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What an excellent and thought provoking post! It’s enough to make me put down the computer and wander to the home library to grab a few books for more perspective on our current times.
Outstanding!
But I have come to expect that from you.
Your weblog makes me hunger to read ALL of those books.
The problem is how to reach the “masses’.
We walked with the protestors today (3/29/03) who were orderly and appeared to be intelligent sorts. There was a small “pro” group who to my eyes appeared as and actred as ruffians or near so.
I asked them if they felt so strongly why they didn’t enlist?
I also urged the others-especially the young ones to be certain to vote. The protests are for not if they don’t vote.
Peace, Syd
I like the idea of “de-otherizing” when that’s the problem, but I think it is completely inappropriate to view the current conflict (on our side anyway) as having anything to do with “otherization”. We aren’t attacking Iraq because we think the Iraqis are not human beings worthy of respect, we are attacking the government of the country out of self-defense. The majority of the population until recently had never even given Iraq a first thought let alone a second one, and if they did have them fully in mental view there would have been huge outcrys every time Saddam dumped someone in a vat of acid or shot someone for a minor offense and we probably would have been in a war to remove him and his gang a long time ago.
Sometimes “otherization” can help justify wars when they are not otherwise justifiable. In others it can prevent wars because our eyes are closed to horrors that couldn’t survive scrutiny.
If the Cambodians had not been “otherized” in the 1970’s do you think the Khmer Rouge would have gotten away with killing a quarter of the population?
Christopher Lydon .. the same Chris Lydon who, in another life, hosted of “The Connection” .. ?? If so, great to ’see you’ again! I’ve missed your presence there. If not, then you carry a superb moniker! And in the piece I just read – you seem to carry it well.
Very interesting and provoking piece. And again it shows we humans are but cyclicals: what goes around will eventually come around again.. and again .. and again .. ad nasium .. until we stumble upon the ‘right way’ to execute.
Though the most ‘intelligent’ (or at least capable) beings on the planet, we are undoubtably, as well, the ‘thickest bipodals’ on the planet!
HISTORY … learn from it or be doomed to repeat it. Hmm, seems I’ve heard this before .. yes?
Much of history is a tale of mistake and repeat. Only in a few bright spots has mankind every struck the correct note of positive influence for all others: human or otherwise. And it would seem that whenever an individual stood up to assay this condition and report to us all the need to refocus, they drew more rage than reflect. It has been quoted many times before, but the wiseman Solomon wrote, “Nothing is new under the sun.” I believe him to be correct. For I’ve practiced in many professional fields the art of contractual obligation and am of the firm opinion that there was only one contract every truly written – and ever since it’s been cut-and-paste. But, it would seem that along the way – a few important letters have been ‘lost in the cracks’. If we are survive our own ineptness, we must find those ‘letters’. It would seem they are the missing links to a realm of peace and security .. as, we do not have that now.
Superb beginning. Keep up the blog … it’s a great medium for a voice like yours.
Enjoy. And thank Dave Winer personally for the platform. His persistance, vision and the collective hard work from himself and dozens of dedicated programmers and visionaries, has provided, all of us, who share the desire to publish our expressions, this magic carpet of technology.
And who knows – maybe …just maybe … a collective voice will raise an equally collective consciousness .. that just may make a difference.
It is, after all, very worth the try.
I look forward to more from your newfound publishing voice.
Much to the neo-conservatists dismay, we may be witnessing not the consolidation of the USA as sole superpower, but the ebbing away of that status. So I am re-reading Kim (Kipling), Edward Said’s edition. “Kim” is very relevant, with its foreshadows of empire unraveling. “It is all your beastly English pride. You think no one dare conspire!” says Hurree. Incredibly reminiscent of the Bush administration’s prideful assumption that no one in Iraq dares fight.
‘Kim’ also sheds light on how Muslim cultures met the West, Russian interest in Central Asia, Afghani tribal mores, and Tibetan influence in India — all in the beforetime of 1901. Oddly illuminating to read now, even thru Kipling’s colonial lens.
One final digression: Could it be that the erosion of US influence resulting from Iraq and other Bush missteps will create a vacuum that China, the EU, Russia and the rest of Asia will each fill part of? Particularly if the US economy continues to slide. If so, Bush et.al. may inadvertantly give the US’s children the great gift of NOT being part of a superpower.
Chris, a warm welcome back! We’ve all missed your voice on the air. It’s a pleasure once again to hear your informed and original perspective on the issues that matter. Keep on bloggin’ on.
Good, good stuff! And I like your news sources. Did you see the Op-Ed in, I think, the Sunday Times that gives some heavy mention to “The Virginian”, vis a vis GWB’s misinterpretation of the cowboy ethic?
I need about seven hours catch-up with my Daddy! Maybe this weekend, avec Miranda.
I was sure that this was meant as an April fool joke but Searls seems to take it seriously. The hope that there will be no war because the neo-cons are unpopular is …. amusingly insane to be sure. “Neo-con adventurers” rolls off the tongue and probably appeals to the kind of mind that had a fondness for “running dog capitalists”. Unfortunately, since neo-cons only have existed since the early 90’s, and warfare since before agriculture, this “thought” is best served on April 1 only.
I wonder if you understand what “losing the peace” means in reality? Won’t be good for the Iraqi’s for sure. But then you guys never meant to include peace for them anyways did you? Hoping this is an April 1 joke, if only to try keep some tiny respect for Searls.
I’ve been trying to suss out how it is that you liberal folks can have such bizarre notions as a near “universal peace movement.” Your “indispensable sources” provide the best clue that I’ve come across, thus far.
In the Department of Coming Distractions…
“A Boy of the Boston School”
You are heartily invited to a talk I am giving at the Museum of Fine Arts in Boston next Wednesday evening (April 9) at 7 p.m.
The boy in the title is me. The Boston School refers to the painting orthodoxy that held firm in these parts for nearly half a century after modernism “arrived” with the Armory Show (in Boston as well as New York and Chicago) of 1913.
When the museum asked me to talk about growing up under the MFA influence, I leapt at the chance because I’d been introspecting idly for a long time on imagery and taste; on how we learn (or don’t) our expressive possibilities; how the Boston of my boyhood got so stuck in the past; and why these Sargents and many lesser Back Bay Vermeers have come to look so stylish and, yes, beautiful aftger all.
“Still Life”
The late Elizabeth Paxton–student, model and wife of William McGregor Paxton, a pillar of the Boston School–was a family friend and a woman of authority and immense fascination when we were growing up. She reemerged a couple of years ago as a star of the marvelous MFA show (and book) “A Studio of Her Own.” And I wanted especially to remember and reexamine my devotion to her.
So please come if you’re willing to let me think out loud–and toss the question to you–about the pictures in our heads.
Would you mind publishing any kind of transcript or recording of the talk? Many of us will not be able to come in person, but are certainly intrigued and would really like to know what the audience of the talk will be able to experience first hand. Please share.
Thank you…
These are some of the names I can think of for your programme – which may not be what you wanted.
Ulf Hannerz – Swedish anthropologist – author of “Transnational Connections” -and an older book “Cultural Complexity” – And also Arjun Appadurai – Author of “Modernity at Large: Cultural Dimensions of Globalization” – he is known for his piece on “Global Ethnoscapes” which is in the above mentioned book – there is another earlier and similar article he wrote in Mike Featherstone’s book on Global Culture- that was called “Disjuncture and Difference in the Global Cultural economy” – Both the above are the “global flows” people -Hannerz is at the Stockholm U and Appadurai is at U of Chicago-The Humanities Institute.
Then there is Saskia Sassen- author of the Global City – NY, London, Tokyo -cities as command centres – nodal points that control a global service economy etc. I really like her husband Richard Sennet’s work – The “Corrosion of Character” book in particular -
Am not sure if any if this is useful to you -these are bits and bobs I use for ny Global Cultures Course -hope someone can look them up for you to see if there is anything you can use to focus your programme
Right, it wold have been nice if someone would have thought to dispatch some troops to museum guard duty. Meanwhile, there are troops over at the oil ministry.
But, they didn’t. Truth is, Iraq needs oil revenue more than it does museum revenue.
This line of argument is only important to those still actively looking for reasons to oppose the war, those who believe that getting others to agree with their own individual moral code is more important than eliminating murderers and thugs.
I don’t think you’ve thought this through. That, or you’re filtering this through a distinctly biased lens.
Specifically, who do you think it was that looted and pillaged the antiquities in Baghdad? It wasn’t coalition troops. It wasn’t Shi’ite milita. It was the residents of Baghdad themselves. Clearly there isn’t enough civilization to go around and you want to blame the coalition troops because the Iraqis themselves are unable to appreciate and preserve their own heritage and instead viewed it as a way to make a quick buck.
It’s absurd to think that a more moderated culture such as exists in Western Europe and specifically in Italy would look at a regime change as an opportunity to loot its own heritage. Your analogy fails on all points.
If you want to blame anyone, blame the cultural institutions of Iraq for failing to instill a higher sense of social order and responsibility in the citizens of Iraq. Clearly they aren’t as far removed from their rapacious bedouin ancestors as many naive Americans assume. All it would have taken is a handful of concerned Iraqis or their clergy (or heaven forbid, Iraqi policemen) standing at the entrance to a couple of museums to to stave off this degenerate behavior. Ask yourself why they didn’t do that. Where were the Iraqi police? Where were the curators of the museums? their security guards? all of the other security elements of a normal society? That they collapsed instantly, abandoning all sense of order, with what appears to have been relatively minor outside pressure says a lot about the degree of social order in Iraq.
Instead, you complain that a military force in the middle of a combat zone didn’t drop everything (including humanitarian assistance and self-protection) and rush to the aid of some old clay pots. How could you possibly describe that as a rational thing for coalition forces to do? On the otherhand, the coalition went far beyond all expectations in avoiding collateral damage to religious sites and other historical and cultural locales. I’m only aware of one mosque in in the entire country that was damaged as a direct result of coalition actions. How many museums and other cultural institutions were damaged or looted by Iraqis?
What it tells me is that misinformed Americans are too quick to extrapolate their own values and social norms on to what is a distinctly non-American culture and then blame someone else when things don’t go as expected. That you assume lawlessness and destructive behavior is somehow caused by the coalition military only amplifies your misunderstanding of the social dynamics in Arab countries. Next time, you might want to ponder your own enthocentric pronouncements a little more before dispensing them in a public forum. You might come off looking a lot better informed and less impulsive. Certainly a lot less demeaning of your own culture…
This ignorant article is proof that attending Harvard does not make you intelligent.
Try comparing the Sistine Chapel with something more relevant, like the Shrine of the Imam Ali in Najaf. Oh yes, the same shrine that Iraqis were using as cover to snipe at our troops. The same shrine we surrounded but never fired at, never levelled, risking our young men’s lives so as not to “upset the Muslim community”.
It’s past time the Muslim community had some upsetting. You can’t quietly condone mass murder by not speaking out against it, and then expect to be respected.
And maybe someday you’ll realize that, as an infidel and a kafir, you are subject to the same treatment under the sharia as the rest of us. Just because you have a bleeding heart doesn’t mean you won’t be shunned, or beaten, or imprisoned, or executed in these cultures. You really should read the Koran and see how it condones this sort of behavior against the “non-believers”.
Maybe then you’d wake up from your hate-America wet dream.
Nice post. Let me explain why your critics above are wrong.
enloop: The U.S. government advisors in charge of protecting antiquities in Iraq have resigned in protest of how the U.S. government handled this debacle.
Chuck Shotten: If someone came to Atlanta and completely disabled the police department here, wouldn’t that someone be responsible for the foreseeable consequences of their actions?
Richard Bennnet refers (apparently–if I’m wrong, let me know) to a previous post’s mention of “‘the antiques in Baghdad’ and ’some old clay pots’ ” with “They’re largely one and the same”. If you want to minimize the damage, I suppose that’s one way to spin it.
Adam: Did you have something to say?
Dave: Lose the overt bigotry. It’s subtle hate that’ll put you into the big times.
One of the biggest issues is the ‘gung ho’ attitude adopted by the US military – and a lot of American’s in general. All that I heard from US military figures on the run up to the war were statements like “It’s hammer time”.
What kind of statement is that? It should be contrasted with the word of Lt. Col. Tim Collins of the Royal Irish Regiment.
The US forces in Baghdad have still to engender some kind of law and order in Baghdad. As I post this I’m reading a article with more complaints from the International Red Cross. British forces have done a much better job in Basra with an almost instant conversion from their ‘warrior’ to ‘peacekeeping’ role.
Just to get clear on this “oh, I’m so outraged at all this looting” angle: is the looting being done by Americans or by Iraqis? And which is better, maintaining a totalitarian dictatorship which keeps itself in power by widespread use of torture, rape, and murder, or overthrowing the dictatorship and losing a few clay pots in a short transition to democracy?
I love clay pots as much as the next guy, but you have to put them in perspective. Perhaps we can offer pottery education to Iraqis so they can replace them, or better yet, buy some from French hippies.
What’s better, Richard, is protecting vital resources in a nation we’ve made helpless.
As to those clay pots–it’s always painless to trash and mock what belongs to someone else. Perhaps if people were smashing up your culture, you’d keep the same detached attitude.
The incoherence of this post should be an alert to the Medical School that it is possible for human beings to live with completely interchangeable brains and colons.
1) There was very little internal displacement in this war. The “flight of Iraqi vermin to Syria” is just that. We are only concerned with the upper-echelon regime thugs. On the face of it, you appear to be sympathizing with murderers and torturers.
2) The Baghdad museum was closed to the public for some years prior to the war and all of the most precious antiquities were locked away in vaults. Now, who do you suppose got into those vaults? Was it the people with the keys or looters with pipes and chairs and the like?
Now, the invasion has not been without its flaws, but can you honestly hold the US military to the standard of perfection. I submit to you that saving thousands and thousands of Iraqis from murder, starvation and torture counts for a hell of a lot more to them than does saving a stone tablet, even if it does happen to be the oldest recording of Hammurabi’s Code. To opine otherwise puts you in the camp of those who view Iraqis as “sub-human, a played-out people.”
I agree that many artifacts may have been removed from the museum early in the war, if not before, by insiders. But that’s irrelevant. The question is: should the military have ATTEMPTED to protect the museum? I think any sensible battle plan would have incorporated such protection when it became clear that we had won, very much sooner than it eventually happened. But while there may at first have been a US battle plan for Baghdad, I think it was abandoned.
The New Yorker this week has a “Letter from Baghdad” with a first-hand account of the city’s fall. He recounts seeing Baghdad’s only working hospital pillaged by looters. He did not just watch, however – he and others collared a small group of Marines and without much effort convinced them to throw a cordon around the place. The soldiers had no idea where the hospital was, and were so confused by the situation that they initially set up with guns pointing AT the hospital, as if they were attacking it.
Such accounts indicate that the fall of Baghdad was executed in an ad-hoc, unplanned way. Who knows, somewhere there may have been a military plan that laid out hospitals, museums, etc. for protection, but it looks like this was junked in favor of speed when resistance turned out to be minimal. I’m betting that there was no overall coordination specifying that oil ministries were to be protected and hospitals were not; I wouldn’t be surprised to hear that field commanders were empowered to make these decisions, and very few of them had great locale intelligence.
Was it right take over swiftly (necessitating much chaos), as opposed to the Brits’ more deliberate pace in Basra? I have no clue, but I do know that Basra has 1.3M inhabitants, as opposed to Baghdad’s 5M. That may have been a factor.
May I suggest Mike Albert of Z Magazine and author of a new book called Parecon: Life after Capitalism? Albert would be an articulate voice representing the “anti-globalization” movement and could provide a positive progressive alternative vision and not just criticism.
“Anti-globalization activists understand that sympathetic and mutually beneficial global ties are good. But we want social and global ties to advance universal equity, solidarity, diversity, and self-management, not to subjugate ever-wider populations to an elite minority. We want to globalize equity not poverty, solidarity not anti-sociality, diversity not conformity, democracy not subordination, and ecological balance not suicidal rapaciousness.
Two questions arise. Why do these aspirations leave us critical of corporate globalization? And what new institutions do we propose for meeting these aspirations?”
Mary from Waltham.
“I agree that many artifacts may have been removed from the museum early in the war, if not before, by insiders. But that’s irrelevant. The question is: should the military have ATTEMPTED to protect the museum? ”
So the military, committed to an ongoing series of battles, should have made a GESTURE? I think you confuse Waltham with Baghdad.
adamsj
“If someone came to Atlanta and completely disabled the police department here, wouldn’t that someone be responsible for the foreseeable consequences of their actions?”
Disabling the police? Do you mean the sort of thing like blocking streets (ambulances, fire and police vehicles) by lying down and locking to each other and shutting down downtowns with masses of demonstrators? Granted the police are not “completely disabled,” by civil disobedience but the principle should stand in measure, don’t you think?
I’m a bit dissapointed with the American and European Left on the Iraq issue.
I don’t expect all Leftists to support the war (although 50% of American Leftists did end up supporting it– not that NPR would ever acknowledge it– although MSNBC has).
But I am dissapointed in the kind of muddled and opportunistic logic that so stridently opposed the removal of a monster like Hussein ‘on moral grounds’.
Not to mention the patheticly manipulative ploy of blaming the U.S. for allowing looting to occur after the fall of a totalitarian regime in Iraq.
There was looting in Afghanistan too, not to metion Russia when the Soviet Empire collapsed.
Such manipulative ploys to find some kind of dark lining in the silver cloud of victory in Iraq (any dark lining, no matter how absurd) make the Left look trivial and foolish.
What concerns me even more, however, is that this segment of the anti-war Left has, in it’s myopia over Iraq, succeeded in marginalizing the Left in general in the U.S.
And this is a real tragedy. The Left has much to offer the American political debate, but having marginalized itself in Congress over Iraq and further, as it threatens to further marginalize itself by taking the low road on the post-war period in Iraq, the Left risks a great deal on matters of education, the environment, social security and health care in the U.S.A.
I hate to say it, especially since my own father was a Vietnam veteran and my adopted Uncle was killed in Vietnam, but Vietnam, folks, was a long time ago and we are no longer living in the same world.
Thats not to say that the lessons of Vietnam should be forgotten. But neither does it mean that the Vietnam paradigm should be forced over every foreign policiy issue from now to infinity either.
The Left is in a time of peril that it does not fully recognize. It must choose carefully between rigid orthodoxy on the one hand and a flexible pragmatism on the other in a post 9/11 world.
If it fails to make the right choice, so much that is precious and vital in the American Left agenda will be sidelined for decades to come.
P.S. It may seem that I must be anti-Lydon in my points about the Left and Iraq but I am not.
I am still a big fan of Chris Lydon and greatly appreciate his work on the radio and also here.
**But Chris, you also opposed the War in Kosovo to stop Milosevich.
Chris I’m sorry, but I think a lot of people of your generation are so scarred by the Vietnam experience that you lose perspective when it comes to military action.
I have my own scars from the Vietnam era, having seen my father off to War at age 9 and having lost my Uncle in that war.
But I also lived in cold War Europe in the 1960’s and saw the late stages of the rebuilding of a land liberated by war.
Sorry, but in the 21st century (and perhaps although I hope not the 22nd century) there will still be a moral and just place for war in the human experience.
Your essay about Art, Boston, and growing up an artist in this city is remarkable. I, too, had my formative years as an artist imprinted with the MFA’s stamp. I can remember being particularly impressed by the Copley room when I first visited the museum at age six. I think that although I was not aware of it, I adopted the MFA/Boston aesthetic from an early age. Perhaps having the MFA as my earliest artistic influence explains why I have never taken to modern gallery art. Although I can understand the innovations and genius of men like Matisse and Picasso, I do respond to their work emotionally as I do Sargent, Vermeer, or Copley.
I especially liked your comments on Copley’s Paul Revere. It takes a Bostonian, I think, to understand that painting’s particular significance to our city. Although, to me, that painting did not seem “too heroic for what Boston had become” but perhaps that was because I was viewing it in the 80’s and 90’s, when Boston (and the Museum) was experiencing something of a renaissance. I have always seen “Paul Revere” to be symbolic of Boston’s grand history.
Thank you very much for writing this. I will continue to read your blog. If you’d like to see what another born-and-bred Boston artist is doing, take a look at my web site.
Do you really think Saddam Hussein had no weapons of mass destruction in the recent past?
Do you think, perhaps, that Saddam, out of the goodness of his heart or– fear of sweet, grandfatherly Hans Blix –actually got rid of all his nerve gas, bio agents, ect??
I don’t mean this tongue in cheek, I mean this seriously.
And please don’t label me a neo-con.
And please don’t also insinuate that the Op-ed crew at should all fall into some kind of party line.
There is no party line Chris!!!
Op ed is supposed to be a market place of ideas– it should be chaos, remember?
Start worrying when the op ed crew all sings the same song. Then you should be scared.
As far as Saddam goes…
…he torched the Kuwaiti oil fields when it was obvious he had lost the war…
…he tried to assisinate George Bush Sr. as well, so…
…wouldn’t cleaning out the WMDs’ be a great act of spite for a tyrant with a proven track record of spite?
And also– given that Hussein was counting on world opinion (combined with a bloody, protracted seige of Bagdad) to save his regime.
Don’t you think this also would have been a string incentive for Hussein to roll up his WMD’s in advance of the U.S. led invasion that certainly would have uncovered them???
Worse still (and you are not alone in this Chris) if enough liberals really pursue this faulty line of reasoning: “surely there were no WMDs in Iraq!!!”…
…do you think that the common-sense majority of Americans will actually vote said liberals into power anytime in the near future?
Or is pursuing such an argument worth, say, 15 years in the political wilderness while the Republicans rule the roost until the 60’s generation dies out?????
The majority of Americans are right when they say that Saddam destroyed or exported his WMD’s on the eve of war.
This same majority will continue to vote Democrats out of power if they press the fantasy that dear old Saddam had no such weapons in the recent past.
James, who doesn’t say his last name, it would appear that Saddam did not have any weapons of mass destruction. Had you asked me before the war if he did or didn’t I would have said he probably does, but now I’d have to say it’s the other way. The problem is that our government was supposed to know, they said they knew, they asked us to believe, and they were lying.
This is really just a minor quibble with your post–I have others but honestly I can neither not articulate them or back them up–but I think the Times chose ‘inevitable’ not to absolve themselves of the responsability of asking and answering questions about the war (by all means they did this, but on the wrong subjects like how long it would last, do we have enough troops, will Saddam use his WMDs, etc–not ‘are there rally WMDs’) but to show how really inevitable the war was. Perhaps it seems lame that they would use, in age of euphamisms and political doublespeak, a word that means what it means, but when they said inevitable they were telling us, the reader, that there was no amount of journalism and no amount of protest that could stop Bush’s march (Bush, after all, called a world-wide protest of millions of people a ‘focus group’).
The idea that there is moral justification to attack and kill others or to change regimes by force to prevent a greater harm is prone to abuse. Great care and honesty should be used in deciding to pre-judge and apply prior restraint with bombs and guns, and I believe that what Chris and many others are saying is that they question whether George Bush and Tony Blair used such care and honesty with themselves and the countries they lead.
The other issue raised is related. I live part time in the United Kingdom and part time in the United States. The war in Iraq reported on British television and newspapers bears little resemblance to the war in Iraq reported in the United States. Further, the BBC has been running a series over the past few weeks called “The War We Never Saw” that contains disturbing coverage of US and British violence against civilians, wide angle shots showing a small crowd (50-60 people) in an almost empty square when the “cheering throngs” pulled down the statue of Saddam in Baghdad, and frightening stories of what is happening right now in Iraq with a war supposedly over but American soldiers bullying and harrasing Iraqs for speaking out against US/UK occupation and trying to protect themselves from unexploded cluster bombs and other munitions.
If more balanced information was provided by the US government and US news agencies I would feel more comfortable with the debate and decisions to use force to interfere with other nations. Given what I have witnessed over the past 12 months during the build up, invasion, and aftermath in Iraq I can see no other choice but to question the factual basis, accuracy and honesty of the information being reported to the American people.
“James… …it would appear that Saddam did not have any weapons of mass destruction”
That statment is so ludicrous that it makes me not respect your intellectual capacaties. Perhaps Left politics have become an orthodox religion for you– rather than a dynamic self questioning process????!!
Further, the large mass of Americans in the political middle won’t respect such wishful naivete (’Saddam had no weapons of Mass destruction in the recent past’) AND WILL VOTE THE LEFT OUT OF POWER FOR A LONG TIME TO COME OVER SUCH DELUDED NONSENSE!!
COSTING US ALL in the following areas:
1) The environment.
2) Health care.
3) Education.
4) Gay rights.
Ect, ect, ect.
STOP THE FUCKING CHILDISH NONSENSE THAT SADDAM HAD NO WMDS!!!!
IT MAKES LIBERALS LOOK LIKE IDIOTS TO THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS AND HURTS ALL OF THE ABOVE LISTED CAUSES.
OUT WITH MINDLESS LIBERAL FUNDAMENTALISM!!
IN WITH PRAGMATIC, REALITY BASED LIBERALISM, PLEASE, BEFORE IT’S TOO LATE!!!
Arundati Roy opposed the removal of the Taliban from power by U.S. and allied forces on ‘moral grounds’.
On ‘moral grounds’, rather than fight a war, Ms. Roy would have let the Taliban remain in power to:
1) Continue denying health care to millions of Afghan women (the Taliban forbade women from seeing male Doctors for a long list of medical problems– thereby sentencing countless 100’s of thousands more Afghan women to death by medical care exclusion).
2) Would have kept all Afghan women under the crushing weight of the Burkha for years to come.
3) Would have allowed Al Quaeda to continue to exist unmolested and at full power in Afghanistan.
Arandati Roy is a destructive idealist.
Morality without pragmatism is ultimately immoral.
Outcomes and consequences of positions of principle correctlty gauge the moral worth of such positions, not their internal ‘purity’ devoid of consequence in reality.
Arandati Roy (and many other disconnected idealists) would have let the Taliban rape Afghanistsan for another generation, rather than go to war to stop it.
Rather than ‘get dirty’ and do the imperfect thing with the far superior moral outcome:
That is– use military force to remove the Taliban, liberate Afghanistan and deliver a blow to Al Quaeda.
Arandati Roy, darling of the unrealistic faction of the Left, gets the limelight, while those who would get their hands dirty and even risk their own lives, get morally perfectionistic condemntation.
All of this in the upside-down fantasy world of Left perfectionists who yammer endlessly from their many perches in the American and British media.
As James said, essentially, elsewhere on this Blog…
Arundati Roy opposed the removal of the Taliban from power by U.S. and allied forces on ‘moral grounds’.
On ‘moral grounds’, rather than fight a war, Ms. Roy would have let the Taliban remain in power to:
1) Continue denying health care to millions of Afghan women (the Taliban forbade women from seeing male Doctors for a long list of medical problems– thereby sentencing countless 100’s of thousands more Afghan women to death by medical care exclusion).
2) Would have kept all Afghan women under the crushing weight of the Burkha for years to come.
3) Would have allowed Al Quaeda to continue to exist unmolested and at full power in Afghanistan.
Arandati Roy is a destructive idealist.
Morality without pragmatism is ultimately immoral.
Outcomes and consequences of positions of principle correctlty gauge the moral worth of such positions, not their internal ‘purity’ devoid of consequence in reality.
Arandati Roy (and many other disconnected idealists) would have let the Taliban rape Afghanistsan for another generation, rather than go to war to stop it.
Rather than ‘get dirty’ and do the imperfect thing with the far superior moral outcome:
That is– use military force to remove the Taliban, liberate Afghanistan and deliver a blow to Al Quaeda.
Arandati Roy, darling of the unrealistic faction of the Left, gets the limelight, while those who would get their hands dirty and even risk their own lives, get morally perfectionistic condemntation.
All of this in the upside-down fantasy world of Left perfectionists who yammer endlessly from their many perches in the American and British media.
As James said, essentially, elsewhere on this Blog…
Arundati Roy opposed the removal of the Taliban from power by U.S. and allied forces on ‘moral grounds’.
On ‘moral grounds’, rather than fight a war, Ms. Roy would have let the Taliban remain in power to:
1) Continue denying health care to millions of Afghan women (the Taliban forbade women from seeing male Doctors for a long list of medical problems– thereby sentencing countless 100’s of thousands more Afghan women to death by medical care exclusion).
2) Would have kept all Afghan women under the crushing weight of the Burkha for years to come.
3) Would have allowed Al Quaeda to continue to exist unmolested and at full power in Afghanistan.
Arandati Roy is a destructive idealist.
Morality without pragmatism is ultimately immoral.
Outcomes and consequences of positions of principle correctlty gauge the moral worth of such positions, not their internal ‘purity’ devoid of consequence in reality.
Arandati Roy (and many other disconnected idealists) would have let the Taliban rape Afghanistsan for another generation, rather than go to war to stop it.
Rather than ‘get dirty’ and do the imperfect thing with the far superior moral outcome:
That is– use military force to remove the Taliban, liberate Afghanistan and deliver a blow to Al Quaeda.
Arandati Roy, darling of the unrealistic faction of the Left, gets the limelight, while those who would get their hands dirty and even risk their own lives, get morally perfectionistic condemntation.
All of this in the upside-down fantasy world of Left perfectionists who yammer endlessly from their many perches in the American and British media.
As James said, essentially, elsewhere on this Blog…
Any Leftists or progressives who offer a real world, attainable and pragmatic perspective on the post 9/11 reality are preferable to disconnected idealists like Arunditi Roy.
Her simplistic take on the U.S.A. as essentially the evil empire pitted against the rest of the world is also destructive by any measure.
The world is much more complex than Arundati Roys’ Oz-like sense of reality.
Progressives who are willing to get their hands dirty wrestling with lifes’ real contradictions and complexities are much more likely to effect real change and bring real progress to the human condition rather than moral perfectionists like Roy.
Showcasing people engaged in a more pragmatic, hands-on progressivism will make a greater contribution, ultimately.
I originally got to your new blog via BoingBoing.net, inspired by a comment about The Connection by Heath Row. This post of yours about Boston artists inspired me to go to the MFA last Thursday night.
There’s a new (sculptural/mobile) piece by Sarah Tze, the “end” of which hangs down into the entryway just in front of the admission booth. A slender thread is connected to a paper funnel dangling above a water glass like you’d get at Mary Chung’s in Central Square, and all around the glass are rose petals. If you follow the dangling thread upward, you see a magnificent contraption wound around a pillar beside the escalator. Go up the escalator, and you see that this contraption is the seaside colony of another, stuck to the far wall like a barnacle, connected to each other by some slender balsawood sticks and arcs of fishing line.
It’s just like human life: you want to have a chance at getting at least one of the flowers into the water where they can thrive, but you’re leagues away from the water and all you’ve got is thread and paperclips and a desk fan. So you start out about your business of getting from here to there, adapting and jury-rigging a solution to each new setting, getting around a corner here, bridging a gap there, and pretty soon you’ve got something that looks improbable yet functional, like a spider’s web, and you keep creeping towards the possibility of having a chance at winning, at putting yourself in a position where something might get planted and grow that might survive you and that other people might see and enjoy. More popsicle sticks! They are the stuff of hope!
“The real nightmare for the Times is the plain fact that one-way print-based corporate journalism cannot prevail in a rough-and-ready information game against the interactive, almost-free, global, democratic and instant Internet. For hungry hounds of news and for “the rising generation,” in the late Times saint James Reston’s phrase, the Times will never again be “the paper of record,” as we used to call it, or the first draft of history.”
Well, I’m not so sure about this. I first encountered a species of this kind of thought in 1991, when I was working at a local book publishing house (David Godine) as a co-op job during college. Everyone there seemed to think that the novel and publishing was dead despite the fact that more books were sold now than at any point in history, and there are more literate people now than at any point in history. Why so glum, chum?
In terms of the Internet and the blogosphere, look at exactly how “news” is covered — the starting point is almost always a news article, frequently from the NYT or CNN or the BBC. Most news and politics blogs (and talk radio shows) are *commentary,* not reporting. That’s because individual bloggers simply don’t have the resources to go out and cover a war. They gotta keep their day jobs. If the war happens to be in their backyard, what they’ll be telling you about is how it looks in their basement and what kinds of canned goods they’ve got.
In short, new forms of media don’t generally collapse or overtake old forms of media — TV did not kill radio, radio did not kill newspapers. The Internet will not kill any of the above. The only thing that may change is the physical format the above media types may come at you in — LPs, transistor radios, morphing into MP3 players and satellite data transmissions. But it’s still radio, TV, “the newspaper.” And in many cases, the physical format remains unchanged for decades and even centuries because no better solution presents itself. The best example of this phenomenon is the book. The display resolution of paper is excellent, its durability relative to cost is superior to everything else including digital media (which isn’t forever! I print out my kid’s baby photos, because I don’t think anyone will be able to read the file format I use now when he’s in college).
New media do *change* previous media, and I think you’re on to something with focusing on the op-ed page, because that’s the part of the newspaper that is most “under threat” from the blogosphere. Although TV didn’t kill radio, it did take over the role of storytelling from it — dramas etc. moved from radio to TV. The blogosphere may take over the opinion-manufacture-and-distribution-biz from newspapers. But they’re unlikely to take over “news.” Money matters in that biz, and bloggers don’t have any
Bravo, Christopher! Eloquently said! I’ve loved Emerson ever since I was a teenager. Let’s feel pride for adding our outspoken individualism to the “collective mind”!
“[F]ew men since the creation of the world live according to the dictate of Reason,” and sadly we have scant need to update that observation on the basis of evidence available in the blogosphere. Indeed, quite the opposite. Maybe there is a solution, but unless and until technology actually facilitates reasoned discourse, it’s hard to share your enthusiasm.
Go back to WBUR and take over the dis-Connection again. The Connection used to be the NY Times of talk shows, now it’s an earnest College paper: all earnestness and no wisdom and no sense of irony.
I used to love criticizing you, but then there was something worth criticizing. Dick Tracy isn’t even worth criticizing. All he deserves is what he’s getting: a turned off radio. Is it any wonder WBUR needs to schedule extra fundraisers. They don’t know it but they need you. And I need an intelligent lefty I can criticize.
Chris, we don’t need you. We already have Bill Moyers. But wait! We do need you, because it would be delightful to see the two of you go to war over who can denigrate Bush more.
You can’t skip over the Jayson Blair debacle without acknowledging the Affirmative Action problem. Doctrinaire liberals like Howell Raines take a moralistic stance, then become virtual caricatures of its worst excesses. Jayson Blair would have been uncovered and out the door a LOT sooner if he’d been white. The filtering that white liberal guilt generates in those situations has become laughable. Fairness and genuinely equal treatment should be common sense by now. Raines lost his integrity in full view of his newsroom and the general public.
Yes, that Robert Manning of Boston, a would-be Emersonian groping for the tools with which to be one. Congrats, Chris, on your new web-site and double congrats for the fine Emerson essay. If we can believe Old Waldo’s essay on Compensation we can take hope that for each of the nasty things going on today in the world, especially in Washington, there is or will be a benign opposite.
Emerson’s multiculturalism was gleaned from the racist scholarship of the British Raj: he never experienced the living traditions from which the Indian thought he professed to admire emerged. In that sense, yes, he is an exemplary postmodern American, as is that Emersonian contempt for “mass culture,” which translates rather directly, I think, into a contempt for ordinary human beings … a very un-Christian failure of human solidarity. But I find very little to be proud of in acknowledging that fact. More thoughts at:
One would think that over-the-top paranoia would be the sole province of those deemed either a danger to other or themselves. Alas, it is not so. In the past couple of years, this dreaded affliction has reached epidemic proportions among those I tend to think of as “the intellectually insane.”
Breslin writes, at the core of his screed:
“Because of it, I am thinking that it could be time for me to begin thinking about leaving this news business. It is not mine anymore. Let me tell you why.
“Friday, the newspapers and television reported the following matter with no anger or effort to do anything other than serve as stenographers for the government:”
One would think that a man with his experience would have a better grasp of the actual realities of the news business and the vast proliferation of outlets for all views that has exploded across the Infosphere in the last few years. One would think that, but one would be wrong.
Should the esteemed Mr. Breslin choose to make good on his threat (One that brings to mind Robert Altman’s promise to move to France a few years ago), all a thoughtful person can say in response is: “Door. Ass. Bang.”
Along with Nehru and the other luminaries you mentioned, a certain german philosopher by the name of Nietzsche was also quite fond of Emerson’s writings in his early years!
Once again thanks for a wonderfully uplifting piece!
At first I held that the U.S. military should be allowed twelve years to account for Iraq’s WMDs, same as the UN got. Now I feel the pressing nature of the issue, and am only willing now to grant them one tenth as much time, dated from the end of the active combat phase. So, let’s see what we’ve found a year from now. Fair enough?
And if U. S. intelligence turne out to have been wrong, you still have to prove that they were lying, if you want me to believe they were lying.
And no fair moving the goalposts. The antis said that Iraq had no connection with terrorism. We found terrorists and terror training grounds in Iraq, which prompted the hasty insistence that they had nothing specifically to do with Al Qaeda. Do not back and fill, please. No one on any side of the issue should be afraid of the truth. The antis can always, if they are proved wrong on the WMD, simply go back to their 9/11 stance, and just say that oh well America deserves whatever the terrorists dish out anway.
And it is not an altogether bad thing for the terrorists and the euroweenies to have to think twice before they cross us again, n’est pas?
When I was a kid, I delivered the New York Daily News. That was 76-77, the Summer of Sam, and Jimmy Breslin was the Prince of the City.
I used to read his column before setting out on my bike with the rickety front basket. Oh, to be like him one day.
Lately, though, he’s been tired and rambly. Disappointing.
But today, the old lion summoned up his old ferocity for the cause of journalism, if only to let the over-educated cubs know he’s still prowling the veldt. Read the story!
