint.

My take remains that the copyright in the Lapine cookbook is &quot;thin&quot; - likely limited to explanatory text and, perhaps, the exact selection and arrangement of recipes. I&#039;d need to see the Seinfeld book, but I would be surprised if it was close enough to infringe. And &quot;secret ingredients&quot; might be protected by patent, but it&#039;s clearly out in terms of copyright law. Even if Seinfeld deliberately copied the recipes, with secret ingredients, from Lapine, there&#039;s still no infringement under Feist. 

But I need to read the complaint before snarking further.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m about to read the copy of the complaint.</p>
<p>My take remains that the copyright in the Lapine cookbook is &#8220;thin&#8221; &#8211; likely limited to explanatory text and, perhaps, the exact selection and arrangement of recipes. I&#8217;d need to see the Seinfeld book, but I would be surprised if it was close enough to infringe. And &#8220;secret ingredients&#8221; might be protected by patent, but it&#8217;s clearly out in terms of copyright law. Even if Seinfeld deliberately copied the recipes, with secret ingredients, from Lapine, there&#8217;s still no infringement under Feist. </p>
<p>But I need to read the complaint before snarking further.</p>
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		<title>By: David Staub</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2008/01/09/good-artists-copy-great-artists-steal/comment-page-1/#comment-41054</link>
		<dc:creator>David Staub</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2008 17:26:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2008/01/09/good-artists-copy-great-artists-steal#comment-41054</guid>
		<description>I haven&#039;t read either cookbook, but I have a couple of observations about the complaint and Michael Risch&#039;s comments.

There is no allegation that the recipes are identical, just that the &quot;secret&quot; ingredients in 11 specific recipes were the same.  I don&#039;t know how many recipes were in the cookbook, but I assume that it has many times that amount.  That certainly seems more like a coincidence than &quot;very good evidence of access and copying of the other copyrightable elements.&quot;

The bulk of the complaint focuses on similarities in concept and the use of a few common phrases in the two books.  Having five children of my own, it is not surprising that two cookbooks discussing getting children to eat healthy food would talk about &quot;begging&quot; kids to eat certain foods and the &quot;power struggle&quot; that goes on at the table.  In fact, it is hard to imagine a cookbook on the topic that would not use those terms since the premise of the book is getting kids to eat &quot;foods that kid&#039;s won&#039;t go near&quot; (which term the complaint also seems to believe is something  unique, since they lambast Seinfeld&#039;s book for using the similar term &quot;foods my kids wouldn&#039;t touch).

