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	<title>Comments on: Failed Marriages, Ugly Dogs, Copyright, and Free Speech</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2008/01/18/failed-marriages-ugly-dogs-copyright-and-free-speech/</link>
	<description>Information, Law, and the Law of Information</description>
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		<title>By: Technical-Legal Confluence News &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Legal problems when fiction resembles &#8220;real life&#8221;</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2008/01/18/failed-marriages-ugly-dogs-copyright-and-free-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-49809</link>
		<dc:creator>Technical-Legal Confluence News &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Legal problems when fiction resembles &#8220;real life&#8221;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 13:43:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2008/01/12/failed-marriages-ugly-dogs-copyright-#comment-49809</guid>
		<description>[...] There is another case in Vermont, Garrido v. Krasnansky, this a divorce proceeding, in which a judge has ordered on party to stop talking about a case online. The case is interesting because the online talk was a blog that purported to be “fiction.” I did not find a court opinion on line, but here is a blog entry from Harvard Law school on the case, here. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] There is another case in Vermont, Garrido v. Krasnansky, this a divorce proceeding, in which a judge has ordered on party to stop talking about a case online. The case is interesting because the online talk was a blog that purported to be “fiction.” I did not find a court opinion on line, but here is a blog entry from Harvard Law school on the case, here. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Derek Bambauer</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2008/01/18/failed-marriages-ugly-dogs-copyright-and-free-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-41649</link>
		<dc:creator>Derek Bambauer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jan 2008 23:08:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2008/01/12/failed-marriages-ugly-dogs-copyright-#comment-41649</guid>
		<description>Hi Mark,

Yes - you&#039;re right to press me to be clear. There are two troubling things here. One: removal of the blog postings. This seems fine to me after a hearing, but not before. There&#039;s no threat of prior restraint here since the speech has already occurred, of course, but we&#039;re normally protective of speech, and we don&#039;t suppress it unless it falls into the category of things which may be proscribed. My analysis here is that it does not, but as I&#039;ve mentioned, I am operating without a complete picture of the facts.

Two: the order not to blog further about the case. You suggest this may be run-of-the-mill. I simply don&#039;t know enough about this aspect of procedure to conclude definitively (as my point about family law tried to indicate). My suggestion, from a policy perspective, is that the normal rationales for gag orders seem absent here - it&#039;s a civil case; there&#039;s no jury; there&#039;s no risk to improper influence of the fact-finder (presumably the judge is rightly skeptical of one side&#039;s contentions); and there are no third parties with interests at stake (such as children). So, on balance, the policy arguments against a gag order seem stronger than those in favor of it. This clearly derives from our general bias in favor of speech and of its circulation, but I think that&#039;s unexceptionable in American jurisprudence.

Have I missed something on how gag orders typically work? How broadly do they apply? (Can I tell my family / therapist / friends? Can I discuss the case loudly in Starbucks? etc.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Mark,</p>
<p>Yes &#8211; you&#8217;re right to press me to be clear. There are two troubling things here. One: removal of the blog postings. This seems fine to me after a hearing, but not before. There&#8217;s no threat of prior restraint here since the speech has already occurred, of course, but we&#8217;re normally protective of speech, and we don&#8217;t suppress it unless it falls into the category of things which may be proscribed. My analysis here is that it does not, but as I&#8217;ve mentioned, I am operating without a complete picture of the facts.</p>
<p>Two: the order not to blog further about the case. You suggest this may be run-of-the-mill. I simply don&#8217;t know enough about this aspect of procedure to conclude definitively (as my point about family law tried to indicate). My suggestion, from a policy perspective, is that the normal rationales for gag orders seem absent here &#8211; it&#8217;s a civil case; there&#8217;s no jury; there&#8217;s no risk to improper influence of the fact-finder (presumably the judge is rightly skeptical of one side&#8217;s contentions); and there are no third parties with interests at stake (such as children). So, on balance, the policy arguments against a gag order seem stronger than those in favor of it. This clearly derives from our general bias in favor of speech and of its circulation, but I think that&#8217;s unexceptionable in American jurisprudence.</p>
<p>Have I missed something on how gag orders typically work? How broadly do they apply? (Can I tell my family / therapist / friends? Can I discuss the case loudly in Starbucks? etc.)</p>
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		<title>By: Mark McKenna</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2008/01/18/failed-marriages-ugly-dogs-copyright-and-free-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-41632</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark McKenna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jan 2008 21:42:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2008/01/12/failed-marriages-ugly-dogs-copyright-#comment-41632</guid>
		<description>Derek -

I agree the removal of speech has some different implications than continued speech.  But you wrote in your post:

&quot;To frame this: a judge has ordered one party to stop talking - at least online - about his case. This type of gag order seems suspect constitutionally.&quot;  

I assumed that when you were referring to the order to &quot;stop speaking,&quot; you were talking about future speech.  Isn&#039;t that the context in which it&#039;s potentially a &quot;prior&quot; restraint?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Derek -</p>
<p>I agree the removal of speech has some different implications than continued speech.  But you wrote in your post:</p>
<p>&#8220;To frame this: a judge has ordered one party to stop talking &#8211; at least online &#8211; about his case. This type of gag order seems suspect constitutionally.&#8221;  </p>
<p>I assumed that when you were referring to the order to &#8220;stop speaking,&#8221; you were talking about future speech.  Isn&#8217;t that the context in which it&#8217;s potentially a &#8220;prior&#8221; restraint?</p>
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		<title>By: Derek Bambauer</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2008/01/18/failed-marriages-ugly-dogs-copyright-and-free-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-41589</link>
		<dc:creator>Derek Bambauer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jan 2008 16:34:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2008/01/12/failed-marriages-ugly-dogs-copyright-#comment-41589</guid>
		<description>Mark, the part that bothers me is the takedown in particular; once the husband has already blogged about this, the harm (if any) has already occurred. 

I&#039;m not an expert on procedure; while gag orders seem routine, my impression was that they were calculated to maintain the status quo regarding the lawsuit - preventing jurors from being influenced and so forth. Given that this is a non-jury situation, don&#039;t those concerns disappear? (I don&#039;t know the rules for gag orders, but it strikes me that removing speech is likely more problematic than ordering parties, temporarily, to keep quiet.)

I&#039;d welcome clarification here on the procedural aspects...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark, the part that bothers me is the takedown in particular; once the husband has already blogged about this, the harm (if any) has already occurred. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not an expert on procedure; while gag orders seem routine, my impression was that they were calculated to maintain the status quo regarding the lawsuit &#8211; preventing jurors from being influenced and so forth. Given that this is a non-jury situation, don&#8217;t those concerns disappear? (I don&#8217;t know the rules for gag orders, but it strikes me that removing speech is likely more problematic than ordering parties, temporarily, to keep quiet.)</p>
<p>I&#8217;d welcome clarification here on the procedural aspects&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Mark McKenna</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2008/01/18/failed-marriages-ugly-dogs-copyright-and-free-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-41485</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark McKenna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jan 2008 01:41:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/infolaw/2008/01/12/failed-marriages-ugly-dogs-copyright-#comment-41485</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t judges issue gag orders - preventing parties from talking about an ongoing case - all the time?  Do you think they&#039;re generally suspect, or is there something about this order in particular that concerns you?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t judges issue gag orders &#8211; preventing parties from talking about an ongoing case &#8211; all the time?  Do you think they&#8217;re generally suspect, or is there something about this order in particular that concerns you?</p>
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