I have two Breslin stories of my own.
One day, while working on a political campaign in 1984[?], I was delivering something to the NYDN building, and Jimmy walked up to a hot dog vendor, got a dog, bullshitted with the guy and wolfed it down like a champ. This was before he got sick and when he still looked like the tough city newsman. It was an iconic moment.
Another day, inside the NYDN building, after I walked past a giant poster of his Jimmy-ness, I approached the elevator. The doors opened. There was Jimmy, with a collection of Damon Runyan characters including a hooker, a midget and a pimp dressed like Huggy Bear.
It was as surreal a moment as the scene in Rio Bravo where John Wayne, Ricky Nelson, Dean Martin and Walter Brennan do a sing-along in the jail.
A thought-provoking piece, thank you. I am ready to see as Emersonian the proliferation of individualistic expression that blogs have permitted. I don’t think the idea of a distributed “mind” a la Google matches what Emerson described, however; in fact a distributed, populational mind is the opposite of his notion of a central, essentialist mind to which everyone have access. He’s a mainframe thinker (how’s that for an anachronism) in this population-thinking world.
“News is what somebody somewhere wants to suppress. Everything else is publicity.” Lord Northcliffe.
This may be the first column by Breslin I’ve ever read, but I thought it was heroic. America will be great only so long as she is free, and we have always counted on the press to play its part in ensuring our freedom. The rise of the Internet does little to alleviate the abdication of responsibility by the corporate press, any more than the press’s abdication excuses the government’s excesses.
I don’t care why Breslin et.al. were never hired by the Times; surely the reasons are now lost in an editorial haze?
But the issue in this particular column is horrifyingly relevant – the US government is publicly ‘disappearing’ citizens, and claiming that this is OK. Not Chile, not El Salvador, not Zimbabwe – the US. Think back – two years ago this was unimaginable. Oh, the US may have disappeared citizens – but invisibly, because it was NOT OK.
According to warblogging.com, the Padilla count (days that he’s been held in solitary without charge or meeting w/lawyers) is 444. This American Life’s coverage of the Padilla case and other erosions of our country’s founding principles is particularly pointed: “Secret Government”, 1/10/03, http://www.thislife.org .
I believe that those of us who oppose the erosion of our country’s freedoms and rights by this administration are the only patriots left. We should fly the flag and sing patriotic songs proudly this 4th, and every day. Habeas corpus and the bill of rights are not bleeding heart frills; they are the stuff of which the flag is woven.
Should we also have ‘deotherized’ the Nazis while they were still gun-toting thugs and invaders under the Third Reich?
Or was it best (from a morally pragmatic perspective) to fight them and kill them until the Third Reich collapsed?
And THEN ‘de-otherize’ the survivors (as we did under the Marshall plan)!!
What destruction, what furthering of holocaust, would we have abetted had we been so morally rigid as to ‘de-otherize’ the Nazis while they were still armed, dangerous and on the offensive?
What good is pure idealism with no traction in reality–devoid of accounting for consequences?
Let pacifistic refusal to oppose Hitlers’ Germany be the the test and proof:
Morality without pragmatism is ultimately immoral.
And I don’t want blind dismissal of the current threats to our country either.
Bravo for Breslin speaking out against summary arrests and detentions.
But he deserves a bucket of cold water dumped over his head for implying that many journalists are just Government stenographers…
…when in reality these detentions have been questioned from multitudinous journalistic quarters.
Nevertheless Breslin has an extremely important case to press in defense of our imperiled civil liberties and he and the countless other journalists who continue to raise this issue are doing us all a service.
Hi,
Next time you interview your “Very good friend” Mr. Winer, maybe you could ask him why he yanked John Robb’s weblog off the air?? and why there is no info about John’s Weblog Network available anywhere. I don’t agree with John Robb and his treatment of his customers (one of whom was myself), but still its unfair and akin to censorship to basically yank someone’s weblog out of circulation just like that.
It is Vile and enethical!
This is the self proclaimed “leader” of the weblogging world? I doubt it! Unfortunately I have lost all respect for Dave Winer! (FWIW)
It’s been my belief that the blogstorm around Lott’s remarks functioned for the administration as so many recent events have functioned: as an unexpected opportunity to accomplish something that was already on their to-do list. Despite his personal failings (which cannot have bothered the southern Republican hierarchy much at all), Lott seems to have had loyalties to some of the Senate’s bipartisan traditions that, from the White House’s point of view, impeded its own agenda for that body. It seemed to me that as soon as the furor boiled up enough to begin to seep into the mainstream press, they pushed the button, and through the floor went Lott.
Well,
At least that wasn’t a total loss. Even though most of the responses are evasive, and filtered based on future percieved benefits to be recieved from selling a certain brand of blogging software (to New York Times perhaps?)
– Mark Pilgrim? was that a slip?
– “Elect a blogger”? Are you kidding me?
Blogging is not the Panacea that blogging software vendors want to make it out to be. This is turning out to be the next snake oil. Bloggers are the endall, be-all. right? not so!
It is true that the medium IS the message. And the Medium is a “diffuse” medium now. Its about vanity, its about expressing yourself and find ing out that you _can_ . And the feeling of not giving a fark.
Blogging can be throttled very quickly. Look at what Dave Winer himself did to John Robb’s blog? An Ex Employee??! How can this be reconciled with Dave’s statment that hopefully we select a “blogger” next time as president?
And what do you have to say about bloggers who are censored by their ISP? or by their Blogging Service Providers? Or even their own employers? Why is it not okay to express yourself, yet be professional in your job as well? Or to dissent and not have to worry about your blog being “be-headed” off the face of the “link-cosmos” ?
Blogging is like going home and playing SM games with your mind, and other people’s minds. Just a release! I would just as soon use Notepad and Apache to do my blogging. I don’t need all the features that RU and now everybody else and their uncle seems to want to give me. Just so they can lock me in..
The idea is to express yourself.. not to have gazillions of links, link extractors, link constipators, linke dredgers, link cosmos, link this.. link that..
An obsession with linking and blogrolling – and features that are really superflous to the core idea – is what is actually stifling the true edge of blogging, namely, indulgent, un-apologetic self expression.
This is why people like Dave Winer are dangerous. They actually promote useless features that us users really may not want. While creating built-in incompatibilities and tying users to their plat form and to their desktops. What we want is to express ourselves. How does a super duper link cosmos help me? I don’t know. All I want to do is say what I think is the right thing to say at the moment and not be persecuted for it.
And yes.. yanking a blog off the air is persecution, censorship and an injustice against the ideals of self expression, and democracy that no red blooded Blogware vendor is too ashamed to be an advocate of if it helps to fool the audience. Not to mention it being diametrically opposed to claims made by the proponents of these software packages to be promoters of “free speech” and “democracy”
Bloggers may not appear to be very active,or cohesive in their action, but one thing is for sure. It may not be as easy to fool this audience as it was to fool the Push-Media audiences of the yester years.
Our dear beloved vendors would do well to give their attitude a kick in the pants for the better and actually start practising what they preach.
Maybe they ought to start with protecting the blogging rights of the bloggers and ensuring the continuity of the thoughts that a blogger went thru the pains of creating and publishing. Then I would feel that they are qualified to be interviewed and presented to us as credible players in blogging.
P.S. Spelling mistakes, baseless allegations, and rants are all mine.
Good interview with Dave Winer. The one thing that the blogosphere is not is unselfconscious. Blogs blog more about blogging , it seems, than anything else. So with that in mind, I’m hesitant to describe the phenomenom further, other than to say that in my experience they remove the authority of traditional media while at the same time, organizing themselves around it. Traditional media becomes a supply channel and the bloggers democratically distill the information supplied and determine what is important and what isn’t.
RAHA, if loosely translated, means freedom or independence. We are a group of independent writers belonging to different countries, communities, creeds, castes, religions, races, languages and sexes. Our prime objective is to fight for freedom — the freedom to read, write and speak what one thinks is right.
RAHA professes — and gives its members, well wishes and compatriots — absolute freedom of the spoken and the written word. We endeavor to support independent writers from all parts of the world, while opposing any kind of censorship or suppression.
We seek your support to fight for this noble cause. You can help RAHA by contributing your work — be it poetry, fiction, non-fiction, critique, you name it — provided it is of quality and is committed to a cause.
Please announce RAHA we site to work better.
We invite you to join RAHA by quoting Giannes Ritsos’ poetic line:
From the Cautionary Tales Dept: The euphoria infused in these comments reminds me of the reaction of many in the mid-1980’s who came across “computer conferencing” at the other end of their dial-up modem connections. Think of The WELL, or Participate on The Source.
It was, truly, completely, something new under the Sun of free expression. In many settings, anyone could start a discussion topic, on any subject, and those who found it were welcomed to join in, thus creating a community of minds linked by interest alone.
For professionals trained in the dynamics of groups and for visionaries who were in concert with Emerson’s insight into common human experience, this was a platform for creative collaboration and expression with potentially universal reach outside the frame and control of institutional publishing and communications. Removed of process, time, space, and ultimately language constraints — even at a mere 300 baud (and this was all happening well far apart from the Internet and Usenet) — this global connectivity opened the door to advancing human understanding to a previously inaccessible level: whether among a small group developing policy; people sharing personal experience in support groups, or people with previously unconnected but shared politics coordinating global strategy.
When the Internet connected the isolated islands of commercial online services and BBS networks where conferencing was active in the mid-1990’s, the door opened large, and it remains opening, soon to get a supreme kick as AOL provides blogging to its millions of subscribers.
In a previous response here, J.A. Marrit reacts to Chris’ post this way: “…unless and until technology actually facilitates reasoned discourse, it’s hard to share your enthusiasm.”
The important goal is to determine whether and how technology might conceivably advance reason itself. As it happens, in those 15 pre-web years literally thousands of dedicated practitioners, many of whom were motivated by the very Emersonian tenets expressed here, deliberately designed their collaborative spaces to create a better common understanding for the people in their groups, whatever their size or purpose.
How have they done? I think it is fair to say modestly well. They are still at it. Still bringing groups together, creating useful collaborative spaces, many of which are now infused with blogs. But they also now work with a highly informed sense of technology’s limitations when it comes to affecting relationships among people.
For the purposes of assessing the presence of Emerson in the blogosphere, they might say, “Yes, he’s still out there, and more clearly apparant than at any time previously, and so there for anyone interested in bringing him into his or her orbit.”
Reasoned discourse, in other words, will have to speak for itself.
Chris I hope/trust you won’t be limiting yourself to just bloggers. Jon Krakauer will be doing a book reading on Thurs. July 17. I would love to hear you interview him before, during or after the event.
As a liberal who supports the war in Iraq, I find the liberal focus on the WOMD question a little unnerving. I don’t know of any thinking liberal who, going into the war actually believed that the real reason we were going in was to because Saddam had WOMD and was threatening to use them. There were a lot better and more subtle reasons why it was a good idea to get rid of Saddam Hussein. First, he supported suicide bombers in Isreal. Second, we was a horrible dictator that we couldn’t ever have normal relations with, and if September 11 taught us one thing, it is that we need to over the long term, build a footing in the Arab world. We could never do it in Saudi Arabia because of the monarchy and other strong religious forces. Syria has too many legimimate gripes against Isreal to do it there. Egyptian government is our friend, but is totalitarian and corrupt. Baghdad has been the center of the Moslem intellectual world for a very long time, and if we can bring about a democracy in Iraq it will be the greatest long-term security we can build. I acknowledge that always a certain group will radicalize against change, but if you look at the poll taken a couple days ago, a majority of the citizens want the US to stay and rebuild the country. Iraq was a gamble and it may be a great failure but I respect George Bush a lot for taking the chance on a great success rather than fail conservatively.
I have always been a bit at odds with Chris’ foreign policiy analysis going back for years. I am simply more hard nosed, center-Left and wary of the Far-Left foreign policy worldview.
But this has never stopped me from appreciating Lydons’ amazing talk shows and his rare ability to converse intellectually, passionately and almost musically all at once.
I like the title of this blog-section: “We desperately need more of these conversations.”
This could aptly be reapplied to Chris himself and his widely missed on-air dialogues.
There is a hunger out there in our nation for what Lydon had to offer.
And we desperately need more of his conversations.
Chris – thanks for interviewing Ed. It would have taken me months to discover his different personae (if I remember my Latin). Audio adds so much to blogging. The tone, the pitch and energy in a voice tells a lot about a person. Anyone who uses the term “brain-fart” is ok in my book. I think he’s dead right about the NH primary blog project needing some “gatekeepers” or “aggregation” points.
In any case, I hope to get to meet Ed when he comes to Cambridge for the BloggerCon.
Chris – you might want to take a look at Hugh Hewitt’s website http://hughhewitt.com . He is the current leader in what I would call “Blog Assisted Talk Radio.” According to him, almost all of his show prep is done via blogs.
He and his colleagues at KRLA stream their shows http://www2.krla870.com/listen/ . Their audio quality is not as good as yours.
I’ll also thank you, Chris. In general, bloggers don’t give their readers this type of insight into who they are. I wish one day I could take Ed’s course in blogging. With only a few journalism courses, I could use some coaching.
I know where Ed is coming from when he talks about the need for filters or nodes especially when it comes to political opinions. But, I’d be careful in not destroying the end-to-end quality of the blog world as David Weinberger describes it. In his interview Dave Winer talked about news stories traditionally emanating from central sources aka the mass media to be distributed to the periphery. He sees blogging (and so do I) as information arising from the periphery, and being verified and authenticated in the periphery. Someone summed it up in this quip: “We can Fact Check Your Ass.” This is the best reponse to the trend toward consolidation in the mass media.
With filters we’re building another inflexible hierarchy, where the “important” bloggers will determine what posts are worth considering. Don’t discount those of us who live and breathe in the “wiggle room” (nod to David). BK
Thanks, Chris for Doc’s interview. His blog serves as a model, at least for me, on how to utilize this agreement/space whatever you want to call, most effectively.
I think blogs are at their weakest, and I’m guilty of this when they try to be predictive and oracular. It’s the hardest thing to pull off, but it stimulates nonetheless.
Without getting too political let me suggest that we begin to look at the US populace online as a resource for finding creative solutions for the current set of problems. Instead of waiting for the “government listening to RSS feeds” we can begin to try to reach a consensus through debate about issues regarding healthcare, resolution in Iraq, homeland security. Don’t you think that the blogosphere can work more efficiently in synthesizing information toward coming up with solutions than the government bureacracy can? Afterall, we’re not burdened by the onslaught of lobbyists, special interest groups or the need to get re-elected.
To a great extent the gov’t should expect its citizens to work to find the solutions, now that they have the tools to network. (Just as newspapers must look to the Web see what people consider newsworthy.)I don’t think it’s so important that political candidates start blogging, but that they realize that the citizenry can share in the role of leadership. We love our heirarchies, they’re simple to comprehend and diagram, but there’s no reason to believe that creative solutions should drop down from the isolated, centralized bodies that are elected every 4 years or so. The blogosphere is a mess and imperfect, but protean, which is it’s real value.
Tim you are a liberal who’s foreign policy views I respect!!
I like your realpolitik analysis despite the fact that it may ruffle some anti-imperial feathers.
And an added note: Good riddance to Uday and Qusay!!
Well deserved praise should go to the young men (and perhaps women?) who put their lives on the line today in order to take those two monsters out.
Especially my thoughts are with the young soldier who took a round in the chest (and thankfully lived) in order to help rid the world of Uday and Qusay Hussein.
This young man is a hero by any standard and deserves praise for his courage.
An open letter to Chris Lydon (posted here as a “comment” and over at my blog.
Yet another great interview with Doc Searls. I learned a lot from the interview even though I got to meet Doc in person at Dave’s Cafe Bombay meet-up after Jupiter’s Business Weblog event. But you have to start interviewing non-bloggers. Up to this point, you’ve been “preaching to the choir” with Winer, Cone, Searls, etc.
May I suggest that you take your BlogRadio portable studio over to the Harvard’s Kennedy School of Management and find out what their thoughts are on blogging, the web and Election 2004. A good start might be Matthew Hindman, a fellow over at KSG, who has gotten a couple of op-ed pieces in the NY Times recently. He wrote a piece entitled How the Web Will Change Campaigns <> back in Dec. 2002 in which he concluded that candidate websites would not be a deciding factor or even a significant factor in election 2004. Given that Dean now leads the Democratic pack in fund raising and his primary fundraising channel is his website, I wonder whether Mr. Hindman has modified his opinion.
If Matthew is in town, you might invite him to the next “Thurs. at Berkman meeting.” We might even try to record the meeting for BlogRadio although I realize this might be a little ambitious at this stage. But, hell, you have to try a group interview at some point, right?
I think Chris should keep his blogger concentration, at least until he gets a critical mass and recognition. There are over a million bloggers to choose from, and the blogger/politics connection should last up through the Democratic Convention next year when Chris should be our BlogRadio man-on-the-convention-floor, don’t you think?
Maybe ’cause I’m in awe of Emerson that I enjoyed your thoughtful audio piece, Or, I’m in awe of your ability to speak sensibly on subjects like Emerson. Either,and both,ways thanks! Al Maze.
Like Sifry says, a blogger is more like a columnist than a journalist. I think that’s an important point: I’d be very reluctant to rely on blogs for my news. Opinion and buzz, yes. But not news reporting. I don’t pretend to believe that the conventional news media are objective and unbiased, but I do think that good editors and trained reporters are more likely to generate accurate reports than are bloggers. With the NY Times we at least know that there is a system and professional standards in place (which admittedly aren’t always adhered to) to present the facts as accurately as possible with a minimum of ideological spin. But bloggers have no such gatekeepers, and are free to report hearsay, or refract what they see through their ideological prisms, and call it news. And I’m not convinced that the average blog reader will be able to tell the difference.
I take second place to no man (or woman) in my admiration of Stephen “Steve” Kinzer . Bitter Fruit and Blood of Brothers ought to be required reading in contemporary American history courses. In addition to his new book on Iran he continues to write interesting pieces for the NYT, most recently on the lack of American interest in “foreign” literature, literature in translation. So if you want to pay attention to Kinzer and extol his fine work and career, by all means.
But the blogging (that ugly word again) angle seems to me to be oblique. “Free blogging is part of the cure,” The cure to what? The
“spinners in office and institutional media” who “have always kidded and conned us about such things as oil and empire, race and righteousness?” The current frenzied ululation emanating from the web log world seem to be taking credit for curing everything from cancer to poverty and now you are including racism and imperialism. Now great things may follow from what Glen Reynolds calls ‘the functioning anarchy” of new media but I prefer Chou Enlai’s assessment of the French Revolution, “It’s too soon to tell.”
It would be useful to know the current size of the “blogosphere” to help gauge its potential influence. My sense is that it’s a fishbowl floating in an ocean: 780,000 blogs isn’t much, especially when you consider that probably at least 70 percent of them are used to inform the world what the blogger ate for breakfast that morning.
Do we know how many “serious” issues-oriented blogs are out there? And do we know how many people are reading them? When everyone you know is blogging or reading blogs, it’s easy to be seduced into thinking that this is a big phenomenon. But that’s like thinking that the majority of Americans must be liberals, based on the fact that most of your friends and acquaintances are liberals.
There’ll probably be a serious explosion in blogging in the next few years, as user-friendly blogging tools like Typepad come on the scene. But I suspect the bulk of that explosion will resemble the CB radio craze of the late 1970s, in which millions of people bought CB radios for their cars but quickly tired of conversations that consisted of “10-4 good buddy, what’s your 20?” We might have a blogosphere of tens of millions of blogs in a few years, but if most of those blogs are simply online diaries I don’t think we’re looking at a serious agent of social change.
Superb interview! infuriating, uplifting and depressing in one go! (where’s my cheap canadian Prozac..).
You’ve asked some tough questions, re: why the American public is so ignorant and short sighted about their own history and the mind-bogglingly significant part they play in determining the fate of the world. Its time for American citizenry to take action.
Please enable talkback so we can rant about it some more
I read this discussion and the original article with interest. Readers wishing to read more about the impact of the net on Islam and Muslim societies might want to visit http://www.virtuallyislamic.com – which contains research information relating to this theme. There’s also material on my books Virtually Islamic and Islam in the Digital Age (out this week). I’ve added a blog this week (another drop in the ‘blogosphere’?)…
I thoroughly enjoyed the Emerson and Winer audioblogs, but can’t seem to succeed in accessing any of the media.skybuilders.com pieces. The URL simply times out as unresponsive.
I thoroughly enjoyed the Emerson and Winer audioblogs, but can’t seem to succeed in accessing any of the media.skybuilders.com pieces.
These should open in QuickTime if you have it. You might have better luck if you right-click on the link (in Windows) and choose “Save Target As” to save it to your computer’s hard disk. If you’re using a Mac, control-click on the link to download to your hard disk. Then you can open it up with whatever MP3 software you use. These are big files; even with a DSL connection they can take a few minutes to download.
Well, I’ll comment. This is an intriguing take on the 9/11 events. Comparison b/w the decision making that might have gone on in a bureaucratic/lethargic/inertial system (Pentagon) with a Democratic/nimble/dynamic system (passenger network inside the plane) is _fresh_ to say the least.
The standing army vs. “drafted” army is a good argument as well. Right now it seems, American citizens enlist in the Army _not_ to go oppress other nations. They are sent out in the name of freedom, liberty, right-to-use-bleached-toilet-paper or whatever the heck is the anti-enemy-slogan du jour. Believing that they are doing a good thing. That doesn’t take away from the damage that they are a part of, creators of, and instruments of. Why/how is another blog altogether, but ignorance and complacency on part of the citizenry is reason One.
Looking at “defense” from the stop-gap, band-aid point of view (as done currently) is disasterous IMO. Defense has to be “holistic” (if you can stomach the term). It has to be Defence and not Warmaking in Peace’s clothing. Citizens mobilizing to defend the country. That would mean American citizenry getting themselves off the cruise-control, give time to the affairs of their country.
But, sadly, its not just about America anymore. America controls the fate of the world. People of America are proxy voters for the rest of us. Its a frightening prospect if you are looking from the outside in. The only hope (that at least I have) is in the libertarian tradition of the American psyche. and hopefully the citizenry will prevail in the face of absurdities ( and abberrations that have been gathering momentum in the preceding decades and seem to prevail today.
P.S. I have a category in my iPod called “Lydon’s Interviews” Not too inventive, I know, but I’m saving all these. Just in case you get yanked off the air (I’m just paranoid prolly). 1/2 hour seems so short. Maybe you should do 1 hour interviews? Would you Interview Gore V. or Chomsky? give _them_ a taste of the blogging world?
Tariq Ali has a piece titled Operation Iranian Freedom in The Nation (along with some comments on the Kinzer book).
Final para:
Experience, the best of teachers, has educated the people of Iran. Not even all-powerful ayatollahs can override the laws of biology. If left alone the Iranians will get rid of their bearded oppressors in their own way and in their own time. It might even be the dawn of an Islamic Reformation. Certainly the vibrancy of the country’s filmmakers and the clandestine poems and texts that are being circulated are an indication of the change that lies ahead. If the Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld team decides to speed up the process, it’s all but certain to create a giant mess that will only strengthen the most backward elements in the country. The interests of the empire rarely coincide with those of the people it is intending to “liberate,” especially when the people know that one reason they are in a mess is because of what the empire did in its own interests fifty years ago.
a superb blog, and an excellent interview, mr. lydon. hopefully, this will emerge a trend in militarized zones where civilian perspectives are needed more than ever.
Fascinating. This project is one of the most worthwhile annotations in the blogging realm and this episode really defines the whole thing for me.
I have been busily downloading these interviews and burning them either to my dreadful little MP3 player or to a CD and have so far had a few hours of pleasure on my commutes. (Parenthetically, I read with amusement on Julie’s blog about her dislike of fellow commuters wearing ear-bud headphones on the subway; hey Julie I was listening to you!)
Where guys like Winer, Searls and Sifry are interesting, they are still insiders in this whole phenomenon. Listening to Powell you hear a real gee whiz in her voice. She knows just enough to get the job done and not enough to be scared of the consequences. Catching up on her blog has been great fun and I suspect her days in a dead-end job are numbered.
Thanks Chris for this excellent project! I will be in touch with some technical ideas in the near future.
Not *quite* true – the ones on the right-hand side (calendar and other links) are fine. But yes, it’s still annoying.
I’m very fond of Real Live Preacher – I’m not religious, and don’t ever think that I will be, but he writes beautifully well, and reminds me of what it’s like to be *good*. Not all religious believers are good people, by any means, and many good people are perfectly non-religious (either agnostic or atheist), but Real Live Preacher is a shining example of a good man.
Safari at home also seemed to crowd text. Maybe some conflict between the combined CSS line heights and older font tags?
With Mozilla on this borrowed Red Hat box the page looks & works OK — except for unreadable italic section in the Julie/Julia report.
Alas, this machine lacks a sound card, but I’ll come back to listen to the preacher from home. Love those tamales! Thanks, Chris!
I’m downloading the actual interview of RLP right now, but I just wanted to comment about how great this string of “investigations” are. This is definitely something that the Blogosphere needs — a well-researched and detailed list of who is “important” in contemporary Blog-culture.
Blogs have been creating an interesting form of “community” that has been a current topic of discussion on various Blogsites. I’m thankful to have Real Live Preacher as part of my own community and I’m glad that you are posting a way to intelligently find others who may become part of my community in the future.
“Robert Scheer calls it a witchhunt against the BBC.”
It’s the BBC that is engaging in witch hunts especially against the US and against the state of Israel and most importantly on any one who questions their veracity.
Let’s remember that the BBC is a state monopoly and is supported by a special tax on the British people.
I don’t believe they have served the British public well.
Ah yes! A state monopoly. Firstly, it is not a monopoly. You should have been able to glean from the posting that Rupert Murdoch’s many companies, amongst others, provide much competition for the BBC.
Secondly, you imply that state funding of the BBC is a bad thing. In fact, as the current dispute between the government and the BBC demonstrates, it probably guarantees greater independence and the BBC has demonstrated that it is not afraid to criticise the government of the day, even though it is funded by them.
I think the most telling indicator is that during the Conservative government, Ministers were constantly criticising the BBC for its anti-Conservative bias and now, under the Labour government it is being attacked for its anti-Labour bias. I’d say that means they are getting it about right.
Perhaps the American media should be more skeptical of its own government instead of being afraid to publish negative stories.
Simple: we don’t live in a democracy, we live in a corporate republic. Its OK for our president to lie as long as it serves large corporations’ interests.
“Ah yes! A state monopoly. Firstly, it is not a monopoly. You should have been able to glean from the posting that Rupert Murdoch’s many companies, amongst others, provide much competition for the BBC. ”
You are wrong Steve, the BBC is a state monopoly. The British State allows it to collect a special tax from the public to support its programs. No other company has such a privilege in England.
“Secondly, you imply that state funding of the BBC is a bad thing. In fact, as the current dispute between the government and the BBC demonstrates, it probably guarantees greater independence and the BBC has demonstrated that it is not afraid to criticise the government of the day, even though it is funded by them.”
Again, it’s not the business of a government to support an ideological point of view. Whether that ideology favors or challenges the current government is irrelevant.
A media outlet can just as well distort the news in order to criticize a government as it can in order to support it. In either case distorting the news is the issue and not its criticism or non criticism of a particular governmental point of view.
The British people need to take away the special privileges afforded to its totalitarian BBC.
“I think the most telling indicator is that during the Conservative government, Ministers were constantly criticising the BBC for its anti-Conservative bias and now, under the Labour government it is being attacked for its anti-Labour bias. I’d say that means they are getting it about right.”
It’s no secret the BBC has an Israel problem. News reports frequently berate Israel for failing to satisfy Palestinian demands, whether regarding military actions or curfews or prisoners, while Israel’s concerns and vulnerabilities are given scant attention, if any.
The prevalence of such one-sided treatment no doubt springs in part from fundamentally skewed views of Middle East history into which daily events are fit. One window on BBC thinking can be found on the network’s website, in its permanent background articles, posted there ostensibly to add context to daily reports.
A time-line entitled “A History of Conflict” captures the pervasive endorsement of Arab grievance and Zionist culpability. The introduction explains: “For the Palestinians the last 100 years have brought colonisation, expulsion and military occupation, followed by a long and difficult search for self-determination and for coexistence…”
Among the many tendentious assertions in that single sentence is the curious statement that Palestinians have been engaged in a “difficult search” for “coexistence” with Israel. Difficult, indeed, it has been, when classrooms are filled with maps of Palestine supplanting Israel and children are taught that it is both their right and duty to pursue that country’s annihilation, and that they should seek paradise in the honorable act of killing as many Jews as possible. Yet there is no hint in the time-line of the impact of such schooling, or of clerics exhorting the masses to murder, or of Yasir Arafat calling for Jihad.
Sections on the modern era emphasize the “discontent” of Arabs at the arrival of the Zionists. Such “Arab discontent” is cited as the cause of recurring riots in the 1920s and 1930s, without mention of Haj Amin al-Husseini and his key role in fueling propaganda and violence against the Jews. Britain’s pliant policy toward the Arabs, and indulgence of both their violence and their demands to penalize the Zionists are, unsurprisingly, omitted.
In the BBC rendition, Arabs are also indigenous to the area, in contrast to Jews. Accordingly, no reference is found to the large immigration of Arabs from across the Middle East to Palestine during the Mandate years. A description of the 1947 UN partition plan avers “the territory was plagued with chronic unrest pitting native Arabs against Jewish immigrants.”
To cast Arabs as victims in the Six Day War, all mention of the closure of the Straits of Tiran and the massing of scores of thousands of Egyptian and Syrian troops and tanks is omitted, along with the calls for the destruction of Israel. Instead, the reader is told of “mounting tensions” of unidentified origin that “culminated” in “hostilities.”
But little can top BBC’s rationalizing of Arab aggression in the Yom Kippur War: “Unable to regain the territory they had lost in 1967 by diplomatic means, Egypt and Syria launched major offensives against Israel on the Jewish festival of the Day of Atonement or Yom Kippur. The clashes are also known as the Ramadan War.”Evidently BBC considers Arab rejectionism, embodied in the “three no’s” of Khartoum issued in August 1967 – no recognition, no negotiation and no peace with Israel – a form of “diplomatic” effort.
The same disregard for historical fact is apparent in a remarkable statement under the section dealing with Israel’s 1982 invasion of Lebanon. The killing of several hundred Palestinians at the Sabra and Shatila refugee camp by Christian Phalangists is said to be “one of the worst atrocities of nearly a century of conflict in the Middle East.” The Sabra and Shatila massacre occurred just months after Hafez Assad’s slaughter of upwards of 38,000 Syrians in the city of Hama. Still more bloody, the Iran-Iraq war of the 1980s took hundreds of thousands of lives, and during these same years, two hundred thousand Kurds were annihilated by Saddam Hussein.
One wonders, what specifically BBC’s yardstick is for “worst atrocities”? The phrase is certainly not applied to the terrorist campaigns fomented and underwritten by Yasser Arafat. His seminal role in modern terrorism is hidden in language referring to involvement in “a series of attacks on Israeli and other targets.” The only such “attack” noted is that at the 1972 Olympics, which killed 11 Israeli athletes. Rather, Arafat and the Palestinians are cast generally as resistance fighters on the road to peace.
Beyond these and innumerable other serious distortions in the time-line section, there are multiple additional false and misleading articles for Web visitors. One is a “Q & A” piece about the road map. In no part of the article does the word “terror” appear to indicate the central requirement that Palestinian violence be halted. Yet the road map itself uses some form of the word “terror” 10 times, including calling on Palestinians to confiscate illegal weapons and dismantle the terrorist infrastructure.
The BBC is now caught up in a struggle with the British government concerning the network’s distortion of events in Iraq, biased attacks on British policy and its possible role in driving a British weapons expert to suicide. Perhaps the British government will now rethink the future of the propagandistic network it has created.
Andrea Levin is Executive Director of CAMERA, Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America
As a fan of Teillard and Emerson, I hope you don’t forget about the other Jesuit media theorist, Walter Ong, who died quite recently; he was a contemporary and colleague of Marshall McLuhan who said “The writer’s audience is always a fiction”, and wrote ‘Orality and Literacy: The Technologizing of the Word’.
I have created a tribute weblog with some quotes and links, and I’m hoping anyone with comments, and quotes might post them.
The specifics of the Kelly affair are out of my reach and I can’t fully judge it.
I do think that the BBC has unfairly maligned Tony Blair over and over again.
Was the BBC right in the case of Kelly? Perhaps.
But the BBC has shown an obsessively wrong-headed bias against Tony Blair and also the Iraq war effort.
In so doing they look ridiculous– the BBC has spent far more time attacking Blair and the Iraq war than it has every spent attacking Saddam Hussein for his monstrous rule in Iraq.
The far-Left, and the BBC as well, have lost all perspective and proportion on the Iraq issue.
Too often, people like Blair are vilified, and yet the BBC would seem content to let Saddam Hussein keep mass-murdering and mass-torturing for years to come if this preserved the ‘peace’.
In my view this is topsy-turvey Leftism.
My version of Leftism is glad to see the US and British Armies dismantling Husseins despicable regime once and for all.
George Bush may be after the oil.
But let him have his oil if it means liberating 25 million people and establishing a large foothold of Democracy in the Arab world!!
In the old days (World War II) the Left had the Realpolitick (pragmatic savvy) to side with the American Right in going after the fascists.
Similar common cause should have been found today in going after Saddam Hussein and his monstrous Baath party.
P.S. I feel compassion for the folks at CAMERA but I don’t completely agree with them.
My pro-Iraq War stance is different from theirs (although I abhor the suicide bombing, I also abhor Sharons’ excesses).
Hamas is a sick and evil organization as well and it really doesn’t bug me that much when Hamas leaders are killed (although there needs to be an equitable settlement with the Palestian people and Jewish settlements are going to have to go in all fairness).
Ooops, I inadvertently spliced two unrelated sentences together.
I meant to say, I may be pro-Iraq war, but I differ with CAMERA in some ways on Israel/Palestine.
I am not rabidly pro-palistinian and I am staunchly in favor of Israels right to exist.
But land must be traded for peace and that position is as much pro-Israeli as much as it is pro-Palestinian.
WBUR does seems sometimes to a bit partisan on the issue, but I believe in a point of view that sees the suffering on both sides, **while condeming terrorism utterly.
I don’t know if my download failed in some way or if Mr. Lydon had some technical problems, but the audio quality of this interview seems much lower than his others. Has anybody else noticed this? I’m thinking I should re-download the mp3 and try again.
cory
I stay at home every day and long for communication with some external source of interesting and informative ideas. I recently met an Iranian accountant, trained in the US, who went back to work in the Iranian Medical System. He came back to the US in rejection of the on-the-job treatment by religious managers in the system. His reaction is exactly in tune with this BLOG’s conclusions. Now, this same man is running a small delicatessen in my neigborhood. All his training is wasted. Except, he knows how to make accurate change, and a damned good sandwich. Now I understant why. Strange concantenation of events.
Man I wish someone would walk into Camera’s office and start shooting. These scumbags jsut can’t deal with the fact that they are on the LOSING team – Andrea WAKE UP -
Robert Fisk (aka Baghdad Bob II, since his reports, like the statements made by the former Iraqi information minister, routinely stray from the truth) is one of the most biased journalists around. Watch groups, too many to mention, have exposed the lies and glaring distortions found in his coverage of the Middle East. What makes him any more credible now?
You obviously admire him, Chris, but the “brave eye” you praise is a jaundiced one.
I try to respect reports from both sides however biased, and try to come to conclusions based on a juxtapostion of evidence between both sides.
Trying to be as objective as possible, Fisk and Gilligan were two of the most irresponsbile reporters covering the Iraq war. I would say comparable to Geraldo and Bill O’Reily on the right.
That Fisk said the war was based on lies does not suprise me. What I would like to ask him, is if his reports could hold up to the same kind of scrutiny the BBC is facing over the “sexed up” dossier claims.
I think Fisk has been as loose with the facts, if not moreso than Gilligan, and for him to say the war was based on lies is almost laughable to be honest. Sorry for the negative comments, but have to say it like it is.
I ask the first two commenters if they would care to address a specific statement from the Fisk audio clip, or if they prefer only to make vague and unsubstantiated allegations that Fisk is not credible?
I myself have never traveled outside the United States, while Fisk has visited various parts of the Middle East, and has lived in Lebanon for a number of years. I am therefore in no position to personally verify or dispute any claim that Fisk might make, nor any counterclaim made by a critic.
Again I ask the first two commenters: have they ever visited the Middle East? Can they personally dispute any of Fisk’s claims, or do they also rely on second-hand information? And can they tell me which of Fisk’s critics have first-hand experience of the Middle East, and which are themselves only hearing about it second-hand?
Right on Chris Williams! Fisk is the most experienced reporter in the Middle East. His book ,”Pity the Nation: The Abduction of Lebanon should be required reading for the first two comentators who obviously don’t have a clue. Someone should write a book “Pity the Nation: The Abduction of US Foreign Policy by the neocon forces of evil in the Pentagon.” In the meantime the US taxpay is being ripped off in the most vicious way.
Here’s one from the web: Via Aziz Poonwalla comes this hard-to-verify but certainly disturbing tale from the cousin of an Iraqi engineer:
As May was drawing to a close, his manager told him that someone from the CPA wanted the company to estimate the building costs of replacing the New Diyala Bridge on the South East end of Baghdad. He got his team together, they went out and assessed the damage, decided it wasn’t too extensive, but it would be costly. They did the necessary tests and analyses (mumblings about soil composition and water depth, expansion joints and girders) and came up with a number they tentatively put forward- $300,000. This included new plans and designs, raw materials (quite cheap in Iraq), labor, contractors, travel expenses, etc.