I wonder, do the lawyers who drafted the complaint have kids?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I haven&#8217;t read either cookbook, but I have a couple of observations about the complaint and Michael Risch&#8217;s comments.</p>
<p>There is no allegation that the recipes are identical, just that the &#8220;secret&#8221; ingredients in 11 specific recipes were the same.  I don&#8217;t know how many recipes were in the cookbook, but I assume that it has many times that amount.  That certainly seems more like a coincidence than &#8220;very good evidence of access and copying of the other copyrightable elements.&#8221;</p>
<p>The bulk of the complaint focuses on similarities in concept and the use of a few common phrases in the two books.  Having five children of my own, it is not surprising that two cookbooks discussing getting children to eat healthy food would talk about &#8220;begging&#8221; kids to eat certain foods and the &#8220;power struggle&#8221; that goes on at the table.  In fact, it is hard to imagine a cookbook on the topic that would not use those terms since the premise of the book is getting kids to eat &#8220;foods that kid&#8217;s won&#8217;t go near&#8221; (which term the complaint also seems to believe is something  unique, since they lambast Seinfeld&#8217;s book for using the similar term &#8220;foods my kids wouldn&#8217;t touch).</p>
<p>I wonder, do the lawyers who drafted the complaint have kids?</p>
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		<title>By: Scholarly Communications @ Duke &#187; But it is just so easy!</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2008/01/09/good-artists-copy-great-artists-steal/comment-page-1/#comment-41050</link>
		<dc:creator>Scholarly Communications @ Duke &#187; But it is just so easy!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2008 16:52:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2008/01/09/good-artists-copy-great-artists-steal#comment-41050</guid>
		<description>[...] best thing about this article, however, is the discussion of it, with the wonderful title &#8220;Good Artists Copy, Great Artists Steal&#8221; on the Info/Law blog. I don&#8217;t think I have the chance to point to Info/Law before, but [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] best thing about this article, however, is the discussion of it, with the wonderful title &#8220;Good Artists Copy, Great Artists Steal&#8221; on the Info/Law blog. I don&#8217;t think I have the chance to point to Info/Law before, but [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Chris S</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2008/01/09/good-artists-copy-great-artists-steal/comment-page-1/#comment-40768</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2008 14:51:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2008/01/09/good-artists-copy-great-artists-steal#comment-40768</guid>
		<description>While I agree that Derek&#039;s analysis above does neglect the question of whether or not Jessica Seinfeld&#039;s book violated the copyright in the compilation of recipes, I disagree with Michael that the &quot;1 to 1 correspondence between the “secret ingredients” iin each recipe is very good evidence of access and copying of the other copyrightable elements.&quot;  While it may be good evidence of access and copying, it hardly serves as very strong evidence of copying of copyrightable elements of the compilation.  The copyright in the compilation is in the selection and arrangement of the recipes, the copyrightable explanatory text for sections, etc.  A 1 to 1 correspondance between various veggies that were added to specific recipes is copying of unprotectable elements by itself, and even spread across many of the recipes would still be just copying of unprotectable ideas.  It begins to look more like infringement of the compilation the more recipes there are with that 1 to 1 correspondance of &quot;secret ingredients&quot; because it is at least some evidence of copying of the selection and arrangment but the better argument for infringement of the copyright in the compilation is to look at both books and see how many of the recipes are the same between the two, see how similar the grouping into chapters and sections is, etc...  Having not seen either book, I can&#039;t make that call.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I agree that Derek&#8217;s analysis above does neglect the question of whether or not Jessica Seinfeld&#8217;s book violated the copyright in the compilation of recipes, I disagree with Michael that the &#8220;1 to 1 correspondence between the “secret ingredients” iin each recipe is very good evidence of access and copying of the other copyrightable elements.&#8221;  While it may be good evidence of access and copying, it hardly serves as very strong evidence of copying of copyrightable elements of the compilation.  The copyright in the compilation is in the selection and arrangement of the recipes, the copyrightable explanatory text for sections, etc.  A 1 to 1 correspondance between various veggies that were added to specific recipes is copying of unprotectable elements by itself, and even spread across many of the recipes would still be just copying of unprotectable ideas.  It begins to look more like infringement of the compilation the more recipes there are with that 1 to 1 correspondance of &#8220;secret ingredients&#8221; because it is at least some evidence of copying of the selection and arrangment but the better argument for infringement of the copyright in the compilation is to look at both books and see how many of the recipes are the same between the two, see how similar the grouping into chapters and sections is, etc&#8230;  Having not seen either book, I can&#8217;t make that call.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Risch</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2008/01/09/good-artists-copy-great-artists-steal/comment-page-1/#comment-40747</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Risch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2008 12:47:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2008/01/09/good-artists-copy-great-artists-steal#comment-40747</guid>
		<description>The Smoking Gun has a copy of the lawsuit here:
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2008/0107083seinfeld1.html?link=rssfeed

While I think it is a tough case, I think it is far from Wacko - there is a strong &quot;structure, sequence &amp; organization&quot; argument as well as a &quot;look &amp; feel&quot; argument based on the allegations that make it look like the second cookbook is more than just an idea knock-off.  I think this is not an easy summary judgment for the defendant here.

While it is true that &quot;ideas&quot; in recipes may be copied, the striking similarity between some of the recipes, as well as the 1 to 1 correspondence between the &quot;secret ingredients&quot; iin each recipe is very good evidence of access and copying of the other copyrightable elements.  Similarly, the allegations that the Seinfeld publisher had access and acted duplicitously is pretty good if true - apparently Harper Collins told Lapine that cookbooks were losers in the market, yet a few months later came out with a cookbook that is in many ways similar to the exact cookbook it rejected.  I was surprised that Collins wasn&#039;t a named defendant.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Smoking Gun has a copy of the lawsuit here:<br />
<a href="http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2008/0107083seinfeld1.html?link=rssfeed" rel="nofollow">http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2008/0107083seinfeld1.html?link=rssfeed</a></p>
<p>While I think it is a tough case, I think it is far from Wacko &#8211; there is a strong &#8220;structure, sequence &amp; organization&#8221; argument as well as a &#8220;look &amp; feel&#8221; argument based on the allegations that make it look like the second cookbook is more than just an idea knock-off.  I think this is not an easy summary judgment for the defendant here.</p>
<p>While it is true that &#8220;ideas&#8221; in recipes may be copied, the striking similarity between some of the recipes, as well as the 1 to 1 correspondence between the &#8220;secret ingredients&#8221; iin each recipe is very good evidence of access and copying of the other copyrightable elements.  Similarly, the allegations that the Seinfeld publisher had access and acted duplicitously is pretty good if true &#8211; apparently Harper Collins told Lapine that cookbooks were losers in the market, yet a few months later came out with a cookbook that is in many ways similar to the exact cookbook it rejected.  I was surprised that Collins wasn&#8217;t a named defendant.</p>
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