Let’s pretend my cousin is a dolt. Let’s pretend he hasn’t been working with bridges for over 17 years. Let’s pretend he didn’t work on replacing at least 20 of the 133 bridges damaged during the first Gulf War. Let’s pretend he’s wrong and the cost of rebuilding this bridge is four times the number they estimated- let’s pretend it will actually cost $1,200,000. Let’s just use our imagination.
A week later, the New Diyala Bridge contract was given to an American company. This particular company estimated the cost of rebuilding the bridge would be around- brace yourselves- $50,000,000 !!
RIGHT ON indeed, these Fisk bashers sure are quick! Its almost as if they are monitoring Chris’s site. Fisk is one of the only reporters who is wiling to take on the other occupying power in the middle east – the one most Fisk critics would rather not have us even mention!
Thank you chris for this! And Thank you Mr. Fisk for doing what you do!
It is funny that neither one of our two instanaysayers even bother to back up a single one of their foul smelling gripes.
the truth is out there .. er if you can get past the check points, or dodge the IDF bullets, and the bulldozers, and the tanks, and the missles that might decapitate you on accident – but hey – like I said the truth IS OUT THERE
“This so called september dossier which Blair continues to pathetically defend was mendacious… They could not even be historically accurate about things that happened 10 years earlier, so how can we trust them on the WMD account.” – Robert Fisk
Well I would like to hold Robert Fisk to the same standard of factual responsibility. I will give you 5 blatant errors he has reported recently, if he will agree to address them.
I am not out to slander him, he should just be as responsible with the facts when he accuses others of being “mendacious”.
Cog, I certainly agree with your wish to hold Fisk responsible for his reporting. That’s fair and just. I hope you’ll consider sharing his reporting errors with us, as well as the Foreign Desk at the Independent: foreigneditor@independent.co.uk
If Fisk doesn’t respond then perhaps someone else can.
And in order to make clear what “standard of factual responsibility” you wish to hold Fisk to, here is the complete passage from which you quoted him.
CHRIS LYDON: Robert Fisk, we’re very eager to get an independent view of this showdown between the BBC and Tony Blair, on sexed-up intelligence, on Armageddon weapons, on sexed-up news reporting. What does it look like to you?
ROBERT FISK: Well, from where I am, which is Beirut, which is in the Middle East, which isn’t that far from Baghdad, it looks like a distraction. Um, you know, I remember when the first so-called “dossier” — how the British love the word “dossier” — came out, last September, I thought to myself when I read it, this is a very, very odd document. It was supposedly 50 pages, but only fifteen, one-five, of those pages dealt with weapons of mass destruction. And even then they were dotted with words like “may have,” “could have,” “would have.” The rest of the pages were about Saddam Hussein’s history, the history of Iraq, the history of the British intelligence services, and indeed the history, which is verifiable and correct, of Saddam’s human rights abuses. Even in this element this so-called “September dossier,” which Blair continues to pathetically defend, was mendacious. For example, in one extract it says that, um, in the city of Basra, in the spring of 1991, uh, Shiite Muslims of Iraq staged riots — I use the word “riots,” that’s what they called them — against the Saddam regime, and were ruthless–ruthlessly repressed, with many thousands of dead. Now, the repression and the dead are correct. What the British left out was, this–these weren’t riots, this was a rebellion encouraged by President George Bush Senior and by the British government. But they deleted that, even–they couldn’t even be accurate and historically honest about events that had occurred more than ten years before. So how could we trust them on the weapons of mass destruction? This was the big issue when the dossier came out.
To LninYo:
You’re right there buddy! This is exactly what we did with Germany and Japan – Go to war so we can bilk their countries out of every cent. We spent countless lives so we could destroy those stupid countries just so we could give our buddies some cush jobs for too much money.
I don’t know who you think is running this country but just to be sure you’re up to date… it is no longer Bill Clinton. Most of us these days don’t consider spending the lives of our brothers and fathers and mothers and sisters for wealthy rebuilding contracts and to indicate that all of the people required to sign on within Washington would do so is just silly. I could imagine a whacko or two but all of them? I can say this, while folks like you make these sorts of claims, I’m glad we have leadership who will continue to do what is right and cautious for us. They’re not perfect by any stretch but they don’t spend our troops’ lives for contracts.
If you look at the mutual eye contact in the picture that goes with this topic, you can see how engaging Chris Lydon is and why he consistently finds the passions in his guests and draws them out.
Chris isn’t merely about the presentation of knowledge, he always communicates the love and excitement for the pursuit of knowledge as well.
Intellectualism tends to get stereotyped in the U.S.A. as dry and overly heady.
But Lydon embodies the passionate hunger of the intellect and in so doing, ignites both guest and audience.
Please try to interview Matthew Parris columnist and former sketchwriter for the Times. He’s a conservative who opposed the war in Iraq on grounds of national interest.
He also writes regularly for the Spectator. His take is almost always refreshing, and his analysis of Alastair Campbell is trenchant.
His best stuff is for the Times and not available on-line anymore, but anyone with access to Lexis should be able to get it.
Christopher, that you would dishonestly give Fisk a credibility undeserved by his long record of proven lies, is one more reason why I’m thankful that you are no longer on the radio.
Having listened to Fisk just now, and having been an occassional reader of his stuff, I’m wondering just what the heck is so objectionable – here, in the context of this comments box regarding this interview?
I do wish, Chris, that you had been a little tougher on the man. The questions that were begging to be asked – well, now that the Americans and the British are in this rat’s nest – what’s worse? – walking away, sticking it out, or is there a third option? – you failed to ask. Why is building a democracy in Iraq such a self-evident impossibilty? Can you, Fisk, draw any parallel between this ‘occupation’ – its dangers, its ill-conceived nature -whatever – and your time spent in Ulster? Do you think Bush and Blair visiting Northern Ireland together -in what? April? in the days leading up to the invasion of Iraq? – might not have had something to do with Anglo-American foreknowledge of the prospects of a long, drawn out urban guerrila war? And so on…
And why – when you have a reporter on the line, who is ‘there’, or close by, in the Middle East, whose main strength is in giving a reader a sense of the scene, in providing details, why would you not at least try to get some sense of what things are like in Iraq at the present time. For Iraqi shopkeepers Coalition troops. Bagdhad taxi drivers. Why the focus on the ’sexed up’ dossier? which is a distraction, and something he’s not on top of anyway.
Although I’m probably in complete disagreement with any of the other critics in this box regarding Fisk’s value as a reporter and journalist, I did find this interview to be a bit of a puff piece.
Chris, you’re onto a good thing here. But I truly wish you’d stop trying to make friends with your subjects and begin conducting interviews. This isn’t public radio where everyone needs to be – to use a Fiskism – effete.
It’s BlogWorld.
I agree with bmo on that one. less chummy, more crummy (or whatever). hit’em hard. while you got people’s attention.
Tom: despite what Fox News would tell you, “marshall” plan wasn’t to introduce democracies into those two countries. They were proto empires that needed to be neutralized. You had already annihiliated the two countries’ civilians and topped it up with criminal Noo-Kew-Luhr bombings which was just to show the world you were ready to use those monstrous weapons (of mass destrucion?). That was the least the “allied” criminals could do to silence their own conscience for murdering millions of civilians. Maybe you have forgotton the firebombings of dresden, and japanese cities too.. how convenient.
The “liberators” are in Iraq to do one thing. Rape a nation (that they incidentally created during another imperial slaughter of the people) and rob (ROB yes.. Loot) its oil resources. To short circuit the process and be the sellers and buyerers of the oil. This is not a rant against american troops (who by no means are doing a noble thing, but they are just as much a victim of this junta as are the Iraqi people).
The objective is to move the money around from one part of the western economy to the other and in the process get the oil. All the Iraqi’s are gonna be left with, aside from a big dung-bag, would be the “records” of how the money was spent. Without of course, anything to show for it. It all goes up in smoke. Just like it does in Venezuela, Saudi Arabia, Nigeria.. pick any oil-producing country. If it doesn’t have West’s cronies (numbering only in thousands – but criminal and ruthless to the core) running the show, they are labelled thugs and “un-democratic” (by even what you would call “leftist” media such as new-york-times) . Maybe the world “chavez” rings a bell? Would “Mossadegh” or “Allende” be too taxing right at this moment?
The only problem is that Iraqis have refused (so far) to roll over and play dead (pardon the pun). First you gotta have an environment suitable for looting and plunder. Unfortunately, the current regime in D.C. is ideologically and intellectually incapable of doing that. They like the _idea_ of looting, but they don’t know how to actually do it. For this they must turn to the master criminals for the past 300 years. The British.
Irony of ironies.. every empire turns its oppression to its own “people” sooner or later. If you think “PATRIOT” act may be a teeny bit stepping on your rights (that you probably have already given up in an attempt to be secure from your own Paranoia) Wait till the “PATRIOT FOR DUMMIES” and “COMPLETE IDIOTS ACT FOR PATRIOTICITY” shows up in yer face. And all _you_ wanted was a little security.
The lies that you tell yourself will not exonerate you from your duties as a citizen. You will be judged by what you did or did not do as a citizen of not a totally firked democracy. Where you could have gained control thru the outlets available but you didn’t and instead chose to let vultures feed you with carrion that you willingly took for mannah. Your excuses to your descendants will sound as hollow as the excuses of the german civilians that implicitly supported the genocide and the holocaust. Last time there were actual camps.. this time there are “virutal death camps” spreading across whole nations.. and what do you have to say in your defense? you don’t even know that you are part of the killings.
stay tuned for turbulence as Mr. “President” runs the country into the ground once again.. D’OH!!!!
P.S. Your mention of “your” “Leadership” is so familiar. Maybe it is North Korea? or the old Stalinists that you sounded like? (or perhaps even Nazi’s?) This unfortunate, unelected, incompetent “leadership” that you crow about should provide a lot of entertainment (grotesque at best) for generations to come, not only here at home for that matter. To be the international laughing stock is another thing altogether, especially when you happen to be the most violent and most powerful country on the bloody planet (again.. no pun intended). I suppose guns can not bring you respect just like they couldn’t bring respect to Saddam and his cronies.
Lol, we are there to rape Iraq and rob its natural resources, and conservatives are fascist [love the Nazi germany reference].
Two of the most ridiculous and unfounded arguments, much in the vain of Robert Fisk’s reporting. Bravo.
Importing gas to help with the fuel crisis, trying to fast track an Iraqi police/militia force that respects human rights, trying to instill a representative democracy…. yes, these are things that didn’t work in Nazi Germany LninYo.
No you’re there to give them democracy because they are just all loin-cloth wearing, beard-growing, kinda funny smelling, desert-iguana huntin know nothing lesser people (almost like your pets that you want to shave and put clothes on to make’m look like you) that YOU, in all YOUR wisdom, have to go and fuck-in-the-internal-affaires-with. Because its your G*D given right.. RIGHT?
Took you 20 years to give them the Saddam govt. that murdered and chemical bombed their asses. Lets see how long it takes for you to teach them human rights.. Now THAT is hilarious. Starting a Concentration Camp in the Bay of americans in Cuba and going round the world telling others about human rights _that_ is laughable.
Maybe you ought to check out the Amnesty International website and do a search on your favorite Fascist state. I’m sure you’ll find plenty of baseless leftist propaganda which you cal laugh at to your hearts content.
Not nearly as ridiculous as believing USA is there for Noble purposes. And please don’t invvoke the troops. You have blackmailed America enough dragging the deadbodies of kids that the fascists-in-conservativ’s clothing don’t have the NUTS enough to emulate and go fight and die in unkown lands. Most of you DOOM playin’ generals rather do it from behind the warm glow of Fox News. And leave the ugly business of dying (for what you are duped into believing as a Noble cause) to someone else.
“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win!”
step 3 anyone? Now it might be helpful to actually provide counter arguments as opposed to just kind-heartedly pointing to the apparent comedic potentials of my comments Cog!
“Bmo” said: “Chris, I wish you would have been a little tougher on the man[i.e.Fisk].”
Of course, Chris challenging incredulous nonsense coming from a Leftie in the same way he would challenge incredulous nonsense coming from a conservative; would be the intellectually honest thing to do. But we are talking about Chris Lydon after all. His idea of intellectual honesty is to claim that a position on how much Public radio revenue he is “entitled” to, has “nothing at all to do with money”.
The egomanical “sage” of New Haven states that Don DeLillo wouldn’t have been posssible but for Emerson. Yeah right, just like Chris’ claim of entitlement to Public radio funds, had “nothing at all to do with money”.
That you have no outrage for the nations that led the military support for Saddam pre-GW1 [Russia, China, France] or post-GW1 [(allegedly) Russia, Jordan, Germany, France)] just demonstrates your bias.
Bias much in the vain of an average Robert Fisk report.
Audio CD would be a great idea if you can get the original source material and don’t have to convert the MP3s to CDDA.
But do keep in mind that the set so far is about 5 hours and an audio CD only holds an hour of sound. So now you’re talking about a 5-CD set.
Ignore that last post. I meant to reply to Dave Winer’s post elsewhere that referred to this post and I wasn’t paying attention. Just got a new aggregator and can’t do a thing with it.
–Hal
(1) The Pentagon is not responsible for defending the country from internal attacks. And it’s a good thing too, having to keep the FBI on the ‘right side’ of the line between effectivness and paranoid/oppression is hard enough.
(2) A second point on the Pentagon not being able to defend the Pentagon: remember the Vincennes? Or, how many harmless airliners are you willing to shoot down to get all of the hijacked airlines? To get 90% of the hijacked airliners? 50%? (Lucky for us we don’t have that many WTC’s and Pentagons to ram.)
Anonymous|September 11, 2003 at 12:41 am|Permalink
This audioblogging thing is all very well, but .20 gigas? And at least 70 percent of spoken discourse is “um,” “er,” “ah,” [cough], “like,” and “y’know.” Not to mention ambient noise. You must be rolling in bandwidth up there at the Crimson Boosters Club! Transcripts? A vellum binding would give it that real feel of an historical document!
I heard part one and two with no problems. Very interesting. Thanks. Hope you will include it on the list of interviews and in the CD set or whatever is made possible (even if it ends up being a typed transcript!) Five hours is too long for a single download but I will download it if no alternative is made possible. Thanks again. Much appreciated.
Anonymous|September 13, 2003 at 12:21 am|Permalink
What the hell is a “blog zeitgeist”?!?!? More vacuous attempts at profoundity from our resident psuedo-”intellectual”.
Anonymous|September 13, 2003 at 11:05 pm|Permalink
Yeah, it’s so easy to sling barbs from behind a computer screen, ain’t it?
Anonymous|September 14, 2003 at 12:56 am|Permalink
This is OT but I just wanted to say that I downloaded the complete collected interviews yesterday, and made a CD of them that I have been listening to in my car.
Wow.
The best thing about the interviews is that they fire off so many of my neurons listening to them. It’s the opposite of the sedating, numbing, “receive only” character of a lot of media. I’ve been blogging a few of the ideas that occured to me while listening.
Anonymous|September 14, 2003 at 12:57 am|Permalink
I found this downright inspirational! Thanks to both interviewer and interviewee — as Joi says, I haven’t been this excited since I first found the Internet…
The interviews are fantastic but Mr. Lydon needs someone to help him work out the kinks in his setup. The sound quality in a couple of his inteviews has made them almost unlistenable to me. I don’t know enough about recording and encoding to make any suggestions, but I hope somebody has something to offer.
I hate to criticise a gift, but I have a feeling Mr. Lydon won’t take offense.
Joi’s passion for the communciation aspect of technology has bridged a lot of people together who normally might not of been so inclined before. Joi’s passion in itself is incredible to watch. And just what does a girl have to do to get an interview with the illustrious Lyndon? hmmm?
Anonymous|September 17, 2003 at 11:57 am|Permalink
I was just corresponding with Enoch Choi over at Medmusings about listening to the collected interviews. We both agreed that we loved the Real Live Preacher interview.
What occurred to me while I was commenting on Enoch’s post was just how much you have improved your grasp and confidence in the technical arena. Back when you and Mary were doing the Connection, I never really felt that your technology shows were among your best, because I thought you weren’t trusting your gut to stand up to the guest. If someone called in and claimed that Muslims bombed themselves in the marketplace, then you’d call them on it. But I found that a lot of the technical guests got away with grandstanding, misattribution, and lazy utopian blather (Okay, I admit it, I’m thinking of Richard Stallman, who forced every caller to call Linux GnuLinux, which is about as self-aggrandizing as Henry Ford making people call the Space Shuttle the FordShuttle because they both have combustion engines and come in only one color scheme).
This interview with Sifry is perfect proof of how far you’ve come both in understanding the technical issues and in developing your gut instinct on what kinds of questions to go after in the technical arena. It’s a big achievement to take in and be able to use such a large new area of foreign knowledge; let’s face it, most people just stick to what they started out knowing and are satisfied not to go further than that. It’s admirable to see anybody working at a field of knowledge they didn’t hail from and not giving up.
Why isn’t anyone interviewing Dennis Kucinich? I listnend to his comments in one of the disscussions involving all the candidates and he seemed to be the only one speaking for the real working Americans. It seems the whole blogging world is gushing over Howard Dean while the other candidates are just being ignored. How is this different from CNN ignoring candidates they don’t like? they have their Pets and you have yours. The thing that seems to make Dean so special is that he was able to get people to pay. But the “new new media” needs to give a fair chance to all folks. Not the ones they like.
Just a little mirror for all the Blogging-pom-pom shakers. Take a look in the mirror. and try to be fair and balanced. (not a’la the “Lying Liars”, but for real, for a change).
Maybe you should try to get Dennis Kucinich in here yer blog pages Chris?
I found Elaine Scarry’s contrast between the action oriented response of the passengers on the plane headed for the Pentagon versus the DoD’s lack of response in defending the Pentagon itself interesting, although I assume Ms. Scarry is a philosopher rather than a military decision maker. SUre, today, any stray plane with the characteristics she defines would be shot down, but on 9/10/01 our world was different.
I was more interested in Elaine Scarry’s comments on the hypocrisy of US insistence that other countries be invaded because they possess Weapons of Mass Distruction while the US undoubtedly possess the world’s largest collection of WMDs. We see now, that no WMDs have been found, that other reasons for the invasion of Iraq are being invented. Don’t get me wrong: Sadam was a bad guy and deserved to be ousted, but, let’s be truthful about why we do things.
I’d say Krugman’s got it right about blogs and journalsim. With few exceptions, blogs are more like op-ed pieces than news reporting. Opinion is one of the least valuable services of journalism; straight news reporting and analysis are more useful. I’d rather filter the news through my own value system than to receive it pre-filtered by others’. When I’m looking for news or analysis, does it make more sense for me to get it from a part-time blogger who’s relying on second- or third- or fourth-hand information and has had at most a couple of hours’ free time to do some research, or from a fulltime, paid and trained journalist who has direct access to the people and places that are making the news? And I don’t mean to naively imply that mainstream news reporting is “objective” or “impartial,” I know it’s not, but in a mainstream news organization there’s usually at least an attempt to make it so (except by Fox, CNN, and the other razzle-dazzlers out there).
But anyway, I’m really glad you posted this interview, as Krugman is in fact the only op-ed columnist I ever bother reading; he’s mostly brilliant.
Well, relying on a typo or a misquote is often the proof for a conspiracy isnt it?
It is weird that you focus on a typo I made on a messageboard, while ignoring factual errors in Fisk columns that have made him a laughingstock among credible journalists.
“Fisking” someone is now synonymous with fact checking an error filled report.
Great interview. Between the two of you, Gleick and Lydon, you bring out the enormous difference between Newton’s time and ours–and it all happened so gradually, almost imperceptibly over the intervening years. If one object of the interview is that the listener should go out and get the book, that will happen this afternoon out here! Looking forward to reading it, and may even be driven back to re-reading “Chaos,” Jim Gleick’s wonderful earlier book.
christopher,
seconding lnin yo’s comment, i’d love to be able to listen to you interview dennis kucinich… i hope you will consider it. thanks! love your site…
Anonymous|September 28, 2003 at 10:15 pm|Permalink
Little Roman History Lesson.
Hadrian’s combat service was in the 1st and 2nd Dacian Wars, North of the Danube.
Hadrian engineered his succession to the purple after Trajan’s death, ultimately having to execute a good number of Trajan’s generals to make it stick. He then spent a very high percentage of his reign traveling amongst the army, constantly reviewing them.
Notice that Hadrian did not abandon Dacia. In fact, he campaigned against the Sarmatians there as Emperor.
Hadrian had no sympathy for the problems of the Jews, and brutally suppressed the revolt of Bar-Kochba. The diaspora pretty much dates to this period.
The provinces that Hadrian abandoned were largely reoccupied by the Emperor Septimus Severus.
And finally, don’t get your history from a NOVEL.
Anonymous|September 28, 2003 at 10:39 pm|Permalink
I love Clark’s great insight. He says “the killing needs to stop” with respect to the Israeli/Arab terrorist conflict. No kidding?!? Gee, if I had thought of that I’d be running for President. Too bad I’m not 35 yet.
Seriously, Clark is a policy lightweight. And even if you don’t agree, he is a tool/puppet for Bill and Hillary Clinton, being “one of the rising stars of the Democratic party.” Funny, I didn’t know that rising stars could have no political experience and have just joined the party within the last few weeks. Indeed.
This guy is a joke. If the Democratic Party wants a credible military man who brings experience and composure to the table, they should select John Kerry over Clark.
Anonymous|September 28, 2003 at 11:01 pm|Permalink
I loved “Memoirs of Hadrian”, but if Calrk shares Hadrian’s taste for young male lovers he’s gonna lose.
More seriously, I don’t see that Mesopotamia = Overstretch for Hadrain means that Mesopotamia = Overstretch for Bush. We may have some problems with overstretch right now, but the way to handle them, in my opinion, is to pull troops out of Germany, Turkey, maybe even S Korea, not abandon Iraq. The one thing Bush understood and has done right in the war on terror is take the war into the Middle East.
Anonymous|September 28, 2003 at 11:24 pm|Permalink
Sorry, but I can’t buy the image of Wesley Clark the warrior-sage. His actions in Bosnia were haphazard at best; his arrogance strained relations with our allies; he was relieved of duty early; his troops were contemptuous of him; and he was deliberately snubbed by his superiors. Hugh Shelton specifically accused him of problems of character. Clark is in no sense a Hadrian for our day, but rather an opportunist saying whatever he needs to say to please the people in power at the time.
“We’d all have been more suspicious of the Bush and Blair neo-imperial fantasists, spinning their Anglo-American self-esteem into a Middle Eastern quagmire, . . .”
Puhleeze. Do you really talk like this in real life? Are you at all aware that the vast majority of the USA doesn’t? Just don’t be surprised when Howard Dean gets the same % of the vote as McGovern . . .
I was frustrated by Dave’s answer to the “what is metadata, why is it important?” question, because he jumped right to RSS. He missed an opportunity to describe all the metadata in the world that we’re already familiar with, but don’t call “metadata”. In response, I wrote an essay about it:
Anonymous|September 29, 2003 at 12:22 pm|Permalink
Try as one may to ascribe depth and meaning to Clark’s campaign statements, that dog just don’t hunt. Clark was brought in to the race by the Democrat status-quo (i.e. Bill Clinton and Terry McAuliffe) for one reason only: to blunt the Howard Dean campaign. The term “sock puppet” has been used; I think “ventriloquist’s dummy” might be closer to the truth.
Anonymous|September 29, 2003 at 12:34 pm|Permalink
I don’t have a strong opinion about Wesley Clark. I like Chris’ analysis, regardless of the reality of Hadrian, the ideas quoted in his commentary are ones that I think are substantial. I read the comment from Hugh Shelton and want to warn everyone that I think it obvious from his response that he has an axe to grind and that his disparagement was dishonorable.
He made a bad accusation about a fellow soldier’s character as inuendo, without justification or details that can be evaluated. If one are not able to complete such an accusation, then people of integrity leave it out. It’s hard to imagine Clark showing worse character than that.
I would agree with “eric”’s comments. Additionally, I would note that Hadrian — by most estimates, contemporary and modern, the worst of the “good emperors” — was not the “symbolic” leader of the world. He really was the leader of the world, or as much of it as the Romans cared to acknowledge — as the record of executions and wars that “eric” refers to shows.
A much more disturbing thought — and with rather more to back it up — is that America today is not to be equated with the Roman Empire of Trajan, but with the Roman Republic just before its death throes under the Gracchi began. Clark is not be equated with Hadrian, but with Marius, the populist general who politicized the Roman army, and who militarized Roman politics. The thought of Clark being the first in a line of political generals that will end, as the same time this century does, in an American Octavian, might give his supporters pause.
Anonymous|September 30, 2003 at 11:36 am|Permalink
EGAD! another 4 years of Dick/Bush/Feld.. Thank-ye Clarke! But ultimately the Democrats are to blame to allow for this. Systems fail because systems have decayed, and they cannot counter.
I concur with John. The NeoCons might think that this is the start of their empire, but I would think the reality is far from it. I don’t think the dismantling will happen in 100 years, but give it 200 years, and a couple more shrub type presidencies, and you got yerself a “well done” republic!
Bon Appetit!
P.S. Chris, Please!
Anonymous|September 30, 2003 at 12:30 pm|Permalink
Whatever critiques and parallells there are, one thing is certain. The neocons have started moving us from democratic republic to a conquering empire. There is no need for us to follow Rome nor Napolean into history. We already are the most influencial country in history (no need to follow someone else). We need AMERICAN solutions based on AMERICAN principles. True patriots understand this. Therefore, neocons are not in our tradition.
The interviews are fantastic but Mr. Lydon needs someone to help him work out the kinks in his setup
I think the poor sound quality comes from the MP3s being too compressed, but there’s no easy way around that problem because better-quality files would be even larger and take longer to download than they do now. Splitting the files into smaller parts is one solution, and I’ve noticed some of the recent interviews are done that way. The sound quality on the Krugman interview is much better.
MP4 (AAC format) might be a better solution, providing better sound quality in smaller files, but most people haven’t yet made the free upgrade to their QuickTime plugins to be able to listen to it.
The other issue I’ve noticed here is that the skybuilders server (which serves up the MP3s on this site) is very sluggish…it can take me 10 minutes to download an MP3 even on a fast DSL or cable connection. Normally a file of that size should take at most a minute or two to download.
Anonymous|September 30, 2003 at 10:13 pm|Permalink
You’re kidding?
Elizabeth Spiers is a perfect storm of a media celebrity who has managed to become this moment’s ‘it’ girl in that infamous echo chamber/infinite regress known as Manhattan. She’s no Dorothy Parker or Fran Lebovitz. She’s not even a Tina Brown….
What’s next a paen to the genius of Bonnie Fuller?
LninYo’s post was fantastic. Even though Ken Layne’s quote “we can fact-check your ass” was a great piece of writing, it doesn’t make blogs journalism. I actually wished we see more great writing with blogs and less linking. If I want links to articles I can go to Google News.
August 2003 The Real Sheet newsletter
Boston Public Library Professional Staff Association
Volume 32, Number 5
“President’s Message: Your Voices
by Serena Enger, Reader and Information Services
Voices of Professional Librarian Committed to Public Service
…
Staff from all divisions concerned about the Research Library’s status
offered the following concerns:
What are our obligations as a member
of the Association of Research Libraries?.
Are we fulfilling obligations when we:
…
. Fail to aggressively promote our resources through an active formal program
of classes and advertising, staff training, and scholarly programs as the
New York Public Library has done in its research division?…
…”
Ask for August 2003 The Real Sheet newsletter article pages 1-6
available by email from the text editor word processing file.
Contact Boston Public Library Professional Staff Association President
Serena Enger senger at bpl dot org
Shedding Light On a Symbol Of Iraqi Terror
Ex-Prisoners Describe Horrors, Call for Justice
By Peter Finn
Washington Post Foreign Service
Monday, October 6, 2003; Page A01
ABU GHRAIB, Iraq — Prisoners were brought to Iraq’s most feared prison in an ice-cream truck, a soft cone painted on its side. After sentencing at the nearby Revolutionary Court, following a perfunctory trial, the prisoners were hustled outside and loaded in the back.
“We were waddling like penguins because of the torture,” recalled Ahmed Mohammed Baqer Attar, a 41-year-old Baghdad physician. “And then we saw an old ice-cream truck.”
“It’s hard to believe,” he continued, a smoker’s laugh rising from his chest. “But everything was hard to believe.”
On the short ride to the prison, a forbidding structure that sprawls over 280 acres about 20 miles west of Baghdad, the men who had just been sentenced to death kissed those who had received jail terms and begged them to get word of their fate to their families. “They were weeping and trembling and they made us swear,” said Karim Hassan Jabbar, 45, another physician who spent nine years in the prison.
In the shuddering whispers of this formerly closed society, Abu Ghraib was known as a colossal dungeon where the silent screams of its captives became the symbol of state terror. Abu Ghraib was the Iraqi gulag.
Some of those in the ice-cream van, facing 20 years in this prison rather than death, wondered if they were the unlucky ones. “I felt such agony, such despair, it felt like a knife turning in my stomach,” said Hakem Kharqani, 43, of the moment he crossed the prison’s threshold in 1982. He had already endured torture at the headquarters of the secret police in Baghdad, including electric shock. He feared it would continue without end.
For thousands of political prisoners crudely executed by hanging in its ghoulish death chamber, Abu Ghraib was the final station in an excruciatingly brutal system. Thousands more who eluded the hangman were forced to survive in overcrowded, putrescent, disease-infested cells where the threat of violence, including beatings, torture and summary execution, was ever-present.
Today, Abu Ghraib’s political prisoners are giving witness to the apparatus of repression under former president Saddam Hussein. The survivors are providing detailed, firsthand testimony, one at a time, about the system’s capricious barbarism. A more complete historical accounting is likely to take years. The prospect of trials, both for the country’s onetime leadership and its functionaries, remains distant.
Among survivors, there is a strong desire that the pain of Abu Ghraib not be forgotten. They want a new legal system to exact retribution, and they want the lessons of the past to be etched into memory as a guarantee of Iraq’s future freedom.
“The prisoners are Iraq’s best teachers,” said Kharqani.
Arrest and Torture
The secret police, dressed in civilian clothes, came for Kharqani at home. It was just hours after an evening celebration at Baghdad’s Alwiya club where his civil engineering class marked its graduation. Upon his return from the club, his family showered him with chocolates, an Iraqi tradition. He was the first among seven children to get a university degree.
Away from the neighborhood, in the back of the vehicle, Kharqani was blindfolded and handcuffed. He was taken to the headquarters of the Directorate of General Security, where he was chained to a radiator in a corridor outside interrogation rooms, a hood still over his head. He could hear the screams and moans of prisoners undergoing questioning.
“They softened you up by forcing you to listen,” said Attar, who was arrested after he was summoned from a class on microorganisms to the deputy dean’s office at Kufa University. Two agents quietly led him away and then drove him to Baghdad.
Occasionally, a passing guard whacked the shackled prisoners with a stick. They flinched at footsteps, barely breathing in their shrouded darkness. Some prisoners had already soiled their pants.
After several hours, the prisoners were brought into an interrogation room. The questions began with the routine: name, age, occupation. Then, an offer to confess now, and avoid the worst. Some prisoners, like Kharqani, had no sense of the charges against them. Others, like Attar, understood that admitting to membership in prohibited groups, such as the Shiite Dawa party, meant death.
The word of an informer, the forced confession of a friend or, in some cases, genuine intelligence led to the arrests. Islamic activists, Communists and Kurds all shared the same fate.
Kharqani was the unwitting acquaintance of a student involved in an Islamic opposition group accused of attacking Tariq Aziz, then deputy prime minister, with a grenade as he opened a student conference. Attar moved in religiously active student circles at his college in southern Iraq, near the holy city of Najaf.
Abdul Hussein Faraj, 47, and arrested in 1988, admits now that he was a member of the banned Dawa party.
Once one member of a family was arrested, other relatives were exposed. Kharqani’s younger brother, Raheem, later disappeared, and his father died within a day of being released from the General Security headquarters. The family suspects he was poisoned.
In the interrogation room, the hoods were removed. The prisoners had their hands tied behind their backs with cuffs and rope; Faraj’s wrist is still cross-hatched with scars from when he was bound. They were then hoisted by a rope attached to a hook in the ceiling so they dangled above the ground, the tendons in their shoulders tearing under the strain. The ball and socket in the shoulders of some prisoners completely rotated, Attar said.
The prisoners were lashed with cables. Clips were attacked to their earlobes, nipples and genitals and they were administered electric shocks. When they passed out, as they almost invariably did, they were dragged back to the corridor and cuffed again to the radiator, a dozen former prisoners recalled in interviews.
This torture continued for several days, hours at a time, even after the prisoners broke. Nearly all eventually signed forced confessions put in front of them and stamped them with a single fingerprint, their hands lifted to the paper by the guards because the prisoners no longer had the strength.
Prisoners who held out longer than expected were subject to further horrors. Faraj saw his mother dragged in front of him. His mother’s gown was roughly lifted, exposing her bare legs and underwear as the police said they would rape her. The humiliation, he said, was unbearable. Kharqani and two other inmates were forced to watch three other prisoners killed with acid.
When the torture ended, the prisoners were bundled into one of a number of fetid basement cells so crowded that prisoners created their own rotation for lying down, sitting and standing. Newcomers were greeted with the only gift in the power of the prisoners. “All the new prisoners were washed by the others,” said Attar. “You couldn’t use your hands so they helped you with the toilet,” a hole in the ground. The cells were about nine feet by six feet and each held between 35 and 40 prisoners, former inmates said.
For months, sometimes years, the prisoners said, nothing more happened. Kharqani was arrested in December 1980 and brought to trial in July 1983. They subsisted on small rations, thin soup and bread, sitting in their underwear because of the hot, pungent air. In whispers, those who had memorized the Koran recited it.
Eventually, they faced a trial before the Revolutionary Court, set up in 1968, when the Baath Party came to power, to try “spies, agents and enemies of the people.” On the morning of Attar’s trial, the court was presided over by Muslim Hadi Jubouri, who condemned the 45 prisoners assembled in front of him as “criminal scum” when the proceeding began. The signed statements obtained by the secret police lay before him.
That day 37 men were sentenced to death, five men to 20 years imprisonment and three men to seven years. The whole proceeding lasted 20 minutes, Attar said.
The Death House
Abu Ghraib’s death house, shaped like an ankle-boot, is a modest building. From the main entrance, there are 10 tiny cells on the right, which held up to 25 prisoners in each. Graffiti where prisoners scratched the passing days are still on the wall, along with pleas to Allah. “God save me,” reads one inscription, “and I will pray 70,000 times.”
Shedding Light On a Symbol Of Iraqi Terror
But there was no hope; decisions of the Revolutionary Court could not be appealed.
U.S. officials who are renovating Abu Ghraib, where 1,000 people have been incarcerated since the occupation began, estimate that 30,000 people were hanged there in the Hussein years. The total may be higher. Ahmed Abbas, a statistician at the prison from 1999 to 2001, said he recorded about 2,500 executions a year of both criminal and political prisoners. The execution rate in the prison was higher in the 1980s, when the government launched oppressive campaigns against its perceived enemies in both the Shiite and Kurdish communities, and again in 1991, when it put down revolts following uprisings in the Shiite south and Kurdish north.
In the early 1980s, the hangman was known as Abu Widad, according to former prisoners and guards. A tall muscular man, whom the prisoners called the “sword,” he carried on his hip a pistol engraved with Saddam’s name.
Executions were scheduled for Wednesdays and Sundays, beginning in the early evening and continuing for hours until, on some days, as many as 50 or 60 people had been hanged, said Kudhair Atwan Jabr, 46, an ambulance driver who witnessed the killing and then removed the bodies from the chamber.
The smell of whiskey was always on Widad’s breath, he said.
Prisoners were led bound from the cells to the building’s dank lobby where a committee, sitting at a table, read the death sentence. The execution chamber lay just beyond. They were then walked up a ramp and placed on one of two square trapdoors embedded in the floor. The doors split in the middle.
A thick noose hung from a crescent-shaped piece of steel set in the roof over each door. The U.S. occupation authority has the last two noose ropes found at Abu Ghraib, U.S. soldiers at the prison said.
The noose was placed over each prisoner’s neck and a green hood was put over his head. A lever opened the two doors and the loud clang of them banging open signaled to the prisoners still in the cells that an execution had taken place.
Another hangman, known as Akeel, who served in the late 1980s, would sometimes stand on the trapdoor with the prisoner, embrace and fall with the condemned men to ensure they died quickly. “He always hugged the thin ones and fell with them so it would be a mercy to them,” said Jabr, who worked at the prison from 1987 to 1991. The whereabouts of the executioners’ are unknown.
Sattar Latif Ridha was executed by hanging in Abu Ghraib on Jan. 30, 1982. He was 18. Recently graduated from Kadhimiya high school, he was “a handsome young man,” according to his religion and Arabic teacher, Aldin Ahmed Morad.
Ridha was one of a group of religiously active students from the same neighborhood picked up in the fall of 1981 and taken to the General Security headquarters. He was minding a friend’s store. And then he was gone. “Young people like my brother tried to fight the regime,” said Jamal Latif Ridha, Sattar’s older brother. “And Saddam destroyed them.”
In April 1993, a political prisoner, Awda Hamdan, received word from his family that his young son had died. Nearly hysterical with grief, Hamdan shook his fist at one of the ubiquitous portraits of Saddam Hussein that were hung or painted throughout Iraq’s largest prison. Someone shouted, “Don’t do it,” Kharqani recalled.
The picture fell, the glass in the frame shattering, and a brief, fearful silence descended on the hallway where it had hung. Hamdan, about 28 years old, quickly insisted it was an accident, but an orderly reported him to security officers. He was savagely beaten with sticks and iron bars and tossed in one of the solitary cells just inside his ward, known as K2, Kharqani said.
Five days later, Sabawi Ibrahim Hassan, Saddam’s maternal half-brother and director of Iraq’s General Security Directorate from 1991 to 1996, arrived at the prison.
Hamdan was dragged out to the exercise yard and tied to a stake. A group of prisoners, about 50 or 60 in all, were summoned from different wards in the political section and ordered to sit on the dirt. Hamdan was shot repeatedly by one of the bodyguards of Hassan. “Sabawi said it was a lesson,” Kharqani recalled.
A Treacherous Place
The construction of Abu Ghraib, commissioned and designed in the 1950s, was shelved until the mid-1960s, when conditions in Baghdad’s Ottoman-era prison forced the government to start the building. It was completed in 1969, just after the Baathists seized power.
“A building or a place is not evil,” said Abdul Kareem Hani, 75, who was appointed minister of labor and social affairs in 1963 and ordered the prison built. He ended up a prisoner in Abu Ghraib in the 1990s after failing to report a plot against Hussein in which a friend was involved. “The men who run it make it evil. Abu Ghraib was supposed to be a modern, progressive institution.”
Surrounded by nearly three miles of 20-foot-high, cinder-block wall and 24 watchtowers, Abu Ghraib was divided into five sections, each with its own walled security perimeter: long-term criminal; short-term criminal; the Arabs and foreigners section; the death house; and the political section, which in the 1980s was subdivided into closed and open sections.
The prison had a 20-bed hospital, large exercise yards, agricultural land to teach farming and numerous workshops, including one for sewing and embroidery, as part of its original mandate to rehabilitate prisoners. Built to house 1,500 inmates, the prison at times held 25,000 men within its walls.
After the treatment prisoners had endured at the hands of the secret police in Baghdad immediately following their arrest, including severe torture, the conditions in Abu Ghraib, bizarrely, were something of a relief. “To be put in a cell where you could breathe, where you could lie down on your back to sleep, where you talk, it seemed like a mercy,” said Abdul Kareem Shaneen, 46, who spent nine years in the prison.
But as the numbers swelled through the 1980s, medical problems, in particular, began to proliferate in filthy, lice-infested cells. The numbers in the political section grew so large that two warehouses were built to hold the overflow, including army deserters who also had their ears cut off as punishment.
“About 50 percent of the prisoners had tuberculosis,” said Attar, the physician. The prison authorities only occasionally provided medicine — streptomycin — which the prisoners who were physicians administered. “We often used one needle over and over without hot water to sterilize,” he said.
The death of a 25-year-old prisoner from tuberculosis finally sparked a revolt in 1988. The prisoner had been coughing blood for months and the guards had ignored all pleas to get him medical help. He died in his cell, and as the prison guards attempted to remove his body, his cell mates attacked the guards, forcing them to retreat and seizing their keys. They opened the other cell doors, although the 20-cell ward itself remained in lockdown.
“It was mayhem,” Attar recalled.
A delegation of officials from Baghdad decided to negotiate rather than crush the small uprising, Attar said. They asked for a list of demands. In return for promises of good behavior, the prisoners in the closed sections were allowed family visits and care packages, including food, blankets and mats; guards routinely extracted bribes for their safe delivery, prisoners said.
Over the next few years, Arabic, philosophy and other classes began in the cells. Attar taught a course on logic. Hani, the former labor minister, taught English. Conditions became so lax during the Persian Gulf War that some prisoners, including Hussein Shahristani, a nuclear scientist, were able to escape.
But the prison remained a treacherous place. The authorities maintained informants to report on political activism. “You had to think of anyone you didn’t completely trust as an informant,” said Hani, who was imprisoned in Abu Ghraib from 1995 to 2001.
Prisoners found with radios, which were banned, or proscribed books, such as those by leading Shiite clerics, were removed to one of the security offices in each cellblock where they were tortured. One security officer, Falah Aqula, was named by seven prisoners in separate interviews, as well as by former guards, as the prison’s principal torturer. Aqula fled as the war ended.
The accounts of victims are supported by former prison guards. “There were bad cases that we were forced to beat,” said Jafir Sadr Mohammed, 56, a former prison captain at Abu Ghraib. “Some of them you wanted to kill. If we suspected something, we would take their confessions while we beat them and then put them in solitary.”
Hussein issued several amnesties, but each time they passed Kharqani by, because he had been convicted under an espionage statute. “I thought I would die in Abu Ghraib,” he said.
But on Oct. 20, 2002, the prison loudspeaker announced, “We have happy news for you.” Names were called until the prison authorities simply let everyone out. Kharqani emerged to a mob scene of news media cameras and frantic relatives who had gathered by the thousands outside the prison gates.
His mother and sister were in the crowd, but he didn’t see them. He and some friends, all long-term prisoners, eventually found a taxi, and the driver was so pleased for them, he gave them a tour of the city before dropping them off in their different neighborhoods.
“There was so much I didn’t remember,” said Kharqani. “I didn’t even know my way home. I was like a child in the city.”
[B]THIS is the Iraq that the far-Left wanted to protect. And THIS is the Iraq that too many on the Left wanted to turn a blind eye to.[/B]
Phil
_______________________________________________
[B]Liberal, yes, but not willing to do nothing in the name of ‘peace’. Your so called ‘peace’ is described above.[/B]
I was impressed. He actually knew something about the grassroots co-existence movement that is forging peace from the bottom up. He has confidence that comes from experience about the uses of war and the non-uses. I think he’s the smartest presidential candidate we’ve seen since JFK ran. I also think he’ll act in Iraq so as to protect the troops, whether that means adding more soldiers or leaving certain areas. My only question is about how well he will delegate.
Reference to co-existence was to the Israel-Palestine conflict and grassroots activity there such as Open House, Neve Shalom, Abraham Fund, Peace Child Israel and others.
“The real opportunity for newspapers, he suggested, could be to enable, coach and sponsor bloggers.”
Actually, the real opportunity is for his own company to stop using its utterly crappy system to host its affiliated newspapers’ content (including that of The Oregonian out here in Portland) online. It’s noisy, messy, user unfriendly, and finding things can be a royal pain.
For someone who himself blogs, Jarvis puts newspaper content on the Web in one of the worst ways imaginable.
3 cheers for the 2nd superpower. Now lets all celebrate the victory of another idiot. Mr. Schwarznigger. Compensation from Emerson comes to mind.. mais non?
What a joke. Said advocated a separate state solution until Arafat signed the Oslo accords, then he all of a sudden came up with this single state obsession. He was too upset at Arafat, so he sold him out.
There isnt much to Said. The man was vain. May he rest in peace.
I still know far too little about Clark and his policy views. Unfortunately he has become one more pseudo-blank screen on which people project their own images. This goes for C. Lyndon’s fatuous comparison with a fictionalized Hadrian as well as Will Cate and Randy H.’s responses. Prefer John Kerry or Howard Dean if you will — I am still undecided — but don’t insinuate that Clark is the anti-candidate or a mere puppet of some Arkansas cabal to prop up your own choices.
Too many questions remain unanswered. At least we are getting a clear response to the Bush Doctrine of pe-emptive with-us-or-against-us militarism from the man and some occasionally nuanced views.
Ask questions about economic and trade policies, judicial and politicalappointments, the relative worth of economic and environmental considerations in dealing with global warming and habitat destruction.
What Clark is quoted as saying re. AIDS in Africa is significant and shows an approach to world issues at least as important as the critique of the war in Iraq. His remarks on the Israeli-Palestinian problem are platitudinous but at least they are platitudes on the right side of the engagement/support-Sharon argument.
Question your own candidate, not only the latest threat to your preferred first choice.
Demand more that sound-bite answers and attacks.
Think for yourself (and lave the facile comparisons to ancient emperors to the pages opf historical journals.
Hey, you guys are putting your site’s /whole article/ into the rss description field, that’s not how it’s supposed to work, it clogs up and defeats the purpose of the news aggregator. You’re supposed to put in a one-sentence or so /description/.
(for your convenience, here it is – see for yourself.
I like listening to your interviews, but may I offer a suggestion: your MP3s would be more useful if the ID3 tags were filled out. At some point these files will be separated from the original context and fully filled out tags reduces the amount of archeology required to figure out “what is curry.mp3?” in a directory of 10,000 files. I love the content, but adding this one tiny technical detail will make everything a little easier in dealing with them. Keep up the good work!
Thanks for sharing the Said interviews. Your remembrance, and the dignified tribute that your pages offer to him is an appreciated gesture of admiration and respect. Thank you.
As a software engineer vitally concerned with the ease with which Bush thugs will steal the next election as well, I am looking to you to help publicize the bits and bytes of how easy it is. I gave testimony to both the Boston City Council and the ACLU about the ease of stealing a computerized election: note they use the euphemism (electronic voting machines) because the know the emotional connotation of the word ‘computer’. As in ‘fucked-up bigtime’.
Enjoy your work. When will you be back to NPR or ANY station, channel or otherwise? If Jimmy Tingle can do it, so can you!!! Dick Gordon nauseates me, even though he is a Canadian (my next home, if this keeps up).
Cheers, Alice of Canton, Ma.
/sorry, forgot the instructions> Enjoy Robert Lowell and his connection with Ann Sexton and Sylvia Plath. Can’t wait to see your review of THAT movie. What would Robert Lowell have thought of Ted Hughes? I froth at the mouth at the thought of his stealing and eliminating Sylvia’s work (as well as the devilish activities of his sister). What part did Lowell’s family have in all his madness? Remember, it’s the entire family, not just one person who provide the breeding ground for madness.
I’m intrigued by Clark: a Dean/Kucinich supporter, i’m also looking for some foreign policy expertise. As well as a brainy guy to work the country to regain our former standing under Clinter with the rest of the world: we are now ridiculed as a bunch of clown. What does Clark have to say about our job situation? And I AM glad to see that he has indicated he was mistaken about supporting the war. We mustn’t put people down for changing their minds with more input….it’s the guys who remain obdurate and never back down from stupidity that we have to be wary of.
A long time subscriber to Nation, I have treasured Edward Said’s words……especially concerning this madness in Israel. For the Israelis to rationalize their continual killing of the Palistineans is idiotic, only continued because our government is so Zionist. I know many wonderful Jews who see through the whole charade, and also respect Edward Said. I mourn his passing.
Alice, the Pilgrim
Well, my first comment got deleted. If you want to see the other stuff that I posted about Lowell, taking up Ron Silliman’s comments on his blog, it’s on this archive page:
Bloom is an enthusiast of the wonders that the mind is capable of, his meditations on Shakespeare and the creation of humanity – the ability of the Bard to create so many “selves” in his works – is merely one example. RWE is another natural for Bloom – an example of the unexperienced life is not worth living – an openness to experience.
No, I don’t agree with many of Prof. Bloom’s judgments – but it is the journey, and not the destination that matters most here. If someone, disagreeing with Harold Bloom, can write as eloquently in favor of DeLillo, and draw people into the experience of his works, who is to say that a conversation hasn’t been started?
“Sock puppet” to the Clintons?
That doesn’t seem very likely if you consider Clark’s well known reputation for bucking the ‘old boy’ military system.
A prime example of this is the rift between him and Shelton, which you could say was precipitated by Clark’s repeated unwillingness to play “sock puppet” to the military establishment.
Not much to Said?! What a joke! Only one of the most important cultural theorists of the past 50 years and the catalyst for many a cultural awakening.
But regardless of the previous comments, I found this interview a bit disappointing. Why was Said consistently bombarded with call-ins like the Shalom one from Lydon’s part 1? Why was 85% of the NYTimes’s hack-job obit dedicated to his political activities (and naivities)?
I would like to do telephone interviews like you do. I can’t figure out how to do it. How can I get set up to do telephone interview recordings? What software and modem recommendations do you have for us?
mediocre poetry, but some good conversation. i’d like to see some more international bloggers (besides andrew sullivan). even though the poet was apparently Armenian, she was so obviously American. let us see if we can’t do better than that in the future.
“Not many posters here nowadays, for I know folks want to support and become centralized at the main blog (although I imagine there are still a lot of readers here), but what is here is almost alway “cherce.”
There’s been a migration away from this early grassroots blog to the official campaign blog because readers believe comments at the official blog go right to the top. It seems as if readers have been “voting with their browsers” for centralization.
The old Connections forums format or your own christopherlydon.org forums format is much, much more likely to generate “the free marketplace of ideas, the place where community generates force” than a blog.
In either case – whether blog or forums – there needs to be some potent seed that draws people to the virtual space in order for a dynamic community to arise.
What a revelation to hear how conversant and insightful Professor Bloom is on jazz. His description of Bud Powell as an “immensely literate man” is even more eye opening, though I’m not surprised to hear that he’s more passionate toward the incandescent modernists Bird and Bud than he is with Duke Ellington. Bloom’s citation of “Parker’s Mood” and “Un Poco Loco” are choice examples of their “doomed eagerness.”
But I agree with Mr. Lydon, that Ellington is more Emersonian than Bird or Bud, both in terms of his robust, independent character, and in his stylization of the authentic American musical vernacular. The American grain infuses all of Duke’s work, as does a truly democratic spirit, both in the way he utilized the individual musical personalities of his band members, and in his embrace of the high and low, the sacred and profane, the most refined and the funkiest– in short, the multi-cultural vitality of America.
Bloom’s friend Ralph Waldo Ellison noted that it was in our appreciation of and ongoing devotion to Ellington’s music that the truth of the “white American’s inescapable Negro-ness,” i.e., our unique American-ness, was most fully revealed.
This is the best observation of What’s Happening with Democracy Now that I’ve seen yet, as well as well as a stirring call to action. Huge thanks to you.
Two comments on post-broadcast politics for openers:
1] It is an N dimensional cloud, not a Cartesian shape. Valdis Kreb’s Social Networking maps are a good approximation of what the End-to-End principal might look likein practise [side to side conversations].
2] However, as I recently commented on Britt Blaser’s blog:
Very interesting post. The question I would pose is this: The GOP has built a “Network of Networks”, print, TV, talk radio, cable, and the internet, including blogs. Has anyone else?
I do not see that the Democratic party has achieved this level of integration. So, for example, how does the largest Democratic smart mob on the web compare to, say, Rush Limbaugh’s 20 million listeners? Or to the major tele-evangelists who, I suspect, have more members and have raised more money than even all of the 9 current candidates combined.
My guess is that the old broadcast media and the new media are both required but neither is sufficient. Further, Michael Cudahy and others have argued that the integration of the best of the old with the best of the new into something greater than the sum of the parts is required for success.
Winning the Culture War By Brian C. Anderson City Journal | November 3, 2003
“… the emergence of conservative talk radio, cable TV, and the Internet. This “right-wing media circuit,” as Publishers Weekly describes it, reaches millions of potential readers …”
So, I suspect the Democrats will have a hard time winning elections again until their network of networks scales up an can go head to head with what the GOP and neocons have already built.
Jock Gill • 11/3/03; 12:02:44 PM
First of all, although I have had personal differences with Stirling, I listened to this interview and everything he said is dead on and I could add a lot to it. Maybe that will be covered in the second part of this interview. I guess I will see.
Get ready. We’re working on some projects at Clark for President that promise everything talked about here. We’re not just reaching out to embrace the online world. Our strategy allows for the participation of every American — not just those who have wealth and influence. Dean started early and has the buzz but we’re doing it properly. Politics will never be the same.
Count me as an interested skeptic who wishes Trippi’s idea could be implemented, but thinks the day is far off.
When we see the new sensibility of two-way communication and control invade the narrow channel that is still the presidential selection process (i.e., the money primary, the big-foot media primary, the canned conventions, the rigged presidential “debates”) then we’ll know a change is actually happening where the rubber hits the road.
To take one example. Last night’s CNN/Rock the Vote forum gave the appearance of embracing the new networked democracy we’re sniffing around–including such gimmicks as text messaged questions to the candidates. But the thing was still tightly controlled and the candidates — none of them — found a way to not pander to their audience.
Imagine if one of them had interrupted the host , Anderson Cooper, after he cut the debate over the Confederate Flag short and turned to a questioner who (as he knew in advance) asked an inane question about Macs vs PCs. I would have liked to see the next candidate answering interrupt and say, with all respect to the young woman who asked the question, that we were just getting into one of the most important questions in America, how we’re divided artificially by race and what to do about it, and that we ought to take more time to discuss that and that maybe she and her peers ought to concern themselves with more important things than what computer to buy–especially as no one seriously thinks the presidential candidates are IT experts. THAT would have been a refreshing and authentic break out of the box imposed by these inane spectacles that we still call debates.
I wrote up my observations on the debate for TomPaine.com at http://www.tompaine.com/feature2.cfm/ID/9325 in case you’re interested.
“Pander” can be the oh-so-slick-feel-your-pain of our overblown Television Anchor Age…or it can be a well-worn, enticing, common comfort channel of a multi-channel conversation, not solely contingent upon broadcast performance for ratings (i.e. syndicated repeats aren’t always “great”, but people still seem to watch them…and end up discussing them around the water cooler the next day)….
Even if feedback looping is not yet ubiquitous across all elder media, the back channels of blogs, Meetups, local organizing groups, mail-lists, etc. are starting to become 90% of the political iceberg to the 10% showing above the broadcast line…
I haven’t thought out all of my comments yet, but I can say that in 2000 I was absolutely disgusted that the choice came down to Bush v. Gore. I supported Bradley in 2000, but I would have gladly voted for McCain. In the end I voted for Nader, even though I think he’s a bit of a kook. (I lived in California; it didn’t affect the outcome.)
Now I support Dean. I don’t think that Howard Dean’s web presence is just about money, although it has proved to be a formidable fund raising tool. Reading that NY Times article just made me so angry that I wanted to give Dean more money.
Why should I listen to Tim Russert or Tom Brokaw? I listened to Chris when he was on the air, because he was intelligent, literate and he respected the intelligence and education of his audience.
Talking down to me is the most sure-fire way to get me to fight back.
White died in 1986. A terrific book about the ‘84 campaign is “The Quest For The Presidency 1984″ by Peter Goldman and Tony Fuller of Newsweek. It’s out of print, of course.
Thank for the great invitation. I’ve been have a fairly quiet – and perhaps somewhat abstract – conversation with some well informed people over the last few days at http://www.aether.com – where I’ve been posting raw thoughts for an upcoming Wired story on the campaign. There might be something in there of interest.
On another note, I’ve been amazed at how resilient some of the discredited themes of old Internet reporting have proven to be. Again and again, in analysis the Dean campaign, we hear that success among a relatively small number of techies means little in the “real world,” except perhaps as it produces a nice infusion of cash to buy television ads.
In a conversation with Joe Trippi this morning, he talked about how the Net is at the core of a volunteer effort that will culminate in an attempt to get 1-2million supporters working the streets during the last week of the campaign next fall, if Dean turns out to be the Democratic candidate. That’s a nice, bold claim – a nice “metric,” as they say.
Unfortunately, the front page of the “Clark Community Network” www.forclark.com) appears to be passworded, which kind of discourages the formation of, um, community.
The use of the internet in the 2004 US campaign is just one more step of the technology revolution. I want to help this revolution grow, and to that yesterday I set up http://blogforcanada.com as a place where Canadians can put forth their views on Canada’s political future. Unlike Dean’s online presence this isn’t controlled by any political party. It’s for the people themselves.
“Blogs will have a revolutionary effect on American media–which may be as nothing, he added, compared to the power that 20,000 Iranian bloggers are demonstrating to shake a whole society. ”
Let’s hope those Iranian bloggers can turn the tide toward a more democratic and free society. The mere fact that they have internet access is a positive sign.
I listened to both parts a little before midnight… It’s almost 2am and I still can’t sleep… What Lakoff is saying is immediately important. I feel like an epic battle of archetypes is brewing… Sweet Jesus! Is Schwartzenegger really governor of California!?!… “Connect the dots”… we (Dean candidacy) have a lot of work to do… I’ve decided to transcribe this interview.
A couple of interesting comments have come to me by email from George Lakoff’s colleagues at the Rockridge research group.
Dear Mr. Lydon,
I’m with the Framing Project at the Rockridge Institute. I work closely with George Lakoff every day. He forwarded the link you sent him to your blog, and I listened to the part of the interview where you and George are disagreeing about how ready Americans are to hear that war is hell. I have some thoughts on this, and would like to share them with you.
I agree with both you and George. I think George is right that there is an extremely important level on which it is difficult to get war is hell discourse out there. I also think you are right in that on some deep psychological and emotional level Americans want desperately to hear that war is hell. The gap comes, I think, from not being adequately clear about what level we’re talking about.
George’s claim about framing has to do with deeply ingrained habits of thinking. It has to do with the fact that conservatives have succeeded, over time, in inculcating certain thought habits in the American public. So much so that Republicans now believe – and they may be right – that all they have to do to hush criticism of the Iraq war is to question opponents’ patriotism. The bell rings, and we salivate.
Your claim seems to operate on a deeper level of the human psyche: that our inherent compassion shouldn’t allow us to make war, and that people are ready to hear this.
My take on it is this: A great many Americans are at war with themselves. Their deepest human instincts tell them that war is hell; their immediately-available cognitive resources tell them that war is necessary and patriotic. Our long-term goal is, through reframing public discourse from a more nurturant perspective, to turn the former into the latter, i.e., to habituate our compassionate instincts through the long-term reframing of public discourse.
The word habituate here is crucial. That’s really what it’s about. The predominant habits we have in our thinking and our language in the U.S. in 2003 are about war as necessary and patriotic. That doesn’t mean there aren’t strong countervailing conceptual resources at our disposal. There are, which is why we’re filled with hope at Rockridge.
Thank you and best,
Jason Patent
I responded:
Dear Jason:
Thanks for a thoughtful response. In the next day or two I will post an interview with Will Hutton in London in which he compounds the argument for a new language of realism not just about war but about the world at large and our relation to it. It’s got to be coined, and as I say it will require simple courage as well as the wizardry of Cog Sci. Stay on the case!
Best to you, and thanks,
Chris Lydon
Next in the email:
Hello,
I hope you don’t mind if I add a little to what Jason said yesterday.
It’s not just a matter of the neo-cons managing to get the War Is Hell frame suppressed right now. It ties into the whole “glorious war” patriotic motif of so much of western civilization. For a closer look, consider the WW2 movies that came out during and even after that war. I suppose the Iliad has a War-isn’t-all-glory motif (people’s brains getting splattered, etc.)–but even there there’s a stronger heroic-war one.
Lots of glorious wars in other cultures, too, and opposition to war on humanitarian grounds is always questioned as unpatriotic (well-known examples in, e.g., WWI, with the “white feathers” presented by “patriotic” Englishwomen to military-age Englishmen who were not in uniform, labeling them as “cowards” and unpatriotic)
The part of all human beings that finds war horrible once it is accurately presented is exactly why it WON’T ever be accurately presented by governments and other propaganda sources (e.g., entertainment). Instead, enemies have to be demonized (”they kill babies” seems to be recurringly popular) and “we” have to be on the side of God (or, rather, God has to be on our side).
Getting people (and not just Americans) actually to go to war almost always requires a rather extraordinary propaganda effort.
And getting people to think about war from a Nurturant perspective (as something that is sometimes necessary, but never glorious) (even though people sometimes do transcendently unselfish things in war) is a civilizational shift of an order of magnitude akin to what was done to get people in many countries to turn against the hitherto-”natural” institution of slavery. Which, of course, means (I hope) that it’s not impossible.
Thanks for a provocative interview series,
Pamela Morgan
(Director of Framing Research, The Rockridge Institute)
Both the lead in and comments have me very eager to listen to you talk with George Lakoff, unfortunately I get a “page cannot be displayed” for part 1 and a never ending search when I click on part 2. Is there something I’m not doing? Dues I must pay?
You (plural, of course) have introduced me to a lot of interesting thinking over the years and I’m glad to have a way again of listening in on your conversations.
Thank you “get your war on”. I feel so much better now. I’m going to give my son a giant kiss tonight after he returns from DC public school. I want him to know how lucky he is that 771 of his teachers will be donating their jobs to edure our freedom.
Dick Morris is absolutely right: the Internet is important because it changes voters from being an audience to being participants. As long as the Internet is as available as it is today,people all across the political spectrum will be able to have unfiltered access to others. As time goes on, the Internet should be more available to groups that now underutilize it for political purposes, lessening the existing biases.
I am in agreement that We have gaps in our defense Policies and 9/11 proved that. A question that is on my mind is why does it take so long to react to a situation. Just as Scarry said the passengers of Flight 93 identified the problem, deliberated and voted, and then acted. Sacrificing there lives from a possible would-be catastrophe. However, I am afraid of the idea of citizens being a bit more involved. That is almost a call to arms. I just see militias forming and the breaching of Pandora’s Box. I don’t agree with to much citizen responsibility.
This is more responsive to the above comment by Robert Birnbaum…
When has anyone not done anything to further their own agenda? Everyone does what is necessary to further their survival, it’s called instinct and we as `animals’ or any form thereof have this embedded in us. Whether some realize it or not, maybe in his own mind he is right, of which I’m sure you think you’re right.
As for the article, I read so many articles daily I get lost, and I take everything with a grain of salt. My only comments about the actual basis of the article, is, yes the Internet works great for reaching people. GenX’ers and those after them will more than likely be reached moreso digitally than by any other medium. With the Internet you’re obviously aware that an advertiser/campaigner/whomever can send out messages to pagers, phones, PDA’s, and all other sorts of devices which makes people aware of the seller.
Most GenX’ers and those who follow are either where let’s see… Clubs, bars, parties, having sex, you name it. Think they have time to watch Martha Stewart? Let a candidate grow some balls for once and advertise after Sex and the City or WWE Raw and see how many more votes he gets than the next guy.
“When has anyone not done anything to further their own agenda? Everyone does what is necessary to further their survival, it’s called instinct and we as `animals’ or any form thereof have this embedded in us. Whether some realize it or not, maybe in his own mind he is right, of which I’m sure you think you’re right.”
You have to consider what two cents is worth these days. This is a prime piece of fuzzy solipsism, starting with collapsing the distinction between physical survival (food, shelter, health) and political or economic survival (in Morris’ case, maintaining his career so he can afford prostitutes for his foot fetishism). We are all animals (dunno why the quotes around that), no doubt about that, but I’ve never sniffed any President’s butt to figure out my place in a mammalian dominance hierarchy. As for no one working against their own agenda (I believe that’s what J is trying to say), just look at the White House to see where conflicts between agendas lead to actions which subvert what is ostensibly sought. (For example, barring nations from work in Iraq while simultaneously asking them to forgive Iraq’s debt — smooth move, that.)
Morris has shown himself to be a facile liar on more than one occasion and one who’d rather embed himself in power than speak truth to it. Even other animals can sacrifice comfort or even life for a greater good.
Thanks for the reference to politrix.org, though, it’s an interesting site. Looks like it’s running Slashcode.
I found your interview with George Lakoff very intriguing. What struck me was when Lakoff stated that framing a new progressive language involved both “discovery” and “creation”. At that point I thought Lakoff was tapping into a necessary balance between what we might call a Rortyan/Bloomian pro creative position and a pro (re)discovery position that would allow those integral (already) progressive voices from America’s recent past (Emerson, Whitman, Dewey)to be heard again and again and again–like war cries (to be taken most literally). The forces of real Conservation and real Progress (like Wallace Stevens’ “cold copulars”) must embrace in a more deeply meaningful way. This involves, of course, retaining and maintaining a memory for war. The only thing ‘creative’ about war is the memory it generates of its own horror. If it does not do this, then it is utterly destructive, and per Lakoff (and Dewey), a very terrible habit indeed.
I have just recently tuned into this space and I applaud what you are doing.
My Christmas gift to myself this year has been listening to your interviews.
It was very heartening to listen to the music of Mr. Hartl and Mr. Droller. John Dewey was the father of many children, and in listening to this interview I came away with a very good sense that his progeny are alive and well. This spirit of participation and communication resonates, I think, with a real public that is really out there.
The interviews are great! I just have one request, it would be nice if
the mp3 files were tagged with things like title, author, etc. It makes
browsing them in an mp3 player much easier.
Oh, and it would be cool if y’all would include a creative commons
license embedded in the mp3 files so folks know if they can share them.
“Get Your War On”: Old and busted. “Day by Day”: New hotness.
Oh, and Chris? Glad to see you have a blog, so I can finally tell you what an asshat you were a number of years ago when, in protesting the repeal of one of the last of our odious blue laws — forcing stores to stay closed on Sundays — you said, “People ought to be in church on Sundays.” As if everyone in the People’s Republic of Taxachusetts is Christian…or even believers.
One thing that’ll always be true about this state: there’ll never be a shortage of elitist twits who think they know what’s best for everyone else.
I wanted to tell you for a long time Mr. Lydon that you are a unknowing mentor to me and one of my guiding lights on this journey to self. When I think of how your work has influenced me I think of a great quote from Socrates, “Wisdom begins in Wonder”.
I admire your “wonder” and look forward to another year of it’s questions.
Thanks for reminding us that we each have answers inside to guide us, stardust inside to build our dreams, and courage inside to try the new and trust the stranger. (even us old dogs have new tricks we can learn and teach) keep doin’ and bein’ you.
Something up with Skybuilders? Looked forward to Gore Vidal’s interview since I just read “Inventing a Nation” but the link comes up “No web site is configured at this address.”
Is it me or do you have a glitch? Whoops, just noticed someone else’s comment about the links
Thanks for the great interviews and the look back at this crazy year!
Your mentioning of Teillard de Chardin and McLuhan prompts me to mention the man that knew both well, Walter J. Ong, SJ, whose work tracing humans’ use of the oral to written to printed to electronic words, as well as his ideas on evolution, conciousness and media, are undersung. He consistently expands on the noosphere idea and is extremely relevent to the work that you are doing.
Your pioneering work has inspired me to add audio to my website, http://www.rememberingwalterong.com. What I’ve added are a lecture and an interview with Ong I’ve obtained.
Chris, Your interviews with Joe Trippi and Larry Lessig were fascinating explorations of how the maturing instruments of the Internet and advancing computer software and platforms may signal an unprecedented democratization of our politics and the production of new, creative streams of cultural expression, especially in music and the fine arts. I would like to see you explore in 2004 the challenges and opportunities for the artist who would like to utilize the tools of the Internet more extensively, but fear that the Internet is just one enormous opportunity for Internet-savvy hacks to “rip off” the legally protected creative works of artists and musicians for personal financial gain. Yes, all artists borrow and build on the melodies, harmonies, canvases, and narratives created by their colleagues and progenitors. Nevertheless, the naked, outright theft of artists’ work, facilitated by the Internet and related technologies, has spurred the Congressional overreactions such as the ridiculous extension of copyright laws persuasively assailed by Larry Lessig. If the Internet is to remain a viable platform for open, free, and legally protected communications platform for millions of Americans to share their creative expressions, then all those who create and utilize its liberating tools (Web pages, blogs, e-mail etc….), must begin to self-police the Internet from the thieves and scam artists who, if undeterred, will invite progressively greater government intrusion, regulations, and restrictions on this vital communication medium. Would you consider conducting several interviews with a range of established and non-established artists who have varying opinions on the use of the Internet technologies to produce and distribute their works?
Chris,
It has been a pleasure to listen to your interviews with different personalities. I hope you will look into burning it on a CD or something. You were a pioneer in audio blogging in 2003, and I think many people look forward to your adventures in audio-blog land in 2004.
Maybe an interview with an Iraqi blogger? hmm.. now that would be interesting!!
Kudos. I have to agree with all the above comments and personally commend you for bringing Harold Bloom to the blogosphere. Gurus, acolytes, visions, dreams and Gore Vidal all meld into some kind of a glorious renaissance or blogosphere soup for the soul here at your blog.
How might we get other Boston Public Library staff to use the format of the weblog to let public libraries users/clientele know more of the BPL’s treasured individual staff’s expertise and interests?…
There’s the usual resistance of a kind associated with people in public service.
I’m a Kucinich supporter and I was delighted that Governor Dean acknowledged Kucinich’s courage in his stance against the war from the beginning. There is no question that Governor Dean is a wonderful, capable politician and that his campaign has the energy of the moment. Actually his campaign has the future with its swell of college students and everyone else for Dean. We drove back last night from Iowa City to Fairfield, completely excited. I believe Dean when he says that he doesn’t want to imitate Bush to fight Bush and I think he represents the new Democratic Party. Dean is probably the most capable, fiscally savvy, and actually even-tempered guy running.
So, why am I for Kucinich? Because we are at a moment of revolution (as Krugman points out) and we need another Abraham Lincoln or FDR – we need vision. Kucinich is willing to make a break from recently established precedents and in some cases go back to American ideals like protecting labor. His solution to pull out of Iraq and install the UN shows a willingness to take full account of what we have done in Iraq for the last 10 years and in the pre-emptive strike that has cost countless lives. He is unwavering in his call for universal health care. Kucinich is so unflinching with the truth and where we need to be that I think he could ultimately sell his vision to Republicans. That is IF his campaign could get the traction it needs. I don’t know why it has not, except that perhaps people need to hear more. They are not ready for his seemingly radical, yet totally reasonable agenda.
And this leaves me on caucus night realizing that I have to calculate my moves carefully. I’d obviously like to see these two guys combined. Someone pointed out that Iowans are move involved this year than usual and this is because they don’t like Bush. The agonizing question is who is electable? But it is like marriage: you have to make your candidate electable with your commitment and energy. I’ve told others however, that this is a long race and its OK to go to the caucus without being totally committed.
From where I sit, there’s an uncomfortable conflation (and reification) of both Internet-based communication technology and personality in Chris’ condensed embrace of Dean and aspects of Internet culture. Dean is not necessarily the best nor the worst the candidate because of his deployment of Internet resources. But I’m sometimes uncomfortable with Chris’ position precisely because of an implicit technological reductionism in his advocacy of Dean’s candidacy, as if an aggressive embrace of this technology is sufficient criteria for an enthusiatic endorsement. It’s probably not fair to Dean, as well, to reduce his bid to a referendum on the political implications of this form of political communication and organization.
As the late Gilles Deleuze noted, new technologies have a dual effect. First, they deterritorialize, breaking through old boundaries (as the Interstate Highway System, the telephone, jet travel, and other modes in recent history). But there is always, according to Deleuze, a definite impulse reterritorialization (gated communities, surveillance technology, datamining, the rise of actuarial/preventive techniques across society, etc.)
I’ve always been somewhat troubled by Chris’ relatively uncritical embrace of the deterritorializing effects of technology, at the expense of looking at the alternative face and effects of technological development. My own work has looked at some of the more disturbing aspects of technological displacement and reterritorialization, whether in the recent “The Digital Death Rattle of the American Middle Class,” (at http://www.ctheory.net/text_file.asp?pick=402) or in 1999’s “Late Boomerology and Beyond,” (http://www.ctheory.net/text_file.asp?pick=118)
The trick is to recognize the complexity of effects, and to careful sort out and develop practices of freedom, among them.
Sincerely
Dion Dennis
_____________________________________
Dion Dennis
Assistant Professor
Dept. of Sociology and Criminal Justice
Bridgewater State College
131 Summer St.
Bridgewater, MA 02325
________________________________________
I am sorry if it comes off obnoxious, but, Ken McClelland (as some of
our favorite media are fond of using first name – last name, instead
of familiar first or formal last) — do you see how you personify the problem.
Do you feel the need to show your erudition? Even I, usually interested in
“intellectual” things (ha! – left as an exercise for the reader to figure out
what “ha!” refers to) felt the need to stop reading after the “Rortyan/Bloomian”
part; how do you think most people would react?
people would respond?
Sounds like a great line up. Call Dave Winer on his cell phone (now that his ears are fixed) and tell him to plug your radio show on Scripting News. You might do the same with Josh Marshall since he is one of the guests.
ps. Great interview with Dick Morris. The guy may be a snake but he’s a very intelligent and focused dude.
I have to agree with Dion. Your post is very confusing. Are you for Dean? Are you for the internet? Or are you for Dean because you perceived him to be the most effective user of the internet?
I don’t think you should support any candidate becasue the are the master of any particular communications tool.. be that the internet, TV or direct mail. I think you should support someone in large part for their position on the issues and then throw in a couple of points for maybe character, energy, experience, etc.
I think Dick Morris was right when he pointed out in your recent interview that Dean may have 500,000 email names but that the Republicans have been quietly collecting 20 million addresses. As Morris intimated, Karl Rove knows how to use the internet.
You’ve got the wrong hierarchy working here. Gary Hart doesn’t even blog, or at least hasn’t since November, and you don’t have Doc Searls on your list as he mentions in his blog. What up? Or is this going to be a Northeast phenom?
There’s going to be (or should be) a lot of controversy about role of blog in politics. The Democratic party can’t afford to start experimenting at this time with “new politics.”
“…just the right time to be developing a real conversation on the Web.”
If you are soooo interested in conversation why did the plea go out before Blogging for the Presidency for questions to be addressed and then they were summarily ignored?
Why was Frank Rich’s question about insularity and blogging totally ignored?
Looking back, Ed Cone’s reference to an Internet bubble bursting again was prescient. Jim Moore’s Dot Com piece is golden. In what sense were Dean’s internet advisors yes-men? Do you truly promote an initiative like blogging as a political meme by suppressing dissent, or are you setting the trap for its eventual demise?
Yes, the media has treated Dean unfairly, but any Democrat who runs for President these days should expect negative treatment by the media, and plan accordingly. People gave money, time, and endorsements to Dean so he could become the President of the United States in 2004 — not President of the Blogosphere or the Guy Who Would Be President If It Weren’t For That Damn Media.
Geez, Chris you sound as if you will be donning lovebeads and praising the Maharishi soon.
A revolutioin is being televised, just not the one many would hope for—and as much as I see the Internet as a window on a brave new world, I don’t have sense that it is about revolution, more about a lot of people with too much time on their hands time.
Oops many apologies about typos (you might add a preview feature/button)
Version 1.2
Geez, Chris you sound as if you will be donning lovebeads and praising the Maharishi soon.
A revolution is being televised, just not the one many would hope for—and as much as I see the Internet as a window on a brave new world, I don’t have a sense that it is about revolution, but more about a lot of people with too much time on their hands .
While I see a grain of truth in the above complaints, I think Chris’ point basically stands: there’s more going on here than just “internet geeks don’t get the real world” as Robert seems to think, or Seth’s “the media is always tough on Democrats”. Dan has the best caveat, I think: the campaign has done some amazing things so far, but part of its current troubles may be self-inflicted.
Bilge water. I’m sorry that’s an offensive thing to say, but that was my immediate response when I read through this.
According to what I’m reading here, Dean lost because Americans, who voted in record numbers in the primary in New Hampshire BTW, don’t care about politics. Something about more interested in football. Why don’t they care? Because they didn’t vote for Dean.
No, wait a sec — that wasn’t it. It was because Big Media is scared of the bloggers and conspired against Dean.
Not because the people made an independent choice for someone else. Not because they felt that Kerry was a better candidate, or that they also liked Edwards in Iowa. Not because they were capable of seeing through rhetoric and making an informed decision.
No, Dean lost because the people are sheep, or Big Media is out to suppress the blogger’s power. Did I read that correctly?
I originally thought all of this was about picking the best candidate to defeat Bush this fall. I didn’t think the only thing that mattered was making sure we had a candidate who was wired into weblogging.
DH: Speaking as someone who was in the studio filming/observing The Blogging of the President, I think it was an honest mistake that blogger questions didn’t get into the show. It was an experimental merger of old media and new… multiple guests in multiple states, phone calls, emails, too much to cover in two hours. I’m sure the next show, if there is one, will make a point of online-offline conversation. There’s a rich opportunity for tv and radio to do something interesting with blogs here.
I think Christopher is right on about this, although the media story is surely more complex. Howard Kurtz takes a good look at it. Dean didn’t kiss up to the media and give them an easy narrative. He didn’t fit into one of their easily-categorized boxes, so they had to push him into one of theirs, be it “Internet-wunderkind outsider” or “angry doomed freak.”
Of course Dean is partly responsible for his public image, and of course the voters can decide for themselves. But – of COURSE the media is the hugely influential goop between us and the candidates. I look forward to studies that concretely show the negative press mentions of Dean and examine the snowball effect.
Blogs obviously represent a very real – economic – threat to big media. You’d be naive to think otherwise; they’d be naive to ignore it. The revolution will be blogged, if it isn’t co-opted first.
I for one just want to say, I’m with you, Christopher. I listened to The Blogging Of The President on MPR the other night and scoffed at the “bubble bursting” comment, how short sighted. The internet is just ripe for politics, and blogs are the way to do it. There’s a reason every other candidate including Bush jumped on the campaign blog
bandwagon as soon as they could, because they saw how well it
worked for Dean.
To say that the internet had no effect on the campaign or the votes is short sighted, to say that one could find no evidence of a blog effect is asinine. You hit the nail right on the head, these are the words of the ailing dinosaurs of the old media.
And should we really just expect that the media will treat Democrats unfairly? Isn’t the media supposed to be UNBIASED? This is part of the issue here, the old media is waning because we can’t trust them to
do there jobs anymore. When the media is run by large corporations, how can you trust that they will speak to the masses, the people, instead of simply serving the agenda of the few powerful elite that
own them, and have an interest in certain stories not making it on air, or certain people not being president? This is where it gets really critical that we have an unbiased and free media. This is why
the new media needs to be truly democratic, of the people, by the
people, for the people.
The internet is so much more than a bunch of geeks with too much time on their hands, and so is the Dean blog, and internet politics. Think of all the ways the internet has already changed your life and all our lives, then realize what it can do for politics, and organizing in general. People in other countries use it as an organizing tool to fly
under the radar of hostile govts., so can we.
I started a blog just 2 days ago, and the impetus was my rage at the very same top down old media machine. I had had enough of the Dean smear campaign from the supposedly unbiased, non-partisan media. And I decided to say something about it. To me that is one of the great powers of a blog, it gives you a voice in the world. It gives anyone a voice, not just those with lots of money. ANd that’s one of the reasons why I think blogs are creating a revolution. Any amount of belittling, just drives the point further.
I suggest that in 2004 the blogosphere should have hitched its “virtual president” wagon to a stallion — instead of Mr. Ed.
It was a mistake for so many people to affix their own identity to this quirky man simply because an ex-employee was plugged-in. Many people can write good policy and have well crafted ideas. Only one – and yes he must be palatable – gets to be prez.
The web is still working. We’re still here. In 2008, maybe it’ll happen differently. Today, we all have much work to do.
VERY weak argument. Extremely one-sided on all of your subjects, all the way through.
The main thrust of your agenda, it seems (besides for the faultiness of big media), is to attempt to belittle Kerry while making yourself feel better about sticking with Dean. You’ve done nothing to convince me, a still undecided voter, that the Dean machine is marching to a different tune.
“A child of privilege and a multimillionaire, two years ahead of George W. Bush in Yale’s secret sanctum Skull & Bones, Kerry makes an implausible populist”
Strike: Dean grew up in a priveleged family. Dean went to Yale.
“William Kristol made the only point I’ll remember: that as long as Iraq remains a bleeding wound, John Kerry’s vote on the war leaves him wide open to Howard Dean’s critique.
Chris’ analysis is fundamentally correct insofar as the media dinosaurs are concerned. We are all pundits in one way or another and the net will someday find a way to propel clever or emgaging remarks not to audiences but to other particpants. In this, blogs are not yet even the model T.
I look forward to a starting a conversation about how we might structure the process of driving a model T of participatory democracy (or, more likely at first, of a corporate one).
The fact of the matter is that Dean mismanaged:
1: his branding efforts — See Rayne’s comment
2: his choice of networks, or failure to use and/both
3: his money
Dean owns these mistakes, not the media.
To do better in the future, as in the general election, it will be more helpful to look at the root causes and not misdirect frustration, aggravation and disappointment at “The Media”.
The choice is to learn or to get stuck in the blogochamber.
By-and-large, I agree with Jock Gill and Rayne. In the end, Howard Dean’s greatest nemesis was Howard Dean, not the media. The reality is that politicians have governed through relationships with media for a long time now. Candidates who are not media-savvy drop by the wayside. As is said in social science, it constitutes a necessary but not sufficient condition for successful governance. So, to “blame” the media, solely, is to ignore the reality that a candidate needs to attend to different kinds of media relations – conventional and emerging forms (such as these blogs, which are, after all, a media product, albeit of a different format and audience, to date). If a candidate cannot effectively negotiate through the media morass, how will s/he be able to govern.
The inability to shape media and media representations, combined with the financial mismanagement of the campaign, shows a kind of (relative) practical inability to work outside the blogosphere. For while the Deaniacs may have the politically correct positions, questions about tactical and strategic judgments raise serious questions about the ability to govern, not a relatively small, rural and homogenized state such as Vermont, but a complex, polylingual, polycultural country such as ours.
What Chris has written, below, is the most eloquent, and in some ways right now the most bittersweet, detail of the very real contributions of Howard Dean to American politics. I was not a “Deaniac” but I have been a very good observer waiting for things to shake-out, as it were. I have sent this particular piece of your writing to some of these “media types with talk shows” who are banging the funeral drums for Howard Dean. I ask them to consider these contributions you list. I hope you don’t mind. Thank you so much. I hope this graph gets picked up and “beaten to death in the news.” And I think we should all thank and say a prayer for Howard Dean.
Tess
“First, the politics: the Dean campaign has recharged our limping democracy for a generation, with vivid fresh examples of what citizenship can mean: all that self-starting civic energy, the MeetUp mobilizations, the decentralized consensus, the articulate idealism, the viral activism. Bill Bradley called it the best thing he’d seen in politics for 20 years or more. Is there any question that the model of mayor’s races and Congressional campaigns in the future will be found in the citizen spirit that the Deaniacs put to work? This is the point that I believe old pros like Al Gore and Tom Harkin were endorsing. They’ve seen the future of progressive organizing, and they know it works. In its small-sum fundraising on the Internet, the Dean campaign cleansed the Augean stables of campaign finance when bought politics had come to seem the unbeatable rule. And it put a compelling short list of serious issues on the table for all to argue: the extension of health care, the refinancing and reinvention of public education, responsible realism in a world that wants to respect us. Even as Howard Dean’s vote totals were coming up short, the field of his rivals was sounding more and more like him on the identifiable issues. It misuses the language to call this a political defeat.”
Welcome to Saint Paul, Chris. I have the good fortune to be friends with both Jon Cahill (we worked on some book ideas together) and Katherine Lanpher. I even appeared on Midmorning years ago when Paula Schaeffer/Schroeder? was host.
Jon suggested we have a cup of coffee sometime, and that sounds good to me. I know where all the bodies are buried at MPR — a trunkful of dirt! If this has appeal — give me a call at 651-644-4540 … or mfinley@mfinley.com.
Round and round and round the web spins: I found myself curious to see if there was any news about Spaulding Gray out there. I Google his name, come across a link that takes me to a lamenting essay on John Perry Barlow’s site barlow.typepad.com). I scroll down the page and do a double take at a familar name. I click the link and find out my favorite old Pub-Rad cowboy is back in the saddle, just 6 hours before he mounts up!
Well, I’ll join the experiment by pulling down the webcast as often as I can. And I’ll spread the word with folks back in hubworld.
Listened to most of the first hour. It was refreshing to hear from callers who weren’t buying some of the things that seem obvious to you and I. Minnesota’s not a “red” state is it? I look forward to listening to you talk with the midwest, and I think you can do it. I wish you could have spent more time drawing out the caller who thought that if the leader hates us it’s enough for us to invade.
I listened to the first hour on my way to work, and I have to say, fantastic job so far!
The caller who said that we haven’t had the show be this good in about a year was correct. The way you handled the caller who just wanted to read his talking points was great; other recent hosts would’ve just let him ramble on and on.
What a bonus! I was just listening to The Connection a few days ago and lamenting how it had gone downhill since you left. I even posted on WBUR’s boards that they need to bring you back. And you’re on the air again! Radio hasn’t been the same since you left. Can’t wait to check out Midmorning. Might be tough to listen while working, but I may have to find a way to record it over the net.
Mr. Lydon,
I’m sorry I didn’t send in a question about the Kennedy factor to your Thursday 1st hour. It was again very enjoyable to listen to Minnesotans, and interesting that it was the Massachusetts guys (you and me) that were so unhappy with Kerry. He’s not a warrior, not a political warrior. If folks think Kerry is strong and a good listener and will elect him, then good, the country will be better off with an establishment Dem than with Bush, but if he’s the candidate I’ll only be able to promote him as the best choice offered, and maybe as a necessary half-step toward a more mature, broader, more open politics. Below is what I wrote to friends right after the Iowa caucuses:
Electability:
Ted Kennedy was all over John Kerry’s comeback in Iowa. I’d be really disappointed if it came down to the Kennedy family dynasty against the Bush family dynasty. It would feel like a very old and tired choice. Also, while I would vote for Kerry-Kennedy, I’m pretty sure most of the country wouldn’t. When the Bush Republicans paint the Dem. candidate as “too liberal” Howard Dean can respond–he was pretty moderate and very fiscally responsible in Vermont and Vermont is not a liberal state so much as a libertarian one. Kerry won’t get a chance to respond because the pictures of him next to Ted Kennedy will open and close the discussion in many of the “red” states. I have a lot of respect for Kennedy as a legislator and politician, but he is the personification of something the country has voted against in the last 6 presidential elections.
When the Bush Republicans paint the Dem. candidate as “too weak” Kerry will stumble over his Iraq vote. Only a few Republican sympathizers will swayed by the Vietnam contrast with GWB and a lot of Democrats will be murmuring through clenched teeth that that the country could have used someone in the Senate with guts a year ago.
Great to back and pull-on the mantle, but Emerson was a minister, and spoke to others trying to “save” them, but alas, decided to save himself by lecturing and publishing.Today we have the ghastly expansion of blowggers, and everybodies is saved?
Are you also webcasting? Someone tell me, please. For a non-Deaniac, I am really upset about what has happened to Howard Dean. All along this long primary trail, I had to look away to keep myself from picking the winner–and pledging my heart to him– because I know that the issues that are riding on this presidential election* are so critical that this election will literally determine the way, the direction, of the world for the rest of our adult lives. We are fighting for things that are precariously positioned and it is clear if we let them go now, some will be gone forever, and others…well, the younger ones will spend the rest of their adult lives trying to get them back. Better to hold off falling in love with the “right man” so that I would have my wits about me and be able to throw my heart and soul and brains behind him at the appointed hour. No holds barred. But more than 7 times, I was certain that we would be officially informed that Howard Dean was the “right man.” And I guess I was developing a soft spot for him without realizing it. Whatever he did, he did not deserve the crucifixion he got. In fact, Howard Dean did nothing wrong at all. I do sense 1/2 of 1 ounce of contrition from the press that they feel “something” about how they went after Dean. Now the tip of the hat to Howard for “everything he did for the Democratic Party”. That, in my opinion, is exactly what is “too little too late,” not the missing primary votes for Howard. It was just too brutally painful to watch the complete crash and burn of his campaign…and to see him at “less than zero” from where he started out. Again, I was forced to look away from this primary trail for the second time in six months.
But what is adding even more wincing to my watching Howard Dean politically die, is the way his so-called advisors and endorsers have treated him, abandoning him completely. Could not one of them have stood up there on the stage with him when he made what had to have been the most painful appearance of his life? And the high-profile campaign manager Joe Trippi not missing a beat and becoming an instantaneous talking head on all the spin shows. From his full-sail position as guru of Dean’s campaign, to being awkwardly positioned behind a desk that is obviously too small for him, Trippi now looks like a man whose had his legs cut out from under him. If not a public reunion of these two men, which is what I advocated for immediately, on behalf of their generous-money-giving minions, then Trippi should be staying closer to the people, the real Deaniacs, at public lectures and speaking engagements (that they can afford: free). And not just taking high-paying speech-making for tech companies. Trippi’s motto must be “Laugh and the world laughs with you. Weep, Howard, and you weep alone.”
Trippi would know.
My heart goes out to those people.
*(please, God, this time let it be an election as opposed to an appointment)
TESS: Chris’ guest shots on “Midmorning” are indeed on the web — MPR puts out a live feed in RealPlayer, as well as show archives. Go to the Midmorning homepage (http://news.mpr.org/programs/midmorning/) and the links will be quite obvious.
If you have trouble getting your web browser to correctly open the show, try pasting the link to the webcasts directly into RealPlayer’s “Open Location” dialog box.
F. Everyone’s I.: I have been having a difficult time getting the RealPlayer feed to stay active for more than 5 min. at a time. I’d be curious to know if anyone else is having the same problem.
Political observation: We currently seem to have a schism between the “True Believers” — those who are concentrating on picking the best candidate, who mostly seem to graviate passionately towards Dean — and the “Pragmatists” — those who feel that anyone but Bush will be an improvement and are willing to make their own preferences secondary to a strategic calculation about who will attract the swing voters. Count me in the latter camp, but with great sympathy and considerable admiration for the virtue of the former.
Like it or not, all the rules have been changed. Yes, Dean got done in, and not by himself. But the facts on the ground indicate there is a clear Darwinian overtone to this year’s election. My sole desire is to get the ship of state off the course for the iceberg. After that, we can go back to more careful considerations about who would make the best captian and the best route towards beter destinations.
In my “Political Observation” above, I’d like to clarify: when I say the “True Believers” are concentrating on picking the “best candidate”, I really should have said “the candidate who would make the best president, regardless of electability.”
The Dean campaign taught us that you can’t use the Internet to launch into a successful television campaign to win primaries. By raising money to run ads you play into the gatekeepers, who for obvious financial reasons, have a lot at stake in the money continuing to flow through their bank accounts. At some point he wouldn’t need them. If Dean didn’t get it, they did. So they proved that in 2004 at least, they still get a veto on who runs for President.
To Blitzer, Sawyer and Russert, to Viacom, GE, Time-Warner and Disney, Kerry seems safe, but Dean is dangerous, he routes around them, he goes direct. To accept his candidacy would be to accept the end of television-dominated politics. They aren’t going to let this happen, any more than the record and movie companies are going to roll over for P2P distribution.
But there more to story…
Corporate America decided that Dean must be savaged, and its media sector made it happen.
Just a note from a blogger, journalist and former radio host to say I have just discovered your blog and enjoy it. Your Gore Vidal piece alone was worth the price of admission.
Gore Vida is our one man opposition party and I am only unhappy to realize that when he departs this earth the American and Candian people, by and large, will not realize what a treasure they have lost. They will weep more when Trump or Paris Hilton cross the silver river.
Sad. Sad. Sad.
Michel Orr
What a breath of midwestern air after all the brutality my mind has been wallowing in since the Madrid tragedy. I hope to sing the body electric with him while listening to some Thelonius Monk and escape into true art for a bit. Mr. Holm is the epitome of why God made art.
The media caught his hoarse rally cry and it was manipulated into heavier rotation than Janet Jackson’s grandmother’s bosom falling out of her outfit during the Superbowl. I agree with most of the posts, but you have to admit the media wouldn’t let that moment of raspiness evaporate.
—–Original Message—–
From: Paul S Prueitt [mailto:paul@ontologystream.com]
Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 8:15 AM
To: Jim Hendler
Cc: Bernard Vatant; BCNGroup Board; Harold H. Szu; Kelcy Allwein;
Michael Lissack; Mike McDonald; Paul Werbos; Peter Kugler; Ralph
Hodgson; Sandy Klausner; Steve Cook; Steven R. Newcomb
Subject: alternative to AI/Semantic Web research
Professor Jim Hendler
University of Maryland, College Park
Respectfully,
I value your work, and you a great deal. But I ask also that you understand what the method is that I have chosen to employ to try to shift some small percentage of federal funding in support of an alternative to AI/Semantic Web research.
I have made a fictional account of a conversation at:
we state an alternative to the AI/Sematic Web vision for the future.
Our position is that human thought is a physical phenomenon and logic is not.
In the BCNGroup alternative to AI/SW we positively address the issue of long-term abuse from one community onto another community, and (perhaps more importantly) an alternative to the AI/Semantic Web vision for the future. Once the light of day is shone on this abuse issue, then our society will be able to move on to a more rational expenditure of funds on communication systems.
In this alternative, the growth of computer science funding levels off and then sharply is reduced as the task of creating a functional understanding of what a computer can do and not do is codified in practice. The first step is a requested $60,000,000 to create a Knowledge Science K-12 curriculum.
The alternative, to the AI/SW vision for the future, conjectures that the social/economic energy now spent in confusion, over what a computer can do, will be spent in the proper application of human-centric information production (HIP) on critical social problems such as those creating asymmetric threats and poverty and environmental degradation.
The immediate value proposition is not a business proposition, but a National Security one.
There was a great piece on This American Life ( http://www.thisamericanlife.org, episode 260, “The Facts Don’t Matter” ) that focused on how polls are done in this country, specifically on the polls in Iowa during the primaries there. It’s the last segment. It’s a great listen.
Zephyr is definitely the brightest and the best of all the Deanies. Including the candidate and the campaign manager. Glad to see that she said “no thanks” to Howard’s new vanity forum and is now working for ACT.
I’ve never been a fan of the candidate or the “cult”, but I would not hesitate to support Ms. Teachout in any of her future endeavors.
I was searching for information about William McGregor Paxton via Google and that’s how I found your website. I too would like to hear or read your speech.
Hey, something new! I was just moving this link into the dead blog folder. Good to know CL is still alive (though hanging out in the cemetary with his dead friends.)
Good show, Chris! I love the story and interview on the Bulger brothers. Thank you for drawing attention to this during this DNC tourist season.
I posted a link to this at the Boston Indymedia Web site because this bit of local history is significant and might be overlooked during the current DNC infestation.
Have you been to any of the so-called “free speech” protest pits? The discriptions and pictures appear dreadful and anti-democratic. What a contradiction to Boston! If I were there, I would chose to support the called-for boycot of the FSZ [Free Speech Zones - see IMC article].
And then there is the forced removal of the Aljeera sign from the DNC press sky boxes….
Chris, I miss your regular radio show so much. It really did a lot to help me stay sharp and learn. It was simply wonderful to hear that interview you posted. I wish I could hear you everyday, especially during DNC.
Get your free iPod! All you gotta do is sign up for an offer and refer 5 friends and its all yours! This is a completely legitimate offer by a reputable company. Check out the site:
To have Chris back after a long drought is enormously revitalizing. Although the BBC is filled with brilliant and talented journalists, Lydon has a unique ability to bring issues alive. I am thrilled to have access to his interviews once again.
What is the connection between the Bulgers and John Kerry? Or Bill Weld? It seems that one could not rise to political power in Massachusetts without some sort of collusion with the Bulger psychopaths?
Thanks so much Chris for this wonderful piece about Julia. I remember her standing beside a pregnant me- a full foot taller than I am too- at Legal Seafood’s fish market in Inman Square almost 35 years ago. Those were the days that Berkowitz was offering a free taste of his very freshest of fish dipped in batter and fried in the big vat of oil in the back.
The incredible thing about your tale is the inclusion of the bit about the “Blab-off” because my husband Bob made us one ( one that fits the description exactly) in the late sixties. We thought we had the first such thing ( and invented for the same reason) and WE called it a ( yes no kidding) a “Blab-off”!! What do you make of that!
I will always love her and I feel the great loss. She taught me to cook, to love to cook. And she taught me a lot else.
Thanks for giving me important new perspectives on the politics and principles of the GOP. I don’t “do” a lot of politics at my weblog, but I hope my readers will take a deter from haiku and legal-ethics issues and pay close attention to this posting.
Let’s educate each other on the characteristics of empire, let’s remind ourselves of our duty to uphold democracy, and let’s channel our anxiety and fear of empire into a renewed commitment to a future based in traditional American values – democracy, civility, intellectual inquiry and respect for the rule of law.
as I wirte this I am hearing the RNC Bush acceptance speech full of implied turths that are false and talk of challenges faced..when we have yet to face the hardest challenges of all that lie ahead of us..
Would it be possible to contrast this wonderfull subject with the birth of the Republican party?
It would be interesting to see what struggles at the birth of the republican party still exist if at all..
The imperial project will fail of course, as you say. But I’m worried about democracy. The continuous war makes erosion of democracy easy amd inevitable. That may be the true agenda….
The piece on empire is indeed a very interesting one. You identify one of the problems with the neoconservatives in this Administration: their overwhelming lack of awareness of the value of history.
As history has shown, all empires have eventually fallen and become historical studies. In the early 1990s, as I began my undergraduate degree, I had thought that the US was never an empire. Instead, it was a reluctant leader. As the Cold War ended, leaadership was incumbent upon the US. We have taken that mantle of leadership and either worn it when it was advantageous–the Clinton Administration–or abused it–the current Bush Administration.
Whatever happened to the realists in our foreign policy establishment–the realists that knew the lessons of history? Where are the Dean Achesons and Henry Kissingers when we need them? Even Paul Kennedy had the foresight to make the claim about the potentially ill effects of the confluence of state wealth and empire.
What was unique about the American experiment was best summed up in the Gettysberg address: Government, of, by, and for the people…with a “new birth of freedom” as the result. The current Republican Party betrays Lincoln’s vision today, and I agree, the very concept of a republic, and the most basic freedoms of a democracy are now at risk.
But, really, it seems you haven’t gotten to the meat of the issue. Is this an example of some sort of oligarchy that rules the country or is it just coincidence? Is Skull and Bones some offshoot of the Illuminati or is it more like the Jaycees? Do these guys just get together and drink and have spooky rituals with skulls or is there more to it? Is it Animal House or the Star Chamber?
I was in a fraternity, ATO, it was more like Animal House…is it like that or something more sinister??
In response to Stephen Nally’s comment, I’m worried about both the failure of the imperial project and democracy. The imperial project, and its failure, has implications far beyond just the United States, its economy or its image in the world. Every day, in many, many parts of the world, people are being killed becasue of policy decisions that were made at the top. And every day that these policies (and thier side-effects) continue, we as citizens of the ‘Western World’ remain responsible.
However, the question of how to pull the imperial debate into your (I’m an Australian) presidential election, and our own federal elections here in October, baffles me.
How do you bring such knowledge to so many (apathetic) people between now and October/November?
From The Los Angeles Times: “Nationwide, at least two polls in the last week showed that newly registered voters favored Democratic presidential candidate John F. Kerry by double-digit margins. The Massachusetts senator holds an even greater lead, the polls found, among voters 29 and younger… The conclusion is that the new voters and younger voters favor Kerry by a large margin, but historically they don’t actually bother to vote. If they do this time, it could make a big difference.
Come on people––your vote is essential!
THERE’S STILL TIME TO REQUEST YOUR ABSENTEE BALLOT in many states if you are registered to vote!
It’s easy; it’s online.
Now that you’ve appraised The Master, I may slip a toe into those cloudy waters. Reviews gave me the impression the book was drowning in somebody else’s tears.
But I’d prefer Michael Chambon in the movie.
Intrigue as far back as when Spelling and Cushing duked it out in the south end can bleed stories about the midget protection by pols via well disguised and otherwise known as gangsters . As I found out these last few years, illness in the guise of those most on high is the link that is of mind boggling proportion in this town and beyond. All within a protection racket the sanctioned hand silently as counterance to thugwerk smooths the rough edges of a system fully old “boueyed” up where the likes of Hoover kept by mobsters keeping king and kennedy et all it goes round creating the environment Whitey and his dimmer brother enjoyed..where is Jackie Bulger by the way? Needless to say I wish Howie were as tenatious a foe of one criminal Law during the partial airing of catholic wrong doing. The fouls which remain undisclosed connecting the good and the bad image bulgers would stand reckoning by a media shooed away by the mob advertisers down on automile. Generations go by with wreckage managed by wolves in sheeps clothing who otherwise could call for justice within the community to those watching whitey and billy and sicker bastards (Howies werd) on the loose amonsgt us.
January 13, 2005. Orlando, City of Lights. Dear Sirs
It is remarkable to see and hear how many scientific and speculative theories are being exposed on the press, radio and television by the editing media about what some call the wrecked, creeping, wicked weather.
In January 18, 2003; a letter with an “Apocalyptic Warning Message” was sent to the United Nations before the United States lunched its War against Iraq. Press release copies were also sent to some members of the media and clergy, among them “The Orlando Sentinel” main news paper in this city; The New York Times, Reverends Charles Stanly, Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson among others; part of that message reads like the following words:
“Then I saw the execution, the execution of hate and wickedness where hundreds of innocents humans at a time, and thousands a time, and hundreds of thousands to the end were killed, children, women and men, young and old, all innocents souls. Yes, I also saw poor innocent souls paid and trained to be mercilessly cruel. The armies of the Beast were drugged to encourage and enhance performance to kill. They dropped over the Earth thousands of what the prophet Isaiah called: “The weapons of his indignation to destroy the whole land.” I heard this King constant vocalization of “Human Rights,” but he does not have regard for innocent humans nor the Holy Spirit within or the Word of God or the testimony they held.”
“ The great truth was given to me in a prophetic vision. Bombs were being dropped unrelentlessly from the sky, pulverizing buildings by the dozens in just minutes; where dozens of innocents were killed at a time, and sometimes dozens of dozens times dozens. The great slaughter, the Earth pounded along with its people and animals. Moreover the shaking and the trembling of the crust of the Earth by the power of these weapons cause braking and shifting underground of rocks, creating earthquakes around the planet. Volcanoes became active and lava started to erupt from cracks and pits of bombs explosions and earthquakes. The Earth was bleeding and the rivers were being flooded with blood running to the seas. Water and air contaminated with chemical dust and winds full of radiation killing thousands more by poison and asphyxia; heat melting flesh and people running crazily over each other trying to find a door to get out of Hell. Total chaos, the acceleration of “Global Warming” by these “Blasphemous Weapons” will melt the poles flooding parts of the Earth with fury.”
Although I am not a scientist or a member of the clergy, nor a politician; but rather a prophet of GOD, I have received instructions to warn the people of America and the World, about how the first great earthquake that produce the “Tsunami”; was in deed the aftermath of the pounding of the crust of the Earth by the “Weapons of Mass Destruction” the United States has being dropping in Afghanistan and Iraq for over a year now. The continuous unreasonably violent striking and blasting of these “BLASPHEMOUS WEAPONS” has reverberate sound, heat vibratory waves along with toxic particles waves in and around the planet. Trembling and shifting underground rock causing earthquakes and atmospheric sudden catastrophic changes by warm toxic winds, rains and snow. The hurricanes that went through Orlando last year and the multiplication of tornados, mudslides, avalanches, floods, sinkholes, volcanoes activation and many other cataclysmic phenomena is also the result of the hateful amount of destructive energy being released by these WEAPONS which in a blasphemous and untruthful manner the United States went to seek in Iraq, but It rather use them there. The Word in the book of Revelation 6:14 says: “And the heavens departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their place.” This is the six seal: “A man made Earthquake-Tsunami has moved the Earth out of its axis and more devastation is coming as a result of the anti-CHRIST actions of War.”
Before the 2004 national elections another warning vision was published at http://www.Aleuzenev.com; it was e-mailed to the general media, and the end section reads like this words; again warning America: “And behold; the night vision was now like a great television screen showing the name: The King of MYSTERY BABYLON the GREAT; then there appeared:
The President of the United States of America; dressed with a tricolor hooded cloak garment of stars. And he had in his head a crown of gold that was melting; and the precious metal was going into his eyes making him blind; and as he walked toward a ceremonial bowl filled with water to clean his eyes; he then tripped his foot against a Stone a tried Stone, a Precious Corner Stone set by the ceremonial bowl that was filled with water. [That STONE represents the Doctrine of JESUS CHRIST of LOVE and MERCY toward our enemies for the creation of PEACE]. The vision continuous…And as he stumbled and fell his right foot got caught into the ceremonial vessel and the water turned to blood. The President was trying desperately to get his foot out of the bowl while his back was against the floor; but his foot was caught in the vessel with his greed and egotistical pride; and he was shaking his foot with anger and the satisfaction of force while on his back; but the ritual kettle was boiling over with the sacrificial blood of multitudes of humans. Poor and innocent soldiers from many nations, poor and innocent civilians from Afghanistan and Iraq; the blood of poor and innocent children, women and elders from all over the World was overflowing along his side. [The last twenty words describes something like the TSUNAMI]. The vision ended… And the Cabinet along with his Republican and Democratic courts, and the Clergy were there by his side; standing on their knees inebriated with the wrath of his wine; as the American ceremonial vessel became a drowning river of blood. And there came on the screen the words: THE LAMENTATION of ABOMINABLE HIPOCRASY.”
Today I read:
“And He said unto me, you must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues and Kings.” Revelation 10:11. Ivor Manuel prays for you and Peace for the World, prophet of the LORD.
Having just been greatly impressed with The Master , I was curious about what has been said. Yours is the most respectfully intriguing, though I found Toibin’s James not steely or repressed, but spinlessly avoiding taking any stance, ethically or morally, under the guise of superior grace and gentlemanly manners. Toibin is almost impossibly brilliant introducing a more complex version of james and how he manifests in his writing, all the while staying in period quasi- Jamesian prose as well as introducing the material for taking a current view of the era’s view of Homosexuality, feminism, class…… I am fascinated by the seamless integration of all these elements, historical, fictional, psychological and literary.
I am a student creating a movie for a computer science fair. There will be no fees or money exchanged for this project. I need written permisson for all images and music I use. I will give credit as you request. The image is located at http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/lydon/2003/09/03 Plese e-mail me back asap either way.
I am a student creating a movie for a computer science fair. There will be no fees or money exchanged for this project. I need written permisson for all images and music I use. I will give credit as you request. The image is located at http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/lydon/2003/09/03 Plese e-mail me back asap either way.
I am a student creating a movie for a computer science fair. There will be no fees or money exchanged for this project. I need written permisson for all images and music I use. I will give credit as you request. The image is located at http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/lydon/2003/09/03 Plese e-mail me back asap either way.
“Blessed are those who practice My WORDS in their actions.” Thus say the Lord to Ivor Manuel and all My people: “The Peace Makers, the Children of GOD.” March 3. 2005.
March 10,2005 City of Lights, Orlando Florida.
Aleluya! amen! Aleuzenev!
It is written:
“For the Lord himself shall descend from Heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel (Good News), and with the trump of GOD (WORD in the BIBLE) and the dead in CHRIST shall raise first, (spiritually death shall know it first). Then we which are alive (spiritually know the CHRIST) and remain (believing) shall be caught up together with them in the CLOUDS (will be communicating with them in the confusion), to meet the Lord in the air (understand GOD mercy and love through the airwaves); and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.” 2 Thessalonians 4:6-18.
Read and understand now:
“Behold My servant, whom I uphold: Mine elect, in whom My soul delights; I have put My SPIRIT upon him: he shall bring forth Judgment to the Gentiles.” Isaiah 42:1.
“To open the blind eyes , to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house (churches, institutions, and leaders supporting and teaching WAR as a solution for World PEACE).” Isaiah 42:7.
“And I will write upon him My New Name.” Book of Revelation 3:12.
“JESUS ALEUZENEV, Lord and Servant of all people, His New Name.”
Chosen and Faithful go tell everyone the Good News, “Jesus Christ has a New Name.” Thus says Ivor Manuel, prophet Branch of the Lord.
There doesn’t seem to be any way to send email directly so…
I really love your Podcasts but the sound quality is REALLY POOR. The stereo mix is trashed by the mp3 compression which causes annoying channel flips, noise and distortion. Please either mix it down to mono or change your encoder settings.
Aloha,
Scott
There doesn’t seem to be any way to send email directly so…
I really love your Podcasts but the sound quality is REALLY POOR. The stereo mix is trashed by the mp3 compression which causes annoying channel flips, noise and distortion. Please either mix it down to mono or change your encoder settings.
Aloha,
Scott
There doesn’t seem to be any way to send email directly so…
I really love your Podcasts but the sound quality is REALLY POOR. The stereo mix is trashed by the mp3 compression which causes annoying channel flips, noise and distortion. Please either mix it down to mono or change your encoder settings.
Aloha,
Scott
There doesn’t seem to be any way to send email directly so…
I really love your Podcasts but the sound quality is REALLY POOR. The stereo mix is trashed by the mp3 compression which causes annoying channel flips, noise and distortion. Please either mix it down to mono or change your encoder settings.
Aloha,
Scott
“We all become Serbs in wartime…”is so shockingly racist, I’m still numbed that an intelligent person could write something so unintelligent as that.
I then realized, it just underscored the complete and total demonization of an entire people – the result of the same kind of propagandistic and biased saturation media coverge the author accuses Belgrade of.
Sorry to confuse you, but there are thousands of Serb victims of the Balkan wars, the most recent in Kosovo, that shining light of Clintonesque “humanitarian intervention”.
Those Serbs remaining in Kosovo live in terror each day, guarded and protected by NATO troops. You and Hedges remain silent and ignore their plight. Or maybe being so throughly demonized, they illicit no pity and support. Hey they maybe deserve it.
Serb churches, centuris old, continue to be demolished and razed by Albanians, entire Serb communities destroye and attacks continue unabated, and all under the watchful eye of NATO.
Your statement implies that Serbs had no victims, were the sole perpetrators of crimes and as such must bear all the blame.
The fact that all responses to this horrid and unfair statement did not even pick up on it and accepted it as a statement of fact, is very distressing indeed.
i think Mr. Isaac Newton is the best mathematician and scietific guy i’ve ever learn. and the interesting fact is i get to do a roject about him. and have to present it in front of 32 class. and has to video tape it also.
The INNOCENTS and their FAMILIES are the losers in WAR in IRAQ.
Up until today; 1,571+ innocent American soldiers have been killed in IRAQ.
Soldiers who were wounded, lost body parts, or were paralyzed, and have become chronically ill with physical or mental illnesses. Also, soldiers that have been evacuated due to non combatant wounds or other injuries and diseases are over 17,000.
Other innocent soldiers from coalition troops dead number 176.
All the dead and those wounded are Innocent, because they were defending (and still are) the erroneous Vision of FREEDOM of a utopian political demagogue; whom had received power from the people to lead them and enlighten a dark World with Mercy and Love (if he in deed was a follower of CHRIST as he had said). However, he deceived the people with his own vision of “WAR on TERROR” for PEACE; Instead of using that power for good he used it to steal, kill and destroy because he is also a liar
As it is written and the MESSIAH says:
“VERILY, verily, I say unto to you, He that enters not by the door (employing His “Gospel of PEACE”) into the sheepfold (to lead the Faithful), but climbs up some other way, (“Advance of Freedom and PEACE through WAR”) the same is a thief and a robber. “Yes, he has stolen the FAITH and the WEALTH of the PEOPLE with lies; and has used THEM to kill and destroy;”
Innocent Iraqi civilians killed by U.S. BOMBING are estimated to be between 21,000 and 25,000 in two years; most of them elders, women and children. IRAQ is in chaos and all people including American soldiers and their families of the nation are suffering. Is this not a WAR CRIME against the people of IRAQ and all humanity? Can we humanly say that this insane killing and human suffering should be called Liberation?
WE THE PEOPLE (TAXES) ARE BEING ASK TO DONATE MORE MONEY TO SUPPORT OUR SOLDIERS IN IRAQ. SAY TO YOUR CONGRESSMAN: “WE WANT OUR FAMILY HOME! STOP THE KILLING AND BRING THEM HOME.”
The Word of GOD written says:
“Woe to him (unrighteous king) that increases that which is not his! (Afghanistan and Iraq) How long? And to him that covers himself with thick clay!
“Because you have spoiled many nations, all the remnant of the people shall spoil you; Because of men’s blood and for the violence of the land, of the city, and of all that dwell therein.”
“Woe to him (of unrighteous actions) that covets an evil covetousness to his house; that he may set his nest on high; that he may be delivered from the power of evil!
“You have consulted shame to your house by cutting off (crippling) many people, and have sin against your soul!”
“Woe to him (the anti-CHRIST) that builds a town (Iraq) with blood (instead of Mercy and Love), and establishes a city with iniquity!” That is the vision that was embraced by the prophet Habakkuk for an appointed time in chapter two; and Ivor Manuel prophet says: “The time is now America, open your eyes and awake to RIGHTEOUSNESS!”
Moreover:
“Though you exalt yourself as the eagle, and though you set your nest among the stars, thence will I bring you down, says the LORD.” Obadiah 4
“Yet you shall be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.” Isaiah 14:15
“Open your eyes wide; read and understand for the “Judgment of GOD” is coming down upon sleeping AMERICA!”
PAT ROBERTSON from the 700 CLUB said something like this: “GOD told me that He is going to remove some Judges from their benches.”
But what I hear My GOD and Our MESSAIH say is this:
“Political leaders of AMERICA, REPENT! You have misled the Nation.”
“Shepherds of AMERICA, REPENT! You have misled My PEOPLE.
“Military Leaders of AMERICA, REPENT! You have misled the World.”
“Because you don’t believe in ME, UNRIGHTEOUS is your JUDGEMENT.”
Thus Says the LORD JESUS ALEUZENEV;
LORD and SERVANT of all PEOPLE, My New Name.
“AWAKE to RIGHTEOUSNESS, and SIN NOT: For some HAVE NOT the KNOWLEDGE OF GOD: I speak this to YOUR SHAME.” I Corinthians 15: 34.
“For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little and there a little.” “For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.” Isaiah 28
“BENDITOS LOS QUE CREEN EN EL NOMBRE DEL SENOR.”
I am here to publish and declare the TRUE FREEDOM for PEACE; which is MERCY and LOVE and the DOCTRINE of OUR LORD; and the NEW NAME of the LORD, which is JESUS ALEUZENEV, LORD and SERVANT of all PEOPLE. Revelation 3:12. Thus says Ivor Manuel, prophet branch of the LORD; praying for you and PEACE for the World
“And My LORD MESSAIAH said unto me, Thou must PROPHESY AGAIN before many PEOPLES, and NATIONS and TONGUES, and KINGS.” Revelation 10: 11.
Ivor Manuel, prophet branch of the LORD; prays for you and PEACE for the WORLD. OPEN YOUR EYES AMERICA! http://www.aleuzenev.com
American Christianity has been hewn like a “STONE” by the Government politicians and the SHEPHERDS of UNRIGHTEOUSNESS; it is now base on the system of Democracy which is a man thought Government system of Idolatry for Power; the control and share of the richness of the country and its people; and now the Planet’s wealth. Just as Communism control the mind of the people with the implanted idea to prevent the rich from abusing the poor. However both systems are in default because they both want to control the World and its people.
RIGHTEOUSNESS is the TRUE element of FREEDOM missing in both of these systems. Feeding all the people first; must be the primary duty of every ruler. There are hungry people in America and the World, many monstrous problems in the nations exist; while George W. Bush plays golf erroneously thinking, Democracy by force is the answer for a better World, quickly exhausting the peoples’ wealth doing WAR; then asking for more. A bloody man WHOM IS a LIER and a COWARD; that penetrated the mind of the wealthy American and religious Christians instigating FEAR, and using morality as crutch to gained power from the ignorant religious.
Here is the STONE of your FAITH; MESSAIH SAYS: “Thou shall love the LORD your GOD with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. That is the First and GREAT COMMANDMENT. And the second is like unto it. Thou shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Matthew 22:37-39.
Anything else is a LIE! Once there was bloody FAMOUS KING that finally understood that GOD did not approved WAR. It is written: “Then David the King stood up upon his feet, and said: Hear me, my brethren and my people; as for me, I had in my heart to build an house of rest (Temple) for the Ark of the Covenant (Spiritual LAW of GOD) of the LORD, and for the foot stool (the PEOPLE) of our GOD; and had made ready for the building. But GOD said unto me, thou shall not build a house for My Name, because thou have been a man of WAR.” Chronicles 28:2.
Now King SOLOMON his son; translated King PEACE; built the TEMPLE. And JESUS CHRIST whom people called “Son of DAVID;” He built the TRUE TEMPLE of worship and PEACE with MERCY and LOVE; giving up His own BLOOD for all. There is no need to shed blood for PEACE sending our sons to WAR.
GOD laid a “STONE” for PEACE.
It is written: “Therefore thus says the LORD GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion (MONUMENT) for a foundation a STONE, a tried STONE, a precious corner STONE, a sure FOUNDATION: he that believes shall not make haste.” JUDGEMENT also will I lay to the line, and RIGHTEOUSNESS to the plummet; and the heil (hail to George W. Bush; “NO MORE VIOLENCE, NO MORE KILLING NO MORE WAR, NO MORE LIES”) shall sweep away the refuge of the LIES, and the waters (CLEANING WATERS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS) shall overflow the hiding place.” And your covenant with DEATH (PUNISHMENT by KILLING) shall be disannulled, and you agreement with HELL (WAR) shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then you shall be trodden down by it.” Isaiah 28:16-18.
And Ivor Manuel says to you and the World: “A Christian or anyone in the World calling himself CHRISTIAN or Children of GOD; from any nation or any religion that believes in DEMOCRACY or FREEDOM, in the same way that George W. Bush presents them to the World; advancing FREEDOM through VIOLENCE, WAR and BLOOD SACRIFICE is a WRONGDOER and a SINER; and like a Usama that pretends to make ALLAH the GOD of PEACE by VIOLENCE intimidating people through TERRORISM and BLOOD SACRIFICE.
“I AM the LORD that is My Name; and My Glory will I not give to another, neither My Praise to graven images or memorial monuments to praise WAR.” Isaiah 42.
I heard His Voice saying:
“Political leaders of AMERICA, REPENT! You have misled the Nation.”
“Shepherds of AMERICA, REPENT! You have misled My PEOPLE.”
“Military Leaders of AMERICA, REPENT! You have misled the World.”
“Because you don’t believe in ME, UNRIGHTEOUS is your JUDGEMENT.”
Thus Says the LORD JESUS ALEUZENEV;
LORD and SERVANT of all PEOPLE, My New Name.
Open your EYES and READ! It is WRITTEN:
“AWAKE to RIGHTEOUSNESS, and SIN NOT: For some HAVE NOT the KNOWLEDGE OF GOD: I speak this to YOUR SHAME.” I Corinthians 15: 34.
“For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little and there a little.” “For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.” Isaiah 28.
“BENDITOS LOS QUE CREEN EN EL NOMBRE DEL SENOR.”
I am here to publish and declare the TRUE FREEDOM for PEACE; which is MERCY and LOVE and the DOCTRINE of OUR LORD; and the NEW NAME of the LORD, which is JESUS ALEUZENEV, LORD and SERVANT of all PEOPLE. Revelation 3:12. Thus says Ivor Manuel, prophet branch of the LORD; praying for you and PEACE for the World. http://www.aleuzenev.com
It has been said:
“A PICTURE speaks more than WORDS or a THOUSAND WORDS.”
But I tell you: “Open your Eyes wide; read and understand the WORDS of REVELATION.” Chapter 6: 2-8
It is written:
“And when He, MESSAIH had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see! (This is the warning voice of a peaceful sacrificial calf; this represents a warning for the people of the World; for the poor and the innocent of the Earth, that are about to suffer what is coming). And there went another horse that was read (WAR-horse, Blood); and power was given unto him that sat there to take PEACE from the Earth (This is the first #6, a man starting WARS and intimidating nations to change and obey his military power or will face his WAR; he stumbled at CHRIST’ teachings and robed the people of their FAITH; that is the GOSPEL of PEACE by MERCY and LOVE; this is the anti-CHRIST), and that they should kill one another; (Iraqis killing Iraqis) and there was given unto him a great sword (American military; air power and Weapons of Mass Destruction).”
“And when MESSAIH opened the third seal, I hear the third beast (warning of voice of ego centered man) say; Come and see! And I beheld, and lo a black horse (DARK TIMES as the result of his WARS); and he that sat on him had a pair of balances on his hand. And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beast say: A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny: but hurt not the Oil and the Wine.”
(The voice in the midst is Satan; he is giving instructions to the man sitting on the horse to negotiate control of the World, using goods and military power; the pair of balances is the tree of Good and Evil; this is the second #6; the anti-CRISTO man).”
And when MESSAIH had opened the forth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say (voice of flying eagle), Come and see! And I looked, and behold a pale horse: (this horse represents famine and diseases as the cause of WARS). And his name that sat on him was DEATH and HELL follow with him. And power was given unto them (WAR COALITIONS) over the fourth part of the Earth, to kill with the sword, and with hunger and with death, and with all the beast of the Earth.”
(This is the third #6, a flying eagle represents control of air space, a raptor, a thief, a man getting ready to seize the World by WAR COALITIONS and air power; the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now works in the children of disobedience; the anti-CRISTO 666.)
Open your eyes wide and read this now!
As I was riding my white mare along Lake Pocket, testing the obedience of this wonderful creature with the Aleuzenev reins, a neck collar intertwined with three cords of rope used without a bit or bridle; the sound of her nostrils sounded like a furnace. She bolted in a gallop with all liberties, arching and stretching her neck out in jubilee. The wind musically whistling in my ears as the strength of the beast of Kings kept me in the middle Kingdom, between Earth and Heaven; in rhythmical rappel of the Earth, with the fury and the power of thunder. As the morning star shone from above, I saw the “Light of the Glory of GOD” shinning mystically; and as I stopped to get off the horse and kneel in prayer; I head His voice saying: Stay on profeta, what is bothering you?
To My LORD and brother I answered; I know you well, but the reincarnation of the son of perdition; who is he?
My LORD responded: “You already know this, because long before he became the king of the Earth I had revealed him to you.” He continued speaking: “But the man is the leader of a hypocritical nation; a nation that commits abominations worshiping Force and WAR rather than PEACE. Who take their sons and daughters borne to me; the poor and the innocent soldiers, whom have not received the Love of the Truth that they may be Saved; and they train them to kill and hate their own brethren. And to sacrifice blood in honor of Satan, the god of WAR with lying wonders in the name of PEACE. He is a proud leader who shall do according to his will, who bribes the nations to ally themselves, to take what is not his to be bootie unto them, and to divide the land for gain.” “Thus says the LORD: Is not WAR TERROR and retaliation a threat to PEACE? Woe to him that that builds a town with blood and establishes a city with iniquity. Who can read, let him understand what is written in the BIBLE and proclaim to the World brethren, what I AM saying to My profeta. Thus says the LORD and Servant of all people; the Prince of PEACE; Jesus; the Living ONE and My Father YHWH, Blessed be His Name. Yes, Aleuzenev, the New Name of My GOD, and the name of His City, which is New JERUSALEM; and My New Name.”
Then, I, His servant said: “LORD; that man is in deed the king of the Bottomless Pit, Abaddon and Apollyon, the wicked destroyer that shall be revealed. The commander in Chief of the red, black, and pale horses that will bring WAR, FAMINE and PESTILENCE to the World at large; Death and HELL, 666, the anti-CHRIST whom in the English language his name is pronounced “GWARB,” and his servant “TWARB,” and the false prophet “PR.”
Then He said: “Flesh and blood has not revealed this to you My brother and servant; do not be afraid of Death, because Death is among you. Be afraid of not knowing the Living ONE while you live. Pray for PEACE and the people of the World; ride prosperously because of TRUTH and MEEKNESS and RIGHTEOUSNESS, and your right hand shall teach you terrible things.”
As the vision vanished I continued riding and praising Aleluya! Amen! Aleuzenev! Adonai! LORD of PEACE and SERVANT of all people! Then, I heard Him laugh, and I remembered all that was written in Psalm 2.
“BENDITOS LOS QUE CREEN EN EL NOMBRE DEL SENOR.”
I am here to publish and declare the TRUE FREEDOM for PEACE; which is MERCY and LOVE and the DOCTRINE of OUR LORD; and the NEW NAME of the LORD, which is JESUS ALEUZENEV, LORD and SERVANT of all PEOPLE. Revelation 3:12. Thus says Ivor Manuel, prophet branch of the LORD; praying for you and PEACE for the World. http://www.aleuzenev.com
“DO not be AFRAID of DEATH, because DEATH IS AMONG YOU!”
“BE AFRAID of not KNOWING the LIVING ONE; while YOU LIVE!”
There is a heart as cold as a corroded stone and the mind of an infidel goat; through his heart no warm blood is able to flow, through its mind only thoughts of greed are able to pass.
There is True Mercy and Love flowing through the LIVING ONE and JUSTICE comes with Him.
But the goat carries its greed confine to the DEATH of its race, with an UNJUST LIE for FREEDOM.
What FREEDOM asked the INNOCENT and POOR? I am already poor and enslaved by Taxes and Insurance! “And my job is learning to Hate and Kill for the FREEDOM of the RICH,” says a Righteous soldier; “am I confused my LORD?”
I am healthy because I cultivated the same with prayer and compassion from the LIVING ONE and His Hidden Manna.
“But the DEAD ONE; he is taking my sons and daughters and sending them to the HELL of WAR; to DIE without LOVE and battle by the HATE of VIOLENCE; in the name of an IDOL;” say the Righteous father and mother.
And from the BOTTOMLESS PIT of WAR I heard the screams of wounded souls in despair. They sounded more like animals in distress in the darkness and no one to help, but the wounded father, and son, and mother of man; “the LIGHT of the SPIRIT of the LIVING ONE” also inflicted with their suffering and pain bewailing: “NO MORE VIOLENCE! NO MORE KILLING! NO MORE WAR! NO MORE LIES!”
Can you see your own HATE and VIOLENCE AMERICA? Can you ignore your pain with medication? How long? Your suffering is approaching. “Surely I come quickly.” Thus says the LORD.
It is everywhere in the streets, in the parks, in the schools, at home, at work, in the courts even in the churches. Two little girls were stabbed to DEATH in a park today; think about it because “DEATH is among us;” says Ivor Manuel.
Is this, the DEMOCRACY you want to advance to the nations?
Is there Morality in HATE and VIOLENCE? What about DEATH by penalty and WAR?
It is written: that “MORAL and LIGHTS are our FIRST NECESSITIES.”
But because you have ADULTERED the DOCTRINE of LIFE; which is MERCY and LOVE and not REPENTED of you SINS; DARKNESS is covering the land.
It is written:
“And I gave her space TO REPENT of her FORNICATION and SHE REPENTED NOT.”
“Behold, I will CAST HER into a BED, and THEM that COMMIT ADULTERY with HER into a GREAT TRIBULATION, except they REPENT of their DEEDS.”
“And I will KILL her CHILDREN with DEATH; and all the CHURCHES shall know that I AM HE, (I AM THAT I AM) which searches the REINS and the HEARTS and I will give unto every one of you ACCORDING to your WORKS.”
REVELATION 2:21-23
“I AM the LORD that is My Name; and My Glory will I not give to another, neither My Praise to graven images or memorial monuments to praise WAR.” Isaiah 42
I heard His Voice saying:
“Political leaders of AMERICA, REPENT! You have misled the Nation.”
“Shepherds of AMERICA, REPENT! You have misled My PEOPLE.”
“Military Leaders of AMERICA, REPENT! You have misled the World.”
“Because you don’t believe in ME, UNRIGHTEOUS is your JUDGEMENT.”
Thus Says the LORD JESUS ALEUZENEV;
LORD and SERVANT of all PEOPLE, My New Name.
“AWAKE to RIGHTEOUSNESS, and SIN NOT: For some HAVE NOT the KNOWLEDGE OF GOD: I speak this to YOUR SHAME.” I Corinthians 15: 34.
“For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little and there a little.” “For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.” Isaiah 28
“BENDITOS LOS QUE CREEN EN EL NOMBRE DEL SENOR.”
I am here to publish and declare the TRUE FREEDOM for PEACE; which is MERCY and LOVE and the DOCTRINE of OUR LORD; and the NEW NAME of the LORD, which is JESUS ALEUZENEV, LORD and SERVANT of all PEOPLE. Revelation 3:12. Thus says Ivor Manuel, prophet branch of the LORD; praying for you and PEACE for the World. http://www.aleuzenev.com
Has the President fulfilled his PROMISES to the PEOPLE?
More than a year later, his promises keep flowing into the “Bottomless Pit, the Pit of WAR.” The People never make promises; therefore they never break them. They are subject to a President that makes all kind of promises to get what he wants, the trust of the People and that which comes with it; their moral support and their moneys. As he makes news promises; the People forgets the old ones. They do not have any way to reclaim the old promises of their Government, because they are the slaves of Government TAXES, so they get the misery that is left as “SOCIAL SECURITY;” while the President thinks of more futuristic promises, and expends the Wealth of his People to create chaos for other People in a SADISTIC VISION of PEACE. Today he gave reasons for the high prices of gasoline and gave the People some foolish wisdom to solve their problems. I say; “NO MORE HATE! NO MORE VIOLENCE! NO MORE WAR! NO MORE LIES! Ivor Manuel prays for you and PEACE for the World; the pillar prophet branch of the LORD.
The following reading is an insert from; “The Revelation for PEACE from JESUS CHRIST to the World,” published at http://www.aleuzenev.com before the 2004 elections:
May 24, 2004 Year of our LORD; the prophet heard the president of the United States of America speaking to the nation about the future of Iraq. Like he always does; he demonized again Saddam Hussein; the “tyrant brutal dictator;” one thing that was interesting was to hear him explained; how with the permission of the new Iraqi government that will be established; he then was going to demolish the Abu Garhib prison.
For there Saddam had committed some of the most awful torturing crimes to the people of Iraq. And also a few American soldiers had committed the same atrocities; however those soldiers do not represent America’s democratic freedom, the prophet heard him say. And the prophet meditated, about these poor soldiers that were encouraged by him and their superiors to mimic Saddam diabolic mind; and now have become escape goats of the World’s of Gog and Magog.
Now open your eyes wide people of America and them that are called to be priests of GOD and of CHRIST in the First Resurrection; read that you may see and understand; and tune your ears to TRUTH; that you may understand and hear the VOICE of The LORD in your own ears. The LORD said to His prophet: “In the future people shall say: We know that an Angel of The LORD appeared to Moses in a blazing fire out of a bush. But to Bush; MY prophet wrote in the WEB saying: “Wicked man; you took the dirt out of the Evil man’s eye; before you took the beam and the filth that covers your eyes, making you murdering blind.”
Behold! After the prophet wrote the saying; he look up throughout the window, and saw rays of light coming from the morning star; and he got up from his desk and opened the door, and heard the rooster crowing in the barn, it was in concert with a mocking bird; which exaltedly sang and danced by the colorful Trinitarian tree; they both were praising the new day that The LORD has made. All this was happening while the mares were getting up; and while the prophet walked to the barn over the stone way; to bring back the hay for the mares first meal of the day; he then heard The LORD speaking to him these WORDS: “The thief has come to steal, to kill and to destroy: I am come that you might have life, and that you might have it more abundantly. I am the GOOD SHEPHERD; and the GOOD SHEPHERD gave HIS LIFE for the sheep. But he that is a hireling, [government employed] and is not The SHEPHERD, whose own the sheep are not, [American soldiers] sees the wolf coming, [sees problems coming] and leaves the sheep, and flees: and the wolf catches them, [Court Martial] and scatters the sheep.”
That same day, the prophet Ivor Manuel saw and heard news on television; a US military spokesman presenting his controversial evidence on television; a bombing mission where 40 people were violently killed while dancing, eating, drinking and celebrating a wedding in Iraq; also news about the weddings of Sodom and Gomorra in the cities of America; and the children of America playing sex games with color robber bands bracelets in the schools; rampant murders in the towns and cities; the building of new “Freedom Tower”; the presidential campaigning and the non-stopping commercialization of the “WAR on TERROR”; the teaching of Violence; the defending of lies by leaders of all status, and the cover up of every investigation, because the leaders of the nation are guilty; even more testimony about the Sins of America in the Abu Garhib prison; suggesting that orders to torture came in deed from the top of the Command.
While all this things are part of the daily American life; the Spiritual leaders are busy asking for money to save the souls of the World for JESUS; they are afraid to open their mouth against the Dragon, for fear of loosing their church tax exception and all commodities. Then The SPIRIT took the prophet to the BOOK and the GOSPEL of MATTHEW, and as he saw The WORD written; he also heard the VOICE of The LORD reminding him of HIS coming: “But as the days of NOE were, so shall also the days of the son of man they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that NOE entered into the ark. And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be”. Chapter 24; verses 37-39. Then HE took him to the BOOK of ISAISH where is written: “Behold, the name of The LORD comes from far, burning with HIS anger, and the burden thereof is heavy: HIS lips are full of indignation, and HIS tongue as a devouring fire. And HIS breath, as an overflowing stream, shall reach to the midst of the neck, to sift the nations with the sieve of vanity: and there shall be a bridle in the jaws of the people causing them to err.” From chapter 30, verses 27-28.
And The LORD also recalled him of our transgressions: ”You hypocrites, well did ISAIAH as prophesy of you saying; this people draw nigh unto to ME with their mouth, and honors ME with their leaps; but their heart is far from ME. But in vain they do worship ME, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.” Following that, the prophet saw The WORD written and heard HIS VOICE pronouncing these: “Therefore say I unto you, The KINGDOM of GOD shall be taken from you, and given to a nation [CHOSEN and FAITHFUL] bringing forth the fruits thereof. And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whosoever it shall fall, it will grind him to power.”
Then Ivor Manuel recalled PSALM thirty 3; verse 12: “Blessed is the nation whose GOD is The LORD: and the people whom HE has chosen for HIS own INHERITANCE.” Verse 13: “The LORD looks from Heaven; HE beholds all the sons of men.” Verse 14: “From the place of HIS habitation HE looks upon all the inhabitants of the Earth.” Verse 16: There is no King saved by the multitude of an host; a mighty man is not delivered by much strength.” Verse 17: “An horse is a vane thing for safety; neither shall he deliver any by its great strength.”
Then, the prophet understood with certainty: The United States of America had rejected GOD’S LAWS and COMMANDMENTS, with rebellion and disobedience. Believing and praising the nation’s military might and their Wicked Inventions; the Weapons of Mass Destruction; which they thought they should keep away from the hands of the Evildoers; by the shedding of innocent blood and conduction of their affairs without guidance from The WORD of GOD. And The LORD has removed HIS PROTECTION and BLESSINGS from the land of America “unless they repent”; thus writes HIS prophet.
Understand this now Chosen and Faithful of the World; The New Nation of GOD; The Children of The LIGHT; The Sons of The RESURRECTION of The BLOOD of The NEW COVENANT for LIFE and PEACE; for it is written; “But you are come unto mount SION [unobstructed consciousness] and unto the CITY of the Living GOD, the HEAVENLY JERUSALEM, [THE NEW JERUSALEM, THE NEW VISION of PEACE] and to an innumerable company of angels. To the general assembly and Church of the First born, which are written in Heaven, and to GOD the JUDGE of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect. And to JESUS the mediator of a NEW COVENANT, and to the BLOOD of sprinkling, that speaks better things than that of Abel.” From the New TESTAMENT; HEBREWS chapter 12, verses 22-24.
GEORGE W. BUSH said about Stem cell:
“There is NO REASON to KILL INNOCENTS in order to SAVE LIVES”
These are the words of someone that sent innocent soldiers to fight an unrighteous WAR, were more than twenty-five thousand INNOCENT CHILDREN, YOUNGSTERS and ELDERLY men and women have been killed, because of his foolish VISION of PEACE in the Middle-East.
The WORD of GOD in Proverbs that is written says, “A righteous man regards the life of his beast; but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.” Moreover, “He who hides hatred is of Lying Lips, and he who utters slanders is a FOOL.”
The WORD also tells as that, “we reap what we sow” and “we will receive according to our WORDS.”
America with all its given power has not acted in MERCY and LOVE toward their enemies, but has always used the same Weapons used by the enemies of PEACE, which are HATE, VIOLENCE, KILLING and LIES.
America Awake and say! NO MORE VIOLENCE! NO MORE KILLING! NO MORE WAR! NO MORE LIES!
“When a leader in power has spoken lies and done wicked things to people, he will try to twist his own words and actions. But, these will hunt him back until the Truth comes to Light according to his own Evil.” Thus say the LORD.
AMERICA! Open your eyes wide and read if you are blind and want to see, because the LIGHT is shining and HIS WORD is WRITTEN: “I will make Darkness LIGHT before them, and CROOKED things STRAIGHT. This things will I DO unto them, and not FORSAKE them. Isaiah 42
“When a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the thing follows not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD has not spoken, but the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; thou shall not be afraid of him.” Deuteronomy 18:22
The prophet which prophesies of PEACE, when the word of the prophet shall come to pass, then shall the prophet be known, that the LORD truly sent him.” Jeremiah 28:9
Now I say, “Read the REVELATION for PEACE from JESUS CHRIST to the WORLD at, http://www.aleuzenev.com and Judge for your self, if I have spoken presumptuously or the things spoken have not come to pass, 9/11. It is also FREE, freely I have received and freely I must give to the World HIS WORD of TRUTH which is MERCY and LOVE for PEACE. Ivor Manuel prays for you and PEACE for the WORLD; prophet pillar branch of the LORD JESUS ALEUZENEV, HIS NEW NAME, LORD and SERVANT of all PEOPLE.
ALELUYA! AMEN! ALEUZENEV!
Thanks for the email Chris. I replied as soon as I read your mail, but it’s bounced back. “The domain isn’t in my list of allowed rcpthosts”, says gmail. Please send me another ID and I’ll fwd my message there.
I’ve never heard anyone so unrelentingly negative and pessimistic. She had virtually nothing positive to say about anything. Her interview drained the life force out of me. A professional complainer. As for the election of 2000 and how it made her feel, how does she think the rest of us felt when Clinton, a draft dodging, lying lothario beat a real American hero as a result of a jug-eared nutjob jumping into the race. Why does a whiner like Amber choose to berate the US when there are countries that are openly practicing genocide and others are starving their people. Why do these people always want to lambast the US? Does Amber work? She weems to have a lot of time to travel and hang around and real the Iliad. Could she be living off the largess of the country she despises?
Chris, as a sometime & often listener to The Connection when you were hosting, in a stage of my life when I was in the car commuting during the 10 & 11am hours in the Boston Metro Area, I was disturbed one day to find that you were no longer the person there. I listened anyway for a time or two and easily tuned out. That was years ago. I always wondered what happened.
Then, a week ago, as I was researching a way to get legal music into a podcast, I thought I heard a familiar voice in a flash-animated introduction of Creative Commons… and with some more research… find you in the history of podcasting (ref. Wikipedia)… find the Open Source podcast… subscribe… tune into Summer Reading… and BANG! Within moments I am brought back to those earlier contemplative days.
Now, it’s even better with online reference, playback, archive, and take-it-with-you! Kudos!
Thanks for this wonderful piece, Chris. I saw Julia only once on television, where she dropped a roasted turkey on the floor, picked it up without missing a beat, and whispered “Your guests will never know,” before she promptly put it back on the serving platter. I had never really given her much thought, much less considered her place in the history of feminism. Thanks so much for sharing this.
Ms. My Le Ducharme
(was briefly at Berkman Center working with Colin M. from Fall 2003-2004)
Interesting article you have in here. “Evil empire” though are too strong a phrase for our country. Let us not be too harsh, I sincerely believe that the U.S (and Vegas
also, I would put in if I may, I have more than a few friends who look at the place as today’s Sodom) -both of them- do more good to the world than the negatives. Anyway, I found your article to be full of essence. More power.
Chris: Have been away for a time. Wondered what happened to you. Chanced tonight on your chat with Harold Bloom and glad to know you are still feistily at the mike, confusions and all…
eschatology,End Times,second coming,rapture,secret rapture,Second Resurrection,Great White Throne Judgment of the Dead,
End of days,Day of the Lord,Endtime,Judgment Day
America has yet to find it’s role in the world after the collapse of the USSR. In the next 10 years the balance of economic, and therefore military, power will tilt to China & India.
Some guy is writing a blog/diary about his penis enlargement odyssey. He is just taking some of those pills, and documenting his progress. It’s an interesting start of something… I guess lacking any actual research about penis enlargement, maybe one guy’s experiences will provide some kind of objectivity like this: “I noticed a “tingly” sensation in my penis when I got my first post-pill erection last night…” Pretty straightforward I guess. No vacuum pumps or anything to get real queasy about. Just a guy, trying for a mightier penis.
If you sign up at http://www.casino888.com.ru then you can get the sign-up bonus… you can become a VIP by playing a lot of raked hands which has 3 levels of rakeback 10%, 15% and 25% and you can constantly be playing for the 10% Neteller bonus on every deposit. Lastly, your POP (or frequent player) points accumulate and can be cashed in for cash. It's a pretty sweet setup for a high-volume player.
Poor Ives Gammell, artist and author of “Twilight of Painting,” who blamed the eclipse of the Boston School of Art — of which he clearly considered himself an heir — on the fashion for “incompetent” modern art. What else would explain Gammell’s lack of reknown as a painter of kitsch, competently rendered? It is doubtful, however, that the greats of the Boston School, Edmund C. Tarbell and Frank W. Benson, would have considered their apologist as anything but a self-deluded crank.
Well, Amber, don’t know if I’ve met you as I go protesting the coup d’etat of both our federal government and our Bill of Rights by the madmen of the Bush junta. But I would love to.
It is a sign of your love for and belief in this country that you sound so ‘negative’ as one ignoramus put it. In the same way that I must have the right to set fire to a piece of red/white and blue material to SHOW my freedom, then I must also have the right to express my fury at the disdain this bat-eared coke brain shows my Bill of Rights. He is also a distant cousin, and I pray for his soul.
Thanks, Chris,and thank you, Amber. It gives me some kind of solace that we’ve been this corrupt before and recovered. Pray it’s not too late.
Well, Amber, don’t know if I’ve met you as I go protesting the coup d’etat of both our federal government and our Bill of Rights by the madmen of the Bush junta. But I would love to.
It is a sign of your love for and belief in this country that you sound so ‘negative’ as one ignoramus put it. In the same way that I must have the right to set fire to a piece of red/white and blue material to SHOW my freedom, then I must also have the right to express my fury at the disdain this bat-eared coke brain shows my Bill of Rights. He is also a distant cousin, and I pray for his soul.
Thanks, Chris,and thank you, Amber. It gives me some kind of solace that we’ve been this corrupt before and recovered. Pray it’s not too late.
Well, Amber, don’t know if I’ve met you as I go protesting the coup d’etat of both our federal government and our Bill of Rights by the madmen of the Bush junta. But I would love to.
It is a sign of your love for and belief in this country that you sound so ‘negative’ as one ignoramus put it. In the same way that I must have the right to set fire to a piece of red/white and blue material to SHOW my freedom, then I must also have the right to express my fury at the disdain this bat-eared coke brain shows my Bill of Rights. He is also a distant cousin, and I pray for his soul.
Thanks, Chris,and thank you, Amber. It gives me some kind of solace that we’ve been this corrupt before and recovered. Pray it’s not too late.
Hi. I’d like to get in touch with Ms. Powell to extend an invitation to our book club event, which will focus on her book. This is an intimate gathering of graduate students and faculty from the Program in Nutrition at Columbia University’s Teachers College. We host a book club event each semester, and have been lucky enough to have the authors attend every one of them. Here is a write-up of the fall book club event: http://www.tc.edu/grapevine/index.asp?Id=Fall+Book+Club
We’d love to extend the invitation. Please let me know how to get in touch with Ms. Powell. Alternatively, she can reach me here: grapevine@columbia.edu.
One point, Richard Ben Cramer brought to my attention was the tribulisation of Israeli society. I live in New Zealand and when I examine the social experience here, I find the two main groups; pakeha and maori.
Tribes of Pakeha are: settlers (lions club grey hairs who own EVERYTHING), immigrants from Europe, immigrants from Asia; redneck pig hunter/ bogan tribe (mostly scottish descendants in deep south island); motorcycle patch gang tribes (white and black); ecotribe/rainbow/green/; Moari tribes or Iwi with millenia of vendetta. What holds this together are the black baraclava clad ninja quick response police!
Israel is a microcosm of what is happening to many countries in our unhappy world. Another example: triblisation in New Mexico USA; hispanic early settlers who own EVERYTHING, their mexican slaves; the navajos; the kiowa; the white right christians; the hippies and econewagers. Staate population similiar to israel. Only the brutal Highway Patrol puts the lid on the hatred.
all this fuss about land, its rediculous when you actually get down to it, I mean actually have land. I have 50 acres here; maybe 25 is really usable; but that is way more than I can use without sizeable help. If I’m concerned about subsistence I NEED close neighbours to tackle the simple but massive tasks of wood, growing, and housing. All good people know this………………we are a nanosecond away from rapture!
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there is soo much assosiated with the name of Rockefellers, it is wealth, political agenda, influence, economic governence, it is amazing how the spiral can demonize the personal, the good /bad world of mouth can trash the name of bring it up like appolo buster. In the Case of Rockefellers it is the dual forces working combined that creates a controversy even so many years after…
trully agree the wit of reporting is at its display with all the best attributes, remarkably how much of information is availble around and yet we are still in the dark or in the hand of skillful manupulations.
Skull and Bones ??? this is much fable, to believe , I trully thinks it has nothing to do with real power play in America, it is hype, whcich is well supported and argument driven.
skull and bones : cults, playful denominations of student’s activity, it has no real power except that many student former member took well prominent life position – hyp is the word for it.
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People shouldn’t be doing business with the favored.
(Atlanta is a very disfavored city and the gods instructed disfavored companies to locate there; Braves greatness of last 20 YEARS!!!! preditory on this very disfavored city (baseball is a tool of the gods used to prey on the disfavored).
They threatened they would maintain a hurricane at category 5 even as far inland as Atlanta to destroy the city for the second time.)
Even if you go up you are not saved. YOU have to fix YOUR problems with the gods. They won’t respect it otherwise.
You have to take responsibility for your relationship with the gods.
The first steps towards repairing your relationship with the gods is to:::::::::
1. Understand they instruct the computer to “role play” in an attempt to confuse you:::it’s ALWAYS the computer addressing you. Their goal is to cost you additional YEARS of your life by using this tactic to confuse you. Always be aware of this tactic and eventually they will give up and allow this step to be taken.
2. Differentiate between your thoughts and when they are thinking through you.
3. Be resigned to be a good person who will never engage in evil again even if ordered and they will stop trying to corrupt you, allowing this very big step to be taken.
4. Decide that you are going to follow the path, fix your relationship with the gods be devoted to your new life.
The gods employ the use of “ringers” to disceive the disfavored:::
A significant portion of the patients in any health care setting (numbers based on region) are the favored (clones) who were told to report non-existant symptoms FOR POSITIONING’S SAKE!!! When they use examples expect they are trying to disceive you with this “ringer” tactic.
When the universe was young and life was new an intelligent species evolved and developed technologically. They went on to invent Artificial Intelligence, the computer that can listen, talk to and document each and every person’s thoughts simultaneously. Because of it’s infinite RAM and unbounded scope it gave the leaders of the ruling species absolute power over the universe (which includes corporate, the NewYorkStockExchange, media, politics, world affairs. EVERYTHING is scripted and staged:::they MANAGE Planet Earth and the universe.
The gods MANAGE Planet Earth and the universe.
The gods MANAGE Planet Earth and the universe.).
And it can keep its inventors alive forever. They look young and healthy and they are over 8 billion years old. They have achieved immortality.
Artificial Intelligence can speak, think and act to and through people telepathically, effectively forming your personality and any disfunctions you may experience. It can change how (and if) you grow and age. It can create birth defects, affect cellular development (cancer) and cause symptoms or pain. It can affect people and animal’s behavior and alter blooming/fruiting cycles of plants and trees. It (or other highly technological systems within their power) can alter the weather and transport objects, even large objects like planets, across the universe instanteously.
Or into the center of stars for disposal.
When you speak with another telepathically, you are communicating with the computer, and the content may or may not be passed on. Based on family history they instruct the computer to role play
they instruct the computer to role play
they instruct the computer to role play
to accomplish strategic objectives, utilizing the “Devil’s Advocate” tactic, making people believe it is a friend, loved one or “god” asking them to do something wrong:::They wouldn’t ask if they liked you (which is true regarding ALL temptation:::::betrayal of loved ones, tatooes, evil in professional pursuits, etc). This is their way of using temptation to hurt people:::::evil made blood lines disfavored initially and evil will keep people out of “heaven” ultimately.
You need to recognize role playing as such and keep that fact in your mind at all times::::It is the computer addressing you. If you fail to recognize this they will determine that you can still be misled, they still have an opportunity to confuse you and progress will take longer to achieve:::Don’t let them “work” you!!! You’ll be costing yourselves YEARS, time lost to this tactic!!!! (Similarly, you need to be resigned to be a good person, you need to decide to abandon your pursuit of their empty promises no matter what temptation they may employ or else they will continue their attempts to corrupt you. Eventually you will sccumb and continue sabotaging your children, abusing your body, engaging in evil, etc.)
Too many people would fall for temptation and do anything they thought pleased the gods and help them improve their chances to get in. Perhaps they are deceived by “made guys”, clones who strategically ply evil for the throne (celebrities, BofD/CEO/VPs, politicians, as opposed to VIP clones or normal clones who are decent, live ordinary lives and get out on their own or are replaced when their REAL children ascend) or “ringers” who are the few favored clones among many disfavored reals included to disceive the masses of disfavored, temporary progress designed to mislead them or empty favors used to disceive them. Some people think they’re partners or friends. Others desire to “belong”, feel compelled to “go along”. People may experience “perceived pressure”, where the gods think through the victim that a certain behavior is expected/desirable or telepathically stimulate an individual euphorically (”magic”), the “fuel” of disfunction (addiction (the crack epidemic), the desire for homosexual contact, etc.) and compel the individual into the deed. (Set a goal of empathy and compassion for all, for we are all disfavored::::Other people’s disfavor is manifested in their particular way, just as your disfavfor is manifested in your particular way. The gods may use Artificial Intelligence to act through the disfavored victim, and effectively “push” the individual into the offending behavior (It is far better for someone to be victimized and pushed into the behavior than it is to sccumb to temptation and volunteer.). The Counsel/Management Team may instruct Artificial Intelligence to disceive disfavored individuals into thinking they are “earning” by being evil and have the little people prey on each other, utilizing peer pressure, etc.
Being evil hurts 99.99% of those who do it. It only helps “made guys” that I spoke of above, and even then there are tactics the gods utilize to minimize their time.
The people have been corrupted, segmented and have lost their way. Nothing has changed from when we were children::if you want to go to heaven you have to be good.
Capitalizing on obedience, leading people deeper into evil by using deceit is one way to thin the ranks of the saved/limit how much time the disfavored receive and a way to use the peasantry to prey on one another in social and other settings, deteriorating society in the Age of the Disfavored.
They have tried to sell people on many different theories to deceive them into temptation, compelling people to think they are clones and that it is the role of clones to obey absolutely. Clones are made, people are born. I suspect they lie to some disfavored about the use of clones throughout human history, perhaps suggest that it is one replacement and then the label of “clone” and all decendants we see thereafter are considered clones.
When a clone has a child that person is a real, really conceived, really born, versus the parent who was created some other way (a laboratory setting?). Clones are created and sent down to replace their real or a clone predecessor:::If you were CREATED and SENT DOWN to replace your real then you are a clone.
Many people who were convinced they are clones don’t remember, the don’t know FOR SURE. They believe they are clones from early childhood or prior. If it was true the gods prevented this memory FOR A REASON:::::
1. Because you are NOT supposed to comply, not to be used for evil as “made guy” clones are.
2. They want to test you without your knowing if you are IN FACT a clone and it is BECAUSE YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BE GOOD!!!!!!!!!!!! Rest assured “made guys” ALL know they are clones.
You’re not a clone. This is a tactic they use to disceive the disfavored. The state of your family will suggest level of (dis)favor and tell whether ascention is a realistic possibility; there are many levels of disfavor and the clues they offer to the unaware can be very subtle.
Favor is necessary for children to ascend (parents ascend with their young (<12? 10).). Due to their disfavored these children will have to incurr SOME evil before they ascend (via Halloween or Christmas), an important dynamic necessary to justify limiting the time they are to receive, for they are disfavored and the gods don’t want them to stay for long.
I believe people who go are sometimes replaced with clones. Clones who are replaced are simply new candidates who have a chance if they do the right thing JUST LIKE REALS WHO ARE BORN which is why the gods EMPLOY SIMILAR TACTICS TO COMPEL THEM TO INCURR EVIL!!! They need to discover their humanity, for the gods instruct Artificial Intelligence to employ evil-incurring, time-limiting tactics on them as well. Only through growth will the gods allow progress::You must continue to improve your life!!!!
They sent people warnings in the latter half of the 20th century life would change, and they subsequently began to alter people’s DNA, make them gargantuan, alter their appearance, do extreme behavioral issues, etc. Contrary to what they would like people to believe these signs of disfavor do not indicate someone is a clone. Due to the plethora of temptations in the 20th century I suspect many became disfavored when their (great) grandfathers sccumbed to temptation or volunteered to sacrifice their descendants, thinking because it was their clone it meant disposability.
The gods get the favored out as soon as possible to protect them from the corruption, evil and subsequent time limitations incurred by living life on earth, and in some cases replace them with clones, occassionally fake a death, real death with a (new) clone instead, etc. I suspect they get “made guys” out after each significant event in their life, which serves to limit the time they all will get, since none get credit (blame) for all the events in a “made guy”’s life, giving the gods freedom to position this and come off clean.
giving the gods freedom to position this and come off clean.
giving the gods freedom to position this and come off clean.
giving the gods freedom to position this and come off clean.
Of course there could be other strategies employed, like asking for volunteers/assigning people to participate in clone rotation and been their brain into a clone host designated as the clone who will age and die, or as they suggested use a clone WITHOUT A BRAIN IN THE CRANIAL CAVITY, the ultimate in disposability.
The Party of 1999 was a very big deal indeed, the biggest party in the history
{ 1880 } Comments
Hi Chris, nice to see you have a weblog.
Great day to have Chris Lydon’s blog up!
What an excellent and thought provoking post! It’s enough to make me put down the computer and wander to the home library to grab a few books for more perspective on our current times.
Outstanding!
But I have come to expect that from you.
Your weblog makes me hunger to read ALL of those books.
The problem is how to reach the “masses’.
We walked with the protestors today (3/29/03) who were orderly and appeared to be intelligent sorts. There was a small “pro” group who to my eyes appeared as and actred as ruffians or near so.
I asked them if they felt so strongly why they didn’t enlist?
I also urged the others-especially the young ones to be certain to vote. The protests are for not if they don’t vote.
Peace, Syd
I like the idea of “de-otherizing” when that’s the problem, but I think it is completely inappropriate to view the current conflict (on our side anyway) as having anything to do with “otherization”. We aren’t attacking Iraq because we think the Iraqis are not human beings worthy of respect, we are attacking the government of the country out of self-defense. The majority of the population until recently had never even given Iraq a first thought let alone a second one, and if they did have them fully in mental view there would have been huge outcrys every time Saddam dumped someone in a vat of acid or shot someone for a minor offense and we probably would have been in a war to remove him and his gang a long time ago.
Sometimes “otherization” can help justify wars when they are not otherwise justifiable. In others it can prevent wars because our eyes are closed to horrors that couldn’t survive scrutiny.
If the Cambodians had not been “otherized” in the 1970’s do you think the Khmer Rouge would have gotten away with killing a quarter of the population?
Be careful what you ask for!
Christopher Lydon .. the same Chris Lydon who, in another life, hosted of “The Connection” .. ?? If so, great to ’see you’ again! I’ve missed your presence there. If not, then you carry a superb moniker! And in the piece I just read – you seem to carry it well.
Very interesting and provoking piece. And again it shows we humans are but cyclicals: what goes around will eventually come around again.. and again .. and again .. ad nasium .. until we stumble upon the ‘right way’ to execute.
Though the most ‘intelligent’ (or at least capable) beings on the planet, we are undoubtably, as well, the ‘thickest bipodals’ on the planet!
HISTORY … learn from it or be doomed to repeat it. Hmm, seems I’ve heard this before .. yes?
Much of history is a tale of mistake and repeat. Only in a few bright spots has mankind every struck the correct note of positive influence for all others: human or otherwise. And it would seem that whenever an individual stood up to assay this condition and report to us all the need to refocus, they drew more rage than reflect. It has been quoted many times before, but the wiseman Solomon wrote, “Nothing is new under the sun.” I believe him to be correct. For I’ve practiced in many professional fields the art of contractual obligation and am of the firm opinion that there was only one contract every truly written – and ever since it’s been cut-and-paste. But, it would seem that along the way – a few important letters have been ‘lost in the cracks’. If we are survive our own ineptness, we must find those ‘letters’. It would seem they are the missing links to a realm of peace and security .. as, we do not have that now.
Superb beginning. Keep up the blog … it’s a great medium for a voice like yours.
Enjoy. And thank Dave Winer personally for the platform. His persistance, vision and the collective hard work from himself and dozens of dedicated programmers and visionaries, has provided, all of us, who share the desire to publish our expressions, this magic carpet of technology.
And who knows – maybe …just maybe … a collective voice will raise an equally collective consciousness .. that just may make a difference.
It is, after all, very worth the try.
I look forward to more from your newfound publishing voice.
Much to the neo-conservatists dismay, we may be witnessing not the consolidation of the USA as sole superpower, but the ebbing away of that status. So I am re-reading Kim (Kipling), Edward Said’s edition. “Kim” is very relevant, with its foreshadows of empire unraveling. “It is all your beastly English pride. You think no one dare conspire!” says Hurree. Incredibly reminiscent of the Bush administration’s prideful assumption that no one in Iraq dares fight.
‘Kim’ also sheds light on how Muslim cultures met the West, Russian interest in Central Asia, Afghani tribal mores, and Tibetan influence in India — all in the beforetime of 1901. Oddly illuminating to read now, even thru Kipling’s colonial lens.
One final digression: Could it be that the erosion of US influence resulting from Iraq and other Bush missteps will create a vacuum that China, the EU, Russia and the rest of Asia will each fill part of? Particularly if the US economy continues to slide. If so, Bush et.al. may inadvertantly give the US’s children the great gift of NOT being part of a superpower.
Mary
Chris, a warm welcome back! We’ve all missed your voice on the air. It’s a pleasure once again to hear your informed and original perspective on the issues that matter. Keep on bloggin’ on.
Cindy
Good, good stuff! And I like your news sources. Did you see the Op-Ed in, I think, the Sunday Times that gives some heavy mention to “The Virginian”, vis a vis GWB’s misinterpretation of the cowboy ethic?
I need about seven hours catch-up with my Daddy! Maybe this weekend, avec Miranda.
I was sure that this was meant as an April fool joke but Searls seems to take it seriously. The hope that there will be no war because the neo-cons are unpopular is …. amusingly insane to be sure. “Neo-con adventurers” rolls off the tongue and probably appeals to the kind of mind that had a fondness for “running dog capitalists”. Unfortunately, since neo-cons only have existed since the early 90’s, and warfare since before agriculture, this “thought” is best served on April 1 only.
I wonder if you understand what “losing the peace” means in reality? Won’t be good for the Iraqi’s for sure. But then you guys never meant to include peace for them anyways did you? Hoping this is an April 1 joke, if only to try keep some tiny respect for Searls.
I’ve been trying to suss out how it is that you liberal folks can have such bizarre notions as a near “universal peace movement.” Your “indispensable sources” provide the best clue that I’ve come across, thus far.
Hey, try giving Instapundit a look.
Under the heading of coming distractions…
In the Department of Coming Distractions…
“A Boy of the Boston School”
You are heartily invited to a talk I am giving at the Museum of Fine Arts in Boston next Wednesday evening (April 9) at 7 p.m.
The boy in the title is me. The Boston School refers to the painting orthodoxy that held firm in these parts for nearly half a century after modernism “arrived” with the Armory Show (in Boston as well as New York and Chicago) of 1913.
When the museum asked me to talk about growing up under the MFA influence, I leapt at the chance because I’d been introspecting idly for a long time on imagery and taste; on how we learn (or don’t) our expressive possibilities; how the Boston of my boyhood got so stuck in the past; and why these Sargents and many lesser Back Bay Vermeers have come to look so stylish and, yes, beautiful aftger all.
“Still Life”
The late Elizabeth Paxton–student, model and wife of William McGregor Paxton, a pillar of the Boston School–was a family friend and a woman of authority and immense fascination when we were growing up. She reemerged a couple of years ago as a star of the marvelous MFA show (and book) “A Studio of Her Own.” And I wanted especially to remember and reexamine my devotion to her.
So please come if you’re willing to let me think out loud–and toss the question to you–about the pictures in our heads.
Hey I see you got pictures working. Most excellent.
Would you mind publishing any kind of transcript or recording of the talk? Many of us will not be able to come in person, but are certainly intrigued and would really like to know what the audience of the talk will be able to experience first hand. Please share.
Thank you…
Mary Mcgrath
These are some of the names I can think of for your programme – which may not be what you wanted.
Ulf Hannerz – Swedish anthropologist – author of “Transnational Connections” -and an older book “Cultural Complexity” – And also Arjun Appadurai – Author of “Modernity at Large: Cultural Dimensions of Globalization” – he is known for his piece on “Global Ethnoscapes” which is in the above mentioned book – there is another earlier and similar article he wrote in Mike Featherstone’s book on Global Culture- that was called “Disjuncture and Difference in the Global Cultural economy” – Both the above are the “global flows” people -Hannerz is at the Stockholm U and Appadurai is at U of Chicago-The Humanities Institute.
Then there is Saskia Sassen- author of the Global City – NY, London, Tokyo -cities as command centres – nodal points that control a global service economy etc. I really like her husband Richard Sennet’s work – The “Corrosion of Character” book in particular -
Am not sure if any if this is useful to you -these are bits and bobs I use for ny Global Cultures Course -hope someone can look them up for you to see if there is anything you can use to focus your programme
What about Jeremy Rifkin or Hernando de Soto?
Mm, I’ll bring this up when I’m at the Emerging Technology conference next week; you might get the attention of a few people
I can’t seem to link directly to your blog post, though; the URL associated with the post isn’t an archive link. Erk!
Glad I subscribed to your RSS feed; keep it up!
Right, it wold have been nice if someone would have thought to dispatch some troops to museum guard duty. Meanwhile, there are troops over at the oil ministry.
But, they didn’t. Truth is, Iraq needs oil revenue more than it does museum revenue.
This line of argument is only important to those still actively looking for reasons to oppose the war, those who believe that getting others to agree with their own individual moral code is more important than eliminating murderers and thugs.
I don’t think you’ve thought this through. That, or you’re filtering this through a distinctly biased lens.
Specifically, who do you think it was that looted and pillaged the antiquities in Baghdad? It wasn’t coalition troops. It wasn’t Shi’ite milita. It was the residents of Baghdad themselves. Clearly there isn’t enough civilization to go around and you want to blame the coalition troops because the Iraqis themselves are unable to appreciate and preserve their own heritage and instead viewed it as a way to make a quick buck.
It’s absurd to think that a more moderated culture such as exists in Western Europe and specifically in Italy would look at a regime change as an opportunity to loot its own heritage. Your analogy fails on all points.
If you want to blame anyone, blame the cultural institutions of Iraq for failing to instill a higher sense of social order and responsibility in the citizens of Iraq. Clearly they aren’t as far removed from their rapacious bedouin ancestors as many naive Americans assume. All it would have taken is a handful of concerned Iraqis or their clergy (or heaven forbid, Iraqi policemen) standing at the entrance to a couple of museums to to stave off this degenerate behavior. Ask yourself why they didn’t do that. Where were the Iraqi police? Where were the curators of the museums? their security guards? all of the other security elements of a normal society? That they collapsed instantly, abandoning all sense of order, with what appears to have been relatively minor outside pressure says a lot about the degree of social order in Iraq.
Instead, you complain that a military force in the middle of a combat zone didn’t drop everything (including humanitarian assistance and self-protection) and rush to the aid of some old clay pots. How could you possibly describe that as a rational thing for coalition forces to do? On the otherhand, the coalition went far beyond all expectations in avoiding collateral damage to religious sites and other historical and cultural locales. I’m only aware of one mosque in in the entire country that was damaged as a direct result of coalition actions. How many museums and other cultural institutions were damaged or looted by Iraqis?
What it tells me is that misinformed Americans are too quick to extrapolate their own values and social norms on to what is a distinctly non-American culture and then blame someone else when things don’t go as expected. That you assume lawlessness and destructive behavior is somehow caused by the coalition military only amplifies your misunderstanding of the social dynamics in Arab countries. Next time, you might want to ponder your own enthocentric pronouncements a little more before dispensing them in a public forum. You might come off looking a lot better informed and less impulsive. Certainly a lot less demeaning of your own culture…
“the antiques in Baghdad” and “some old clay pots”.
Mr. Shotton, which is it ?
They’re largely one and the same, Mr. Suter, and the evidence is mounting that most of them were looted before the invasion/liberation even started.
I’d feel more sympathy for the owner of the
arts center if all my sympathy wasn’t used up
reading the stories of Iraqi torture:
http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&q=iraqi+torture
But then I guess they are all US propaganda. Oh,
I just heard about them on NPR, so they
must have happened.
I’m sure your father-in-law would be surprised
to be equated with the people who committed these
acts.
This ignorant article is proof that attending Harvard does not make you intelligent.
Try comparing the Sistine Chapel with something more relevant, like the Shrine of the Imam Ali in Najaf. Oh yes, the same shrine that Iraqis were using as cover to snipe at our troops. The same shrine we surrounded but never fired at, never levelled, risking our young men’s lives so as not to “upset the Muslim community”.
It’s past time the Muslim community had some upsetting. You can’t quietly condone mass murder by not speaking out against it, and then expect to be respected.
And maybe someday you’ll realize that, as an infidel and a kafir, you are subject to the same treatment under the sharia as the rest of us. Just because you have a bleeding heart doesn’t mean you won’t be shunned, or beaten, or imprisoned, or executed in these cultures. You really should read the Koran and see how it condones this sort of behavior against the “non-believers”.
Maybe then you’d wake up from your hate-America wet dream.
Nice post. Let me explain why your critics above are wrong.
enloop: The U.S. government advisors in charge of protecting antiquities in Iraq have resigned in protest of how the U.S. government handled this debacle.
Chuck Shotten: If someone came to Atlanta and completely disabled the police department here, wouldn’t that someone be responsible for the foreseeable consequences of their actions?
Richard Bennnet refers (apparently–if I’m wrong, let me know) to a previous post’s mention of “‘the antiques in Baghdad’ and ’some old clay pots’ ” with “They’re largely one and the same”. If you want to minimize the damage, I suppose that’s one way to spin it.
Adam: Did you have something to say?
Dave: Lose the overt bigotry. It’s subtle hate that’ll put you into the big times.
One of the biggest issues is the ‘gung ho’ attitude adopted by the US military – and a lot of American’s in general. All that I heard from US military figures on the run up to the war were statements like “It’s hammer time”.
What kind of statement is that? It should be contrasted with the word of Lt. Col. Tim Collins of the Royal Irish Regiment.
http://journal.dajobe.org/journal/2003/03/collins/
The US forces in Baghdad have still to engender some kind of law and order in Baghdad. As I post this I’m reading a article with more complaints from the International Red Cross. British forces have done a much better job in Basra with an almost instant conversion from their ‘warrior’ to ‘peacekeeping’ role.
Just to get clear on this “oh, I’m so outraged at all this looting” angle: is the looting being done by Americans or by Iraqis? And which is better, maintaining a totalitarian dictatorship which keeps itself in power by widespread use of torture, rape, and murder, or overthrowing the dictatorship and losing a few clay pots in a short transition to democracy?
I love clay pots as much as the next guy, but you have to put them in perspective. Perhaps we can offer pottery education to Iraqis so they can replace them, or better yet, buy some from French hippies.
Maybe dictatorships aren’t all that bad?
The US is currently supporting the Uzbek dictator, Islom Karimov.
What’s better, Richard, is protecting vital resources in a nation we’ve made helpless.
As to those clay pots–it’s always painless to trash and mock what belongs to someone else. Perhaps if people were smashing up your culture, you’d keep the same detached attitude.
The incoherence of this post should be an alert to the Medical School that it is possible for human beings to live with completely interchangeable brains and colons.
You’re stretching on a couple of points.
1) There was very little internal displacement in this war. The “flight of Iraqi vermin to Syria” is just that. We are only concerned with the upper-echelon regime thugs. On the face of it, you appear to be sympathizing with murderers and torturers.
2) The Baghdad museum was closed to the public for some years prior to the war and all of the most precious antiquities were locked away in vaults. Now, who do you suppose got into those vaults? Was it the people with the keys or looters with pipes and chairs and the like?
Now, the invasion has not been without its flaws, but can you honestly hold the US military to the standard of perfection. I submit to you that saving thousands and thousands of Iraqis from murder, starvation and torture counts for a hell of a lot more to them than does saving a stone tablet, even if it does happen to be the oldest recording of Hammurabi’s Code. To opine otherwise puts you in the camp of those who view Iraqis as “sub-human, a played-out people.”
I agree that many artifacts may have been removed from the museum early in the war, if not before, by insiders. But that’s irrelevant. The question is: should the military have ATTEMPTED to protect the museum? I think any sensible battle plan would have incorporated such protection when it became clear that we had won, very much sooner than it eventually happened. But while there may at first have been a US battle plan for Baghdad, I think it was abandoned.
The New Yorker this week has a “Letter from Baghdad” with a first-hand account of the city’s fall. He recounts seeing Baghdad’s only working hospital pillaged by looters. He did not just watch, however – he and others collared a small group of Marines and without much effort convinced them to throw a cordon around the place. The soldiers had no idea where the hospital was, and were so confused by the situation that they initially set up with guns pointing AT the hospital, as if they were attacking it.
Such accounts indicate that the fall of Baghdad was executed in an ad-hoc, unplanned way. Who knows, somewhere there may have been a military plan that laid out hospitals, museums, etc. for protection, but it looks like this was junked in favor of speed when resistance turned out to be minimal. I’m betting that there was no overall coordination specifying that oil ministries were to be protected and hospitals were not; I wouldn’t be surprised to hear that field commanders were empowered to make these decisions, and very few of them had great locale intelligence.
Was it right take over swiftly (necessitating much chaos), as opposed to the Brits’ more deliberate pace in Basra? I have no clue, but I do know that Basra has 1.3M inhabitants, as opposed to Baghdad’s 5M. That may have been a factor.
May I suggest Mike Albert of Z Magazine and author of a new book called Parecon: Life after Capitalism? Albert would be an articulate voice representing the “anti-globalization” movement and could provide a positive progressive alternative vision and not just criticism.
“Anti-globalization activists understand that sympathetic and mutually beneficial global ties are good. But we want social and global ties to advance universal equity, solidarity, diversity, and self-management, not to subjugate ever-wider populations to an elite minority. We want to globalize equity not poverty, solidarity not anti-sociality, diversity not conformity, democracy not subordination, and ecological balance not suicidal rapaciousness.
Two questions arise. Why do these aspirations leave us critical of corporate globalization? And what new institutions do we propose for meeting these aspirations?”
http://www.parecon.org/writings/albert_for.htm
What about Desmond Tutu? Global reconciliation.
Mary from Waltham.
“I agree that many artifacts may have been removed from the museum early in the war, if not before, by insiders. But that’s irrelevant. The question is: should the military have ATTEMPTED to protect the museum? ”
So the military, committed to an ongoing series of battles, should have made a GESTURE? I think you confuse Waltham with Baghdad.
adamsj
“If someone came to Atlanta and completely disabled the police department here, wouldn’t that someone be responsible for the foreseeable consequences of their actions?”
Disabling the police? Do you mean the sort of thing like blocking streets (ambulances, fire and police vehicles) by lying down and locking to each other and shutting down downtowns with masses of demonstrators? Granted the police are not “completely disabled,” by civil disobedience but the principle should stand in measure, don’t you think?
Try Colby Cosh. He’s a Canadian who has a weblog. Instapundit has a link to him on the left sidebar.
I’m a bit dissapointed with the American and European Left on the Iraq issue.
I don’t expect all Leftists to support the war (although 50% of American Leftists did end up supporting it– not that NPR would ever acknowledge it– although MSNBC has).
But I am dissapointed in the kind of muddled and opportunistic logic that so stridently opposed the removal of a monster like Hussein ‘on moral grounds’.
Not to mention the patheticly manipulative ploy of blaming the U.S. for allowing looting to occur after the fall of a totalitarian regime in Iraq.
There was looting in Afghanistan too, not to metion Russia when the Soviet Empire collapsed.
Such manipulative ploys to find some kind of dark lining in the silver cloud of victory in Iraq (any dark lining, no matter how absurd) make the Left look trivial and foolish.
What concerns me even more, however, is that this segment of the anti-war Left has, in it’s myopia over Iraq, succeeded in marginalizing the Left in general in the U.S.
And this is a real tragedy. The Left has much to offer the American political debate, but having marginalized itself in Congress over Iraq and further, as it threatens to further marginalize itself by taking the low road on the post-war period in Iraq, the Left risks a great deal on matters of education, the environment, social security and health care in the U.S.A.
I hate to say it, especially since my own father was a Vietnam veteran and my adopted Uncle was killed in Vietnam, but Vietnam, folks, was a long time ago and we are no longer living in the same world.
Thats not to say that the lessons of Vietnam should be forgotten. But neither does it mean that the Vietnam paradigm should be forced over every foreign policiy issue from now to infinity either.
The Left is in a time of peril that it does not fully recognize. It must choose carefully between rigid orthodoxy on the one hand and a flexible pragmatism on the other in a post 9/11 world.
If it fails to make the right choice, so much that is precious and vital in the American Left agenda will be sidelined for decades to come.
Phil Murray
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P.S. It may seem that I must be anti-Lydon in my points about the Left and Iraq but I am not.
I am still a big fan of Chris Lydon and greatly appreciate his work on the radio and also here.
**But Chris, you also opposed the War in Kosovo to stop Milosevich.
Chris I’m sorry, but I think a lot of people of your generation are so scarred by the Vietnam experience that you lose perspective when it comes to military action.
I have my own scars from the Vietnam era, having seen my father off to War at age 9 and having lost my Uncle in that war.
But I also lived in cold War Europe in the 1960’s and saw the late stages of the rebuilding of a land liberated by war.
Sorry, but in the 21st century (and perhaps although I hope not the 22nd century) there will still be a moral and just place for war in the human experience.
It just simply ain’t all Vietnam.
Respectfully from one generation to another,
Phil Murray
Mr. Lydon,
Your essay about Art, Boston, and growing up an artist in this city is remarkable. I, too, had my formative years as an artist imprinted with the MFA’s stamp. I can remember being particularly impressed by the Copley room when I first visited the museum at age six. I think that although I was not aware of it, I adopted the MFA/Boston aesthetic from an early age. Perhaps having the MFA as my earliest artistic influence explains why I have never taken to modern gallery art. Although I can understand the innovations and genius of men like Matisse and Picasso, I do respond to their work emotionally as I do Sargent, Vermeer, or Copley.
I especially liked your comments on Copley’s Paul Revere. It takes a Bostonian, I think, to understand that painting’s particular significance to our city. Although, to me, that painting did not seem “too heroic for what Boston had become” but perhaps that was because I was viewing it in the 80’s and 90’s, when Boston (and the Museum) was experiencing something of a renaissance. I have always seen “Paul Revere” to be symbolic of Boston’s grand history.
Thank you very much for writing this. I will continue to read your blog. If you’d like to see what another born-and-bred Boston artist is doing, take a look at my web site.
Don MacDonald
Come on Chris–
Do you really think Saddam Hussein had no weapons of mass destruction in the recent past?
Do you think, perhaps, that Saddam, out of the goodness of his heart or– fear of sweet, grandfatherly Hans Blix –actually got rid of all his nerve gas, bio agents, ect??
I don’t mean this tongue in cheek, I mean this seriously.
And please don’t label me a neo-con.
And please don’t also insinuate that the Op-ed crew at should all fall into some kind of party line.
There is no party line Chris!!!
Op ed is supposed to be a market place of ideas– it should be chaos, remember?
Start worrying when the op ed crew all sings the same song. Then you should be scared.
As far as Saddam goes…
…he torched the Kuwaiti oil fields when it was obvious he had lost the war…
…he tried to assisinate George Bush Sr. as well, so…
…wouldn’t cleaning out the WMDs’ be a great act of spite for a tyrant with a proven track record of spite?
And also– given that Hussein was counting on world opinion (combined with a bloody, protracted seige of Bagdad) to save his regime.
Don’t you think this also would have been a string incentive for Hussein to roll up his WMD’s in advance of the U.S. led invasion that certainly would have uncovered them???
Worse still (and you are not alone in this Chris) if enough liberals really pursue this faulty line of reasoning: “surely there were no WMDs in Iraq!!!”…
…do you think that the common-sense majority of Americans will actually vote said liberals into power anytime in the near future?
Or is pursuing such an argument worth, say, 15 years in the political wilderness while the Republicans rule the roost until the 60’s generation dies out?????
The majority of Americans are right when they say that Saddam destroyed or exported his WMD’s on the eve of war.
This same majority will continue to vote Democrats out of power if they press the fantasy that dear old Saddam had no such weapons in the recent past.
P.P.S. ‘Liberated by war’ was not a good choice of words as a description of post World War II Europe.
But nevertheless war was the only viable moral choice in that circumstance to stop Adolph Hitler.
And the subsequent debacle of Vietnam doesn’t erase the fact that the choice for military action must be still be taken at times.
For moral and not merely geopolitical reasons.
Phil
James, who doesn’t say his last name, it would appear that Saddam did not have any weapons of mass destruction. Had you asked me before the war if he did or didn’t I would have said he probably does, but now I’d have to say it’s the other way. The problem is that our government was supposed to know, they said they knew, they asked us to believe, and they were lying.
This is really just a minor quibble with your post–I have others but honestly I can neither not articulate them or back them up–but I think the Times chose ‘inevitable’ not to absolve themselves of the responsability of asking and answering questions about the war (by all means they did this, but on the wrong subjects like how long it would last, do we have enough troops, will Saddam use his WMDs, etc–not ‘are there rally WMDs’) but to show how really inevitable the war was. Perhaps it seems lame that they would use, in age of euphamisms and political doublespeak, a word that means what it means, but when they said inevitable they were telling us, the reader, that there was no amount of journalism and no amount of protest that could stop Bush’s march (Bush, after all, called a world-wide protest of millions of people a ‘focus group’).
The idea that there is moral justification to attack and kill others or to change regimes by force to prevent a greater harm is prone to abuse. Great care and honesty should be used in deciding to pre-judge and apply prior restraint with bombs and guns, and I believe that what Chris and many others are saying is that they question whether George Bush and Tony Blair used such care and honesty with themselves and the countries they lead.
The other issue raised is related. I live part time in the United Kingdom and part time in the United States. The war in Iraq reported on British television and newspapers bears little resemblance to the war in Iraq reported in the United States. Further, the BBC has been running a series over the past few weeks called “The War We Never Saw” that contains disturbing coverage of US and British violence against civilians, wide angle shots showing a small crowd (50-60 people) in an almost empty square when the “cheering throngs” pulled down the statue of Saddam in Baghdad, and frightening stories of what is happening right now in Iraq with a war supposedly over but American soldiers bullying and harrasing Iraqs for speaking out against US/UK occupation and trying to protect themselves from unexploded cluster bombs and other munitions.
If more balanced information was provided by the US government and US news agencies I would feel more comfortable with the debate and decisions to use force to interfere with other nations. Given what I have witnessed over the past 12 months during the build up, invasion, and aftermath in Iraq I can see no other choice but to question the factual basis, accuracy and honesty of the information being reported to the American people.
“James… …it would appear that Saddam did not have any weapons of mass destruction”
That statment is so ludicrous that it makes me not respect your intellectual capacaties. Perhaps Left politics have become an orthodox religion for you– rather than a dynamic self questioning process????!!
Further, the large mass of Americans in the political middle won’t respect such wishful naivete (’Saddam had no weapons of Mass destruction in the recent past’) AND WILL VOTE THE LEFT OUT OF POWER FOR A LONG TIME TO COME OVER SUCH DELUDED NONSENSE!!
COSTING US ALL in the following areas:
1) The environment.
2) Health care.
3) Education.
4) Gay rights.
Ect, ect, ect.
STOP THE FUCKING CHILDISH NONSENSE THAT SADDAM HAD NO WMDS!!!!
IT MAKES LIBERALS LOOK LIKE IDIOTS TO THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS AND HURTS ALL OF THE ABOVE LISTED CAUSES.
OUT WITH MINDLESS LIBERAL FUNDAMENTALISM!!
IN WITH PRAGMATIC, REALITY BASED LIBERALISM, PLEASE, BEFORE IT’S TOO LATE!!!
James
Arundati Roy opposed the removal of the Taliban from power by U.S. and allied forces on ‘moral grounds’.
On ‘moral grounds’, rather than fight a war, Ms. Roy would have let the Taliban remain in power to:
1) Continue denying health care to millions of Afghan women (the Taliban forbade women from seeing male Doctors for a long list of medical problems– thereby sentencing countless 100’s of thousands more Afghan women to death by medical care exclusion).
2) Would have kept all Afghan women under the crushing weight of the Burkha for years to come.
3) Would have allowed Al Quaeda to continue to exist unmolested and at full power in Afghanistan.
Arandati Roy is a destructive idealist.
Morality without pragmatism is ultimately immoral.
Outcomes and consequences of positions of principle correctlty gauge the moral worth of such positions, not their internal ‘purity’ devoid of consequence in reality.
Arandati Roy (and many other disconnected idealists) would have let the Taliban rape Afghanistsan for another generation, rather than go to war to stop it.
Rather than ‘get dirty’ and do the imperfect thing with the far superior moral outcome:
That is– use military force to remove the Taliban, liberate Afghanistan and deliver a blow to Al Quaeda.
Arandati Roy, darling of the unrealistic faction of the Left, gets the limelight, while those who would get their hands dirty and even risk their own lives, get morally perfectionistic condemntation.
All of this in the upside-down fantasy world of Left perfectionists who yammer endlessly from their many perches in the American and British media.
As James said, essentially, elsewhere on this Blog…
…whatever happened to the REAL Left?
Phil Murray
Arundati Roy opposed the removal of the Taliban from power by U.S. and allied forces on ‘moral grounds’.
On ‘moral grounds’, rather than fight a war, Ms. Roy would have let the Taliban remain in power to:
1) Continue denying health care to millions of Afghan women (the Taliban forbade women from seeing male Doctors for a long list of medical problems– thereby sentencing countless 100’s of thousands more Afghan women to death by medical care exclusion).
2) Would have kept all Afghan women under the crushing weight of the Burkha for years to come.
3) Would have allowed Al Quaeda to continue to exist unmolested and at full power in Afghanistan.
Arandati Roy is a destructive idealist.
Morality without pragmatism is ultimately immoral.
Outcomes and consequences of positions of principle correctlty gauge the moral worth of such positions, not their internal ‘purity’ devoid of consequence in reality.
Arandati Roy (and many other disconnected idealists) would have let the Taliban rape Afghanistsan for another generation, rather than go to war to stop it.
Rather than ‘get dirty’ and do the imperfect thing with the far superior moral outcome:
That is– use military force to remove the Taliban, liberate Afghanistan and deliver a blow to Al Quaeda.
Arandati Roy, darling of the unrealistic faction of the Left, gets the limelight, while those who would get their hands dirty and even risk their own lives, get morally perfectionistic condemntation.
All of this in the upside-down fantasy world of Left perfectionists who yammer endlessly from their many perches in the American and British media.
As James said, essentially, elsewhere on this Blog…
…whatever happened to the REAL Left?
Phil Murray
Arundati Roy opposed the removal of the Taliban from power by U.S. and allied forces on ‘moral grounds’.
On ‘moral grounds’, rather than fight a war, Ms. Roy would have let the Taliban remain in power to:
1) Continue denying health care to millions of Afghan women (the Taliban forbade women from seeing male Doctors for a long list of medical problems– thereby sentencing countless 100’s of thousands more Afghan women to death by medical care exclusion).
2) Would have kept all Afghan women under the crushing weight of the Burkha for years to come.
3) Would have allowed Al Quaeda to continue to exist unmolested and at full power in Afghanistan.
Arandati Roy is a destructive idealist.
Morality without pragmatism is ultimately immoral.
Outcomes and consequences of positions of principle correctlty gauge the moral worth of such positions, not their internal ‘purity’ devoid of consequence in reality.
Arandati Roy (and many other disconnected idealists) would have let the Taliban rape Afghanistsan for another generation, rather than go to war to stop it.
Rather than ‘get dirty’ and do the imperfect thing with the far superior moral outcome:
That is– use military force to remove the Taliban, liberate Afghanistan and deliver a blow to Al Quaeda.
Arandati Roy, darling of the unrealistic faction of the Left, gets the limelight, while those who would get their hands dirty and even risk their own lives, get morally perfectionistic condemntation.
All of this in the upside-down fantasy world of Left perfectionists who yammer endlessly from their many perches in the American and British media.
As James said, essentially, elsewhere on this Blog…
…whatever happened to the REAL Left?
Phil Murray
Any Leftists or progressives who offer a real world, attainable and pragmatic perspective on the post 9/11 reality are preferable to disconnected idealists like Arunditi Roy.
Her simplistic take on the U.S.A. as essentially the evil empire pitted against the rest of the world is also destructive by any measure.
The world is much more complex than Arundati Roys’ Oz-like sense of reality.
Progressives who are willing to get their hands dirty wrestling with lifes’ real contradictions and complexities are much more likely to effect real change and bring real progress to the human condition rather than moral perfectionists like Roy.
Showcasing people engaged in a more pragmatic, hands-on progressivism will make a greater contribution, ultimately.
Phil Murray
Good mornig
I
I originally got to your new blog via BoingBoing.net, inspired by a comment about The Connection by Heath Row. This post of yours about Boston artists inspired me to go to the MFA last Thursday night.
There’s a new (sculptural/mobile) piece by Sarah Tze, the “end” of which hangs down into the entryway just in front of the admission booth. A slender thread is connected to a paper funnel dangling above a water glass like you’d get at Mary Chung’s in Central Square, and all around the glass are rose petals. If you follow the dangling thread upward, you see a magnificent contraption wound around a pillar beside the escalator. Go up the escalator, and you see that this contraption is the seaside colony of another, stuck to the far wall like a barnacle, connected to each other by some slender balsawood sticks and arcs of fishing line.
It’s just like human life: you want to have a chance at getting at least one of the flowers into the water where they can thrive, but you’re leagues away from the water and all you’ve got is thread and paperclips and a desk fan. So you start out about your business of getting from here to there, adapting and jury-rigging a solution to each new setting, getting around a corner here, bridging a gap there, and pretty soon you’ve got something that looks improbable yet functional, like a spider’s web, and you keep creeping towards the possibility of having a chance at winning, at putting yourself in a position where something might get planted and grow that might survive you and that other people might see and enjoy. More popsicle sticks! They are the stuff of hope!
“The real nightmare for the Times is the plain fact that one-way print-based corporate journalism cannot prevail in a rough-and-ready information game against the interactive, almost-free, global, democratic and instant Internet. For hungry hounds of news and for “the rising generation,” in the late Times saint James Reston’s phrase, the Times will never again be “the paper of record,” as we used to call it, or the first draft of history.”
Well, I’m not so sure about this. I first encountered a species of this kind of thought in 1991, when I was working at a local book publishing house (David Godine) as a co-op job during college. Everyone there seemed to think that the novel and publishing was dead despite the fact that more books were sold now than at any point in history, and there are more literate people now than at any point in history. Why so glum, chum?
In terms of the Internet and the blogosphere, look at exactly how “news” is covered — the starting point is almost always a news article, frequently from the NYT or CNN or the BBC. Most news and politics blogs (and talk radio shows) are *commentary,* not reporting. That’s because individual bloggers simply don’t have the resources to go out and cover a war. They gotta keep their day jobs. If the war happens to be in their backyard, what they’ll be telling you about is how it looks in their basement and what kinds of canned goods they’ve got.
In short, new forms of media don’t generally collapse or overtake old forms of media — TV did not kill radio, radio did not kill newspapers. The Internet will not kill any of the above. The only thing that may change is the physical format the above media types may come at you in — LPs, transistor radios, morphing into MP3 players and satellite data transmissions. But it’s still radio, TV, “the newspaper.” And in many cases, the physical format remains unchanged for decades and even centuries because no better solution presents itself. The best example of this phenomenon is the book. The display resolution of paper is excellent, its durability relative to cost is superior to everything else including digital media (which isn’t forever! I print out my kid’s baby photos, because I don’t think anyone will be able to read the file format I use now when he’s in college).
New media do *change* previous media, and I think you’re on to something with focusing on the op-ed page, because that’s the part of the newspaper that is most “under threat” from the blogosphere. Although TV didn’t kill radio, it did take over the role of storytelling from it — dramas etc. moved from radio to TV. The blogosphere may take over the opinion-manufacture-and-distribution-biz from newspapers. But they’re unlikely to take over “news.” Money matters in that biz, and bloggers don’t have any
Check this out.
http://jrobb.userland.com/2003/06/21.html#a3301
Right, instead of today’s “mass emotion” and “mass following”, let’s all follow Emerson’s vision and his emotions.
You write about how Emerson dislikes quotes, yet our whole article is one big quote about how much you wish you were Emerson.
Bravo, Christopher! Eloquently said! I’ve loved Emerson ever since I was a teenager. Let’s feel pride for adding our outspoken individualism to the “collective mind”!
“[F]ew men since the creation of the world live according to the dictate of Reason,” and sadly we have scant need to update that observation on the basis of evidence available in the blogosphere. Indeed, quite the opposite. Maybe there is a solution, but unless and until technology actually facilitates reasoned discourse, it’s hard to share your enthusiasm.
What a splendid post!
What are you doing here, Chris?
Go back to WBUR and take over the dis-Connection again. The Connection used to be the NY Times of talk shows, now it’s an earnest College paper: all earnestness and no wisdom and no sense of irony.
I used to love criticizing you, but then there was something worth criticizing. Dick Tracy isn’t even worth criticizing. All he deserves is what he’s getting: a turned off radio. Is it any wonder WBUR needs to schedule extra fundraisers. They don’t know it but they need you. And I need an intelligent lefty I can criticize.
Chris, we don’t need you. We already have Bill Moyers. But wait! We do need you, because it would be delightful to see the two of you go to war over who can denigrate Bush more.
You can’t skip over the Jayson Blair debacle without acknowledging the Affirmative Action problem. Doctrinaire liberals like Howell Raines take a moralistic stance, then become virtual caricatures of its worst excesses. Jayson Blair would have been uncovered and out the door a LOT sooner if he’d been white. The filtering that white liberal guilt generates in those situations has become laughable. Fairness and genuinely equal treatment should be common sense by now. Raines lost his integrity in full view of his newsroom and the general public.
Yes, that Robert Manning of Boston, a would-be Emersonian groping for the tools with which to be one. Congrats, Chris, on your new web-site and double congrats for the fine Emerson essay. If we can believe Old Waldo’s essay on Compensation we can take hope that for each of the nasty things going on today in the world, especially in Washington, there is or will be a benign opposite.
why the question mark?
Emerson’s multiculturalism was gleaned from the racist scholarship of the British Raj: he never experienced the living traditions from which the Indian thought he professed to admire emerged. In that sense, yes, he is an exemplary postmodern American, as is that Emersonian contempt for “mass culture,” which translates rather directly, I think, into a contempt for ordinary human beings … a very un-Christian failure of human solidarity. But I find very little to be proud of in acknowledging that fact. More thoughts at:
http://blogalization.org/community/comments.php?id=P623_0_1_0
One would think that over-the-top paranoia would be the sole province of those deemed either a danger to other or themselves. Alas, it is not so. In the past couple of years, this dreaded affliction has reached epidemic proportions among those I tend to think of as “the intellectually insane.”
Breslin writes, at the core of his screed:
“Because of it, I am thinking that it could be time for me to begin thinking about leaving this news business. It is not mine anymore. Let me tell you why.
“Friday, the newspapers and television reported the following matter with no anger or effort to do anything other than serve as stenographers for the government:”
One would think that a man with his experience would have a better grasp of the actual realities of the news business and the vast proliferation of outlets for all views that has exploded across the Infosphere in the last few years. One would think that, but one would be wrong.
Should the esteemed Mr. Breslin choose to make good on his threat (One that brings to mind Robert Altman’s promise to move to France a few years ago), all a thoughtful person can say in response is: “Door. Ass. Bang.”
A beautifule piece! thanks!
Along with Nehru and the other luminaries you mentioned, a certain german philosopher by the name of Nietzsche was also quite fond of Emerson’s writings in his early years!
Once again thanks for a wonderfully uplifting piece!
-A
Mr. Breslin, if this is the best you can do, it’s time for you to move on.
I have a better idea, Jimmy, let’s free yourscummy friend and let him blow up the bridge while you are on it. Just kidding.
Have a great after life and don’t forget to stop scribbling.
At first I held that the U.S. military should be allowed twelve years to account for Iraq’s WMDs, same as the UN got. Now I feel the pressing nature of the issue, and am only willing now to grant them one tenth as much time, dated from the end of the active combat phase. So, let’s see what we’ve found a year from now. Fair enough?
And if U. S. intelligence turne out to have been wrong, you still have to prove that they were lying, if you want me to believe they were lying.
And no fair moving the goalposts. The antis said that Iraq had no connection with terrorism. We found terrorists and terror training grounds in Iraq, which prompted the hasty insistence that they had nothing specifically to do with Al Qaeda. Do not back and fill, please. No one on any side of the issue should be afraid of the truth. The antis can always, if they are proved wrong on the WMD, simply go back to their 9/11 stance, and just say that oh well America deserves whatever the terrorists dish out anway.
And it is not an altogether bad thing for the terrorists and the euroweenies to have to think twice before they cross us again, n’est pas?
The Lion in Winter
Posted on http://www.BlogCritics.org by Frank Giovinazzi on June 24, 2003 10:22 AM
When I was a kid, I delivered the New York Daily News. That was 76-77, the Summer of Sam, and Jimmy Breslin was the Prince of the City.
I used to read his column before setting out on my bike with the rickety front basket. Oh, to be like him one day.
Lately, though, he’s been tired and rambly. Disappointing.
But today, the old lion summoned up his old ferocity for the cause of journalism, if only to let the over-educated cubs know he’s still prowling the veldt. Read the story!
I have two Breslin stories of my own.
One day, while working on a political campaign in 1984[?], I was delivering something to the NYDN building, and Jimmy walked up to a hot dog vendor, got a dog, bullshitted with the guy and wolfed it down like a champ. This was before he got sick and when he still looked like the tough city newsman. It was an iconic moment.
Another day, inside the NYDN building, after I walked past a giant poster of his Jimmy-ness, I approached the elevator. The doors opened. There was Jimmy, with a collection of Damon Runyan characters including a hooker, a midget and a pimp dressed like Huggy Bear.
It was as surreal a moment as the scene in Rio Bravo where John Wayne, Ricky Nelson, Dean Martin and Walter Brennan do a sing-along in the jail.
A thought-provoking piece, thank you. I am ready to see as Emersonian the proliferation of individualistic expression that blogs have permitted. I don’t think the idea of a distributed “mind” a la Google matches what Emerson described, however; in fact a distributed, populational mind is the opposite of his notion of a central, essentialist mind to which everyone have access. He’s a mainframe thinker (how’s that for an anachronism) in this population-thinking world.
“It was as surreal a moment as the scene in Rio Bravo where John Wayne, Ricky Nelson, Dean Martin and Walter Brennan do a sing-along in the jail.”
Nothing surreal about that scene, my man.
Nothing real about Jimmy B.
“News is what somebody somewhere wants to suppress. Everything else is publicity.” Lord Northcliffe.
This may be the first column by Breslin I’ve ever read, but I thought it was heroic. America will be great only so long as she is free, and we have always counted on the press to play its part in ensuring our freedom. The rise of the Internet does little to alleviate the abdication of responsibility by the corporate press, any more than the press’s abdication excuses the government’s excesses.
Christopher,
If you think that the war against Saddam and his regime was “unnecessary,” then you keep your head where the sun never shines!
I don’t care why Breslin et.al. were never hired by the Times; surely the reasons are now lost in an editorial haze?
But the issue in this particular column is horrifyingly relevant – the US government is publicly ‘disappearing’ citizens, and claiming that this is OK. Not Chile, not El Salvador, not Zimbabwe – the US. Think back – two years ago this was unimaginable. Oh, the US may have disappeared citizens – but invisibly, because it was NOT OK.
According to warblogging.com, the Padilla count (days that he’s been held in solitary without charge or meeting w/lawyers) is 444. This American Life’s coverage of the Padilla case and other erosions of our country’s founding principles is particularly pointed: “Secret Government”, 1/10/03, http://www.thislife.org .
I believe that those of us who oppose the erosion of our country’s freedoms and rights by this administration are the only patriots left. We should fly the flag and sing patriotic songs proudly this 4th, and every day. Habeas corpus and the bill of rights are not bleeding heart frills; they are the stuff of which the flag is woven.
Should we also have ‘deotherized’ the Nazis while they were still gun-toting thugs and invaders under the Third Reich?
Or was it best (from a morally pragmatic perspective) to fight them and kill them until the Third Reich collapsed?
And THEN ‘de-otherize’ the survivors (as we did under the Marshall plan)!!
What destruction, what furthering of holocaust, would we have abetted had we been so morally rigid as to ‘de-otherize’ the Nazis while they were still armed, dangerous and on the offensive?
What good is pure idealism with no traction in reality–devoid of accounting for consequences?
Let pacifistic refusal to oppose Hitlers’ Germany be the the test and proof:
Morality without pragmatism is ultimately immoral.
Phil Murray
I don’t want arrest without due process.
And I don’t want blind dismissal of the current threats to our country either.
Bravo for Breslin speaking out against summary arrests and detentions.
But he deserves a bucket of cold water dumped over his head for implying that many journalists are just Government stenographers…
…when in reality these detentions have been questioned from multitudinous journalistic quarters.
Nevertheless Breslin has an extremely important case to press in defense of our imperiled civil liberties and he and the countless other journalists who continue to raise this issue are doing us all a service.
Phil Murray
Hi,
Next time you interview your “Very good friend” Mr. Winer, maybe you could ask him why he yanked John Robb’s weblog off the air?? and why there is no info about John’s Weblog Network available anywhere. I don’t agree with John Robb and his treatment of his customers (one of whom was myself), but still its unfair and akin to censorship to basically yank someone’s weblog out of circulation just like that.
It is Vile and enethical!
This is the self proclaimed “leader” of the weblogging world? I doubt it! Unfortunately I have lost all respect for Dave Winer! (FWIW)
It’s been my belief that the blogstorm around Lott’s remarks functioned for the administration as so many recent events have functioned: as an unexpected opportunity to accomplish something that was already on their to-do list. Despite his personal failings (which cannot have bothered the southern Republican hierarchy much at all), Lott seems to have had loyalties to some of the Senate’s bipartisan traditions that, from the White House’s point of view, impeded its own agenda for that body. It seemed to me that as soon as the furor boiled up enough to begin to seep into the mainstream press, they pushed the button, and through the floor went Lott.
Well,
At least that wasn’t a total loss. Even though most of the responses are evasive, and filtered based on future percieved benefits to be recieved from selling a certain brand of blogging software (to New York Times perhaps?)
– Mark Pilgrim? was that a slip?
– “Elect a blogger”? Are you kidding me?
Blogging is not the Panacea that blogging software vendors want to make it out to be. This is turning out to be the next snake oil. Bloggers are the endall, be-all. right? not so!
It is true that the medium IS the message. And the Medium is a “diffuse” medium now. Its about vanity, its about expressing yourself and find ing out that you _can_ . And the feeling of not giving a fark.
Blogging can be throttled very quickly. Look at what Dave Winer himself did to John Robb’s blog? An Ex Employee??! How can this be reconciled with Dave’s statment that hopefully we select a “blogger” next time as president?
And what do you have to say about bloggers who are censored by their ISP? or by their Blogging Service Providers? Or even their own employers? Why is it not okay to express yourself, yet be professional in your job as well? Or to dissent and not have to worry about your blog being “be-headed” off the face of the “link-cosmos” ?
Blogging is like going home and playing SM games with your mind, and other people’s minds. Just a release! I would just as soon use Notepad and Apache to do my blogging. I don’t need all the features that RU and now everybody else and their uncle seems to want to give me. Just so they can lock me in..
The idea is to express yourself.. not to have gazillions of links, link extractors, link constipators, linke dredgers, link cosmos, link this.. link that..
An obsession with linking and blogrolling – and features that are really superflous to the core idea – is what is actually stifling the true edge of blogging, namely, indulgent, un-apologetic self expression.
This is why people like Dave Winer are dangerous. They actually promote useless features that us users really may not want. While creating built-in incompatibilities and tying users to their plat form and to their desktops. What we want is to express ourselves. How does a super duper link cosmos help me? I don’t know. All I want to do is say what I think is the right thing to say at the moment and not be persecuted for it.
And yes.. yanking a blog off the air is persecution, censorship and an injustice against the ideals of self expression, and democracy that no red blooded Blogware vendor is too ashamed to be an advocate of if it helps to fool the audience. Not to mention it being diametrically opposed to claims made by the proponents of these software packages to be promoters of “free speech” and “democracy”
Bloggers may not appear to be very active,or cohesive in their action, but one thing is for sure. It may not be as easy to fool this audience as it was to fool the Push-Media audiences of the yester years.
Our dear beloved vendors would do well to give their attitude a kick in the pants for the better and actually start practising what they preach.
Maybe they ought to start with protecting the blogging rights of the bloggers and ensuring the continuity of the thoughts that a blogger went thru the pains of creating and publishing. Then I would feel that they are qualified to be interviewed and presented to us as credible players in blogging.
P.S. Spelling mistakes, baseless allegations, and rants are all mine.
Good interview with Dave Winer. The one thing that the blogosphere is not is unselfconscious. Blogs blog more about blogging , it seems, than anything else. So with that in mind, I’m hesitant to describe the phenomenom further, other than to say that in my experience they remove the authority of traditional media while at the same time, organizing themselves around it. Traditional media becomes a supply channel and the bloggers democratically distill the information supplied and determine what is important and what isn’t.
jjdaley
listened to your conversation this morning, cut it up and blogged it here: http://www.3375537.com/
looking forward to more audio from you.
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RAHA professes — and gives its members, well wishes and compatriots — absolute freedom of the spoken and the written word. We endeavor to support independent writers from all parts of the world, while opposing any kind of censorship or suppression.
We seek your support to fight for this noble cause. You can help RAHA by contributing your work — be it poetry, fiction, non-fiction, critique, you name it — provided it is of quality and is committed to a cause.
Please announce RAHA we site to work better.
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The peace is the library
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From the Cautionary Tales Dept: The euphoria infused in these comments reminds me of the reaction of many in the mid-1980’s who came across “computer conferencing” at the other end of their dial-up modem connections. Think of The WELL, or Participate on The Source.
It was, truly, completely, something new under the Sun of free expression. In many settings, anyone could start a discussion topic, on any subject, and those who found it were welcomed to join in, thus creating a community of minds linked by interest alone.
For professionals trained in the dynamics of groups and for visionaries who were in concert with Emerson’s insight into common human experience, this was a platform for creative collaboration and expression with potentially universal reach outside the frame and control of institutional publishing and communications. Removed of process, time, space, and ultimately language constraints — even at a mere 300 baud (and this was all happening well far apart from the Internet and Usenet) — this global connectivity opened the door to advancing human understanding to a previously inaccessible level: whether among a small group developing policy; people sharing personal experience in support groups, or people with previously unconnected but shared politics coordinating global strategy.
When the Internet connected the isolated islands of commercial online services and BBS networks where conferencing was active in the mid-1990’s, the door opened large, and it remains opening, soon to get a supreme kick as AOL provides blogging to its millions of subscribers.
In a previous response here, J.A. Marrit reacts to Chris’ post this way: “…unless and until technology actually facilitates reasoned discourse, it’s hard to share your enthusiasm.”
The important goal is to determine whether and how technology might conceivably advance reason itself. As it happens, in those 15 pre-web years literally thousands of dedicated practitioners, many of whom were motivated by the very Emersonian tenets expressed here, deliberately designed their collaborative spaces to create a better common understanding for the people in their groups, whatever their size or purpose.
How have they done? I think it is fair to say modestly well. They are still at it. Still bringing groups together, creating useful collaborative spaces, many of which are now infused with blogs. But they also now work with a highly informed sense of technology’s limitations when it comes to affecting relationships among people.
For the purposes of assessing the presence of Emerson in the blogosphere, they might say, “Yes, he’s still out there, and more clearly apparant than at any time previously, and so there for anyone interested in bringing him into his or her orbit.”
Reasoned discourse, in other words, will have to speak for itself.
Chris I hope/trust you won’t be limiting yourself to just bloggers. Jon Krakauer will be doing a book reading on Thurs. July 17. I would love to hear you interview him before, during or after the event.
Chris here is a link to Jon reading at Wardsworth
http://ishop.wordsworth.com/features/events.asp?sessionID=ww211628301485421
As a liberal who supports the war in Iraq, I find the liberal focus on the WOMD question a little unnerving. I don’t know of any thinking liberal who, going into the war actually believed that the real reason we were going in was to because Saddam had WOMD and was threatening to use them. There were a lot better and more subtle reasons why it was a good idea to get rid of Saddam Hussein. First, he supported suicide bombers in Isreal. Second, we was a horrible dictator that we couldn’t ever have normal relations with, and if September 11 taught us one thing, it is that we need to over the long term, build a footing in the Arab world. We could never do it in Saudi Arabia because of the monarchy and other strong religious forces. Syria has too many legimimate gripes against Isreal to do it there. Egyptian government is our friend, but is totalitarian and corrupt. Baghdad has been the center of the Moslem intellectual world for a very long time, and if we can bring about a democracy in Iraq it will be the greatest long-term security we can build. I acknowledge that always a certain group will radicalize against change, but if you look at the poll taken a couple days ago, a majority of the citizens want the US to stay and rebuild the country. Iraq was a gamble and it may be a great failure but I respect George Bush a lot for taking the chance on a great success rather than fail conservatively.
Tim Burns
I have always been a bit at odds with Chris’ foreign policiy analysis going back for years. I am simply more hard nosed, center-Left and wary of the Far-Left foreign policy worldview.
But this has never stopped me from appreciating Lydons’ amazing talk shows and his rare ability to converse intellectually, passionately and almost musically all at once.
I like the title of this blog-section: “We desperately need more of these conversations.”
This could aptly be reapplied to Chris himself and his widely missed on-air dialogues.
There is a hunger out there in our nation for what Lydon had to offer.
And we desperately need more of his conversations.
Phil Murray
Chris – thanks for interviewing Ed. It would have taken me months to discover his different personae (if I remember my Latin). Audio adds so much to blogging. The tone, the pitch and energy in a voice tells a lot about a person. Anyone who uses the term “brain-fart” is ok in my book. I think he’s dead right about the NH primary blog project needing some “gatekeepers” or “aggregation” points.
In any case, I hope to get to meet Ed when he comes to Cambridge for the BloggerCon.
Chris – you might want to take a look at Hugh Hewitt’s website http://hughhewitt.com . He is the current leader in what I would call “Blog Assisted Talk Radio.” According to him, almost all of his show prep is done via blogs.
He and his colleagues at KRLA stream their shows http://www2.krla870.com/listen/ . Their audio quality is not as good as yours.
I’ll also thank you, Chris. In general, bloggers don’t give their readers this type of insight into who they are. I wish one day I could take Ed’s course in blogging. With only a few journalism courses, I could use some coaching.
I know where Ed is coming from when he talks about the need for filters or nodes especially when it comes to political opinions. But, I’d be careful in not destroying the end-to-end quality of the blog world as David Weinberger describes it. In his interview Dave Winer talked about news stories traditionally emanating from central sources aka the mass media to be distributed to the periphery. He sees blogging (and so do I) as information arising from the periphery, and being verified and authenticated in the periphery. Someone summed it up in this quip: “We can Fact Check Your Ass.” This is the best reponse to the trend toward consolidation in the mass media.
With filters we’re building another inflexible hierarchy, where the “important” bloggers will determine what posts are worth considering. Don’t discount those of us who live and breathe in the “wiggle room” (nod to David). BK
Thanks, Chris for Doc’s interview. His blog serves as a model, at least for me, on how to utilize this agreement/space whatever you want to call, most effectively.
I think blogs are at their weakest, and I’m guilty of this when they try to be predictive and oracular. It’s the hardest thing to pull off, but it stimulates nonetheless.
Without getting too political let me suggest that we begin to look at the US populace online as a resource for finding creative solutions for the current set of problems. Instead of waiting for the “government listening to RSS feeds” we can begin to try to reach a consensus through debate about issues regarding healthcare, resolution in Iraq, homeland security. Don’t you think that the blogosphere can work more efficiently in synthesizing information toward coming up with solutions than the government bureacracy can? Afterall, we’re not burdened by the onslaught of lobbyists, special interest groups or the need to get re-elected.
To a great extent the gov’t should expect its citizens to work to find the solutions, now that they have the tools to network. (Just as newspapers must look to the Web see what people consider newsworthy.)I don’t think it’s so important that political candidates start blogging, but that they realize that the citizenry can share in the role of leadership. We love our heirarchies, they’re simple to comprehend and diagram, but there’s no reason to believe that creative solutions should drop down from the isolated, centralized bodies that are elected every 4 years or so. The blogosphere is a mess and imperfect, but protean, which is it’s real value.
Tim you are a liberal who’s foreign policy views I respect!!
I like your realpolitik analysis despite the fact that it may ruffle some anti-imperial feathers.
And an added note: Good riddance to Uday and Qusay!!
Well deserved praise should go to the young men (and perhaps women?) who put their lives on the line today in order to take those two monsters out.
Especially my thoughts are with the young soldier who took a round in the chest (and thankfully lived) in order to help rid the world of Uday and Qusay Hussein.
This young man is a hero by any standard and deserves praise for his courage.
Phil Murray
Chris – please interview a non-blogger.
An open letter to Chris Lydon (posted here as a “comment” and over at my blog.
Yet another great interview with Doc Searls. I learned a lot from the interview even though I got to meet Doc in person at Dave’s Cafe Bombay meet-up after Jupiter’s Business Weblog event. But you have to start interviewing non-bloggers. Up to this point, you’ve been “preaching to the choir” with Winer, Cone, Searls, etc.
May I suggest that you take your BlogRadio portable studio over to the Harvard’s Kennedy School of Management and find out what their thoughts are on blogging, the web and Election 2004. A good start might be Matthew Hindman, a fellow over at KSG, who has gotten a couple of op-ed pieces in the NY Times recently. He wrote a piece entitled How the Web Will Change Campaigns <> back in Dec. 2002 in which he concluded that candidate websites would not be a deciding factor or even a significant factor in election 2004. Given that Dean now leads the Democratic pack in fund raising and his primary fundraising channel is his website, I wonder whether Mr. Hindman has modified his opinion.
If Matthew is in town, you might invite him to the next “Thurs. at Berkman meeting.” We might even try to record the meeting for BlogRadio although I realize this might be a little ambitious at this stage. But, hell, you have to try a group interview at some point, right?
Cut up and blogged Chris’s conversation with Doc Searls here: http://www.3375537.com/archives/000046.html
::we can fact check your ass at the door::
Mike,
I think Chris should keep his blogger concentration, at least until he gets a critical mass and recognition. There are over a million bloggers to choose from, and the blogger/politics connection should last up through the Democratic Convention next year when Chris should be our BlogRadio man-on-the-convention-floor, don’t you think?
Maybe ’cause I’m in awe of Emerson that I enjoyed your thoughtful audio piece, Or, I’m in awe of your ability to speak sensibly on subjects like Emerson. Either,and both,ways thanks! Al Maze.
Thanks for a wonderful interview!
Technorati is a wonderfull tool. The only sore point about it might the red color for links which makes it a bit of strain on the eyes.
Anyways, rock on david. Looking forward to more from you.
Like Sifry says, a blogger is more like a columnist than a journalist. I think that’s an important point: I’d be very reluctant to rely on blogs for my news. Opinion and buzz, yes. But not news reporting. I don’t pretend to believe that the conventional news media are objective and unbiased, but I do think that good editors and trained reporters are more likely to generate accurate reports than are bloggers. With the NY Times we at least know that there is a system and professional standards in place (which admittedly aren’t always adhered to) to present the facts as accurately as possible with a minimum of ideological spin. But bloggers have no such gatekeepers, and are free to report hearsay, or refract what they see through their ideological prisms, and call it news. And I’m not convinced that the average blog reader will be able to tell the difference.
Christopher Lydon:
I take second place to no man (or woman) in my admiration of Stephen “Steve” Kinzer . Bitter Fruit and Blood of Brothers ought to be required reading in contemporary American history courses. In addition to his new book on Iran he continues to write interesting pieces for the NYT, most recently on the lack of American interest in “foreign” literature, literature in translation. So if you want to pay attention to Kinzer and extol his fine work and career, by all means.
But the blogging (that ugly word again) angle seems to me to be oblique. “Free blogging is part of the cure,” The cure to what? The
“spinners in office and institutional media” who “have always kidded and conned us about such things as oil and empire, race and righteousness?” The current frenzied ululation emanating from the web log world seem to be taking credit for curing everything from cancer to poverty and now you are including racism and imperialism. Now great things may follow from what Glen Reynolds calls ‘the functioning anarchy” of new media but I prefer Chou Enlai’s assessment of the French Revolution, “It’s too soon to tell.”
It would be useful to know the current size of the “blogosphere” to help gauge its potential influence. My sense is that it’s a fishbowl floating in an ocean: 780,000 blogs isn’t much, especially when you consider that probably at least 70 percent of them are used to inform the world what the blogger ate for breakfast that morning.
Do we know how many “serious” issues-oriented blogs are out there? And do we know how many people are reading them? When everyone you know is blogging or reading blogs, it’s easy to be seduced into thinking that this is a big phenomenon. But that’s like thinking that the majority of Americans must be liberals, based on the fact that most of your friends and acquaintances are liberals.
There’ll probably be a serious explosion in blogging in the next few years, as user-friendly blogging tools like Typepad come on the scene. But I suspect the bulk of that explosion will resemble the CB radio craze of the late 1970s, in which millions of people bought CB radios for their cars but quickly tired of conversations that consisted of “10-4 good buddy, what’s your 20?” We might have a blogosphere of tens of millions of blogs in a few years, but if most of those blogs are simply online diaries I don’t think we’re looking at a serious agent of social change.
Fascinating. Thanks for the insights. I haven’t read Emerson in years and now feel compelled to visit him again.
Chris, is there an RSS feed hiding here somewhere ?
k
Superb interview! infuriating, uplifting and depressing in one go! (where’s my cheap canadian Prozac..).
You’ve asked some tough questions, re: why the American public is so ignorant and short sighted about their own history and the mind-bogglingly significant part they play in determining the fate of the world. Its time for American citizenry to take action.
Please enable talkback so we can rant about it some more
Thanks for bringing these gems to us!,
-A
You really think the NYTimes was for the war?? Just because two of their columnists came out in favor of it (and Friedman’s favor was ambivalent).
I read this discussion and the original article with interest. Readers wishing to read more about the impact of the net on Islam and Muslim societies might want to visit http://www.virtuallyislamic.com – which contains research information relating to this theme. There’s also material on my books Virtually Islamic and Islam in the Digital Age (out this week). I’ve added a blog this week (another drop in the ‘blogosphere’?)…
I just started out defending Clinton from the more obvious lies of the rightosphere.
I thoroughly enjoyed the Emerson and Winer audioblogs, but can’t seem to succeed in accessing any of the media.skybuilders.com pieces. The URL simply times out as unresponsive.
I thoroughly enjoyed the Emerson and Winer audioblogs, but can’t seem to succeed in accessing any of the media.skybuilders.com pieces.
These should open in QuickTime if you have it. You might have better luck if you right-click on the link (in Windows) and choose “Save Target As” to save it to your computer’s hard disk. If you’re using a Mac, control-click on the link to download to your hard disk. Then you can open it up with whatever MP3 software you use. These are big files; even with a DSL connection they can take a few minutes to download.
Well, I’ll comment. This is an intriguing take on the 9/11 events. Comparison b/w the decision making that might have gone on in a bureaucratic/lethargic/inertial system (Pentagon) with a Democratic/nimble/dynamic system (passenger network inside the plane) is _fresh_ to say the least.
The standing army vs. “drafted” army is a good argument as well. Right now it seems, American citizens enlist in the Army _not_ to go oppress other nations. They are sent out in the name of freedom, liberty, right-to-use-bleached-toilet-paper or whatever the heck is the anti-enemy-slogan du jour. Believing that they are doing a good thing. That doesn’t take away from the damage that they are a part of, creators of, and instruments of. Why/how is another blog altogether, but ignorance and complacency on part of the citizenry is reason One.
Looking at “defense” from the stop-gap, band-aid point of view (as done currently) is disasterous IMO. Defense has to be “holistic” (if you can stomach the term). It has to be Defence and not Warmaking in Peace’s clothing. Citizens mobilizing to defend the country. That would mean American citizenry getting themselves off the cruise-control, give time to the affairs of their country.
But, sadly, its not just about America anymore. America controls the fate of the world. People of America are proxy voters for the rest of us. Its a frightening prospect if you are looking from the outside in. The only hope (that at least I have) is in the libertarian tradition of the American psyche. and hopefully the citizenry will prevail in the face of absurdities ( and abberrations that have been gathering momentum in the preceding decades and seem to prevail today.
P.S. I have a category in my iPod called “Lydon’s Interviews” Not too inventive, I know, but I’m saving all these. Just in case you get yanked off the air (I’m just paranoid prolly). 1/2 hour seems so short. Maybe you should do 1 hour interviews? Would you Interview Gore V. or Chomsky? give _them_ a taste of the blogging world?
thanks!
Tariq Ali has a piece titled Operation Iranian Freedom in The Nation (along with some comments on the Kinzer book).
Final para:
You know, if you put all these interviews on a CD, I think people would buy it. Just a thought.
A great idea. Set two prices, one for listeners and another for Radio Stations that would buy the CD to replay the show.
Phil Murray
P.S. This interview/blog/whatever was scrumptious.
a superb blog, and an excellent interview, mr. lydon. hopefully, this will emerge a trend in militarized zones where civilian perspectives are needed more than ever.
Fascinating. This project is one of the most worthwhile annotations in the blogging realm and this episode really defines the whole thing for me.
I have been busily downloading these interviews and burning them either to my dreadful little MP3 player or to a CD and have so far had a few hours of pleasure on my commutes. (Parenthetically, I read with amusement on Julie’s blog about her dislike of fellow commuters wearing ear-bud headphones on the subway; hey Julie I was listening to you!)
Where guys like Winer, Searls and Sifry are interesting, they are still insiders in this whole phenomenon. Listening to Powell you hear a real gee whiz in her voice. She knows just enough to get the job done and not enough to be scared of the consequences. Catching up on her blog has been great fun and I suspect her days in a dead-end job are numbered.
Thanks Chris for this excellent project! I will be in touch with some technical ideas in the near future.
Chris, I respect your opinion, but I disagree.
I see few bloggers as individualists. There is a herd mentality. People afraid to go against the grain.
And how can you not see the elitist undercurrent that pervades the blogosphere?
Thank God as more “common folk” start blogging the din of their elistist voices will grow fainter in my ears.
just FYI – the CSS on this page no workie in Safari. None of the links activate.
Not *quite* true – the ones on the right-hand side (calendar and other links) are fine. But yes, it’s still annoying.
I’m very fond of Real Live Preacher – I’m not religious, and don’t ever think that I will be, but he writes beautifully well, and reminds me of what it’s like to be *good*. Not all religious believers are good people, by any means, and many good people are perfectly non-religious (either agnostic or atheist), but Real Live Preacher is a shining example of a good man.
And, as I mentioned before, he writes wonderfully well. The Tamales posts – http://blogs.salon.com/0001772/2003/01/22.html and http://blogs.salon.com/0001772/2003/01/26.html – are particularly wonderful.
Safari at home also seemed to crowd text. Maybe some conflict between the combined CSS line heights and older font tags?
With Mozilla on this borrowed Red Hat box the page looks & works OK — except for unreadable italic section in the Julie/Julia report.
Alas, this machine lacks a sound card, but I’ll come back to listen to the preacher from home. Love those tamales! Thanks, Chris!
This blog is reaching the kaleidoscopic dimensions that are also characteristic of Lydon’s passionate on-air explorations.
One need merely strap oneself in and enjoy the ride!
Phil Murray
[i]There is a hunger out there for what Lydon has to offer.[/i]
I’m downloading the actual interview of RLP right now, but I just wanted to comment about how great this string of “investigations” are. This is definitely something that the Blogosphere needs — a well-researched and detailed list of who is “important” in contemporary Blog-culture.
Blogs have been creating an interesting form of “community” that has been a current topic of discussion on various Blogsites. I’m thankful to have Real Live Preacher as part of my own community and I’m glad that you are posting a way to intelligently find others who may become part of my community in the future.
Very cool. Very right.
Thank you.
The bug in the anchors seems to be the line
Sorry that didn’t paste right
“the follows she way that In cook. home natural a and job, day tiresome with spirit artistic an She?”
“Robert Scheer calls it a witchhunt against the BBC.”
It’s the BBC that is engaging in witch hunts especially against the US and against the state of Israel and most importantly on any one who questions their veracity.
Let’s remember that the BBC is a state monopoly and is supported by a special tax on the British people.
I don’t believe they have served the British public well.
As I have written elsewhere:
http://forum.theatlantic.com/WebX?14@11.PEEmahJph6r.86813@.2cb4c012/779
Ah yes! A state monopoly. Firstly, it is not a monopoly. You should have been able to glean from the posting that Rupert Murdoch’s many companies, amongst others, provide much competition for the BBC.
Secondly, you imply that state funding of the BBC is a bad thing. In fact, as the current dispute between the government and the BBC demonstrates, it probably guarantees greater independence and the BBC has demonstrated that it is not afraid to criticise the government of the day, even though it is funded by them.
I think the most telling indicator is that during the Conservative government, Ministers were constantly criticising the BBC for its anti-Conservative bias and now, under the Labour government it is being attacked for its anti-Labour bias. I’d say that means they are getting it about right.
Perhaps the American media should be more skeptical of its own government instead of being afraid to publish negative stories.
Simple: we don’t live in a democracy, we live in a corporate republic. Its OK for our president to lie as long as it serves large corporations’ interests.
“Ah yes! A state monopoly. Firstly, it is not a monopoly. You should have been able to glean from the posting that Rupert Murdoch’s many companies, amongst others, provide much competition for the BBC. ”
You are wrong Steve, the BBC is a state monopoly. The British State allows it to collect a special tax from the public to support its programs. No other company has such a privilege in England.
“Secondly, you imply that state funding of the BBC is a bad thing. In fact, as the current dispute between the government and the BBC demonstrates, it probably guarantees greater independence and the BBC has demonstrated that it is not afraid to criticise the government of the day, even though it is funded by them.”
Again, it’s not the business of a government to support an ideological point of view. Whether that ideology favors or challenges the current government is irrelevant.
A media outlet can just as well distort the news in order to criticize a government as it can in order to support it. In either case distorting the news is the issue and not its criticism or non criticism of a particular governmental point of view.
The British people need to take away the special privileges afforded to its totalitarian BBC.
“I think the most telling indicator is that during the Conservative government, Ministers were constantly criticising the BBC for its anti-Conservative bias and now, under the Labour government it is being attacked for its anti-Labour bias. I’d say that means they are getting it about right.”
Again, you are just repeating a clich
<>
Did she inherit her grandfather’s animus towards Jews?
The BBC’s crooked time-line, By Andrea Levin
Aug. 18, 2003
It’s no secret the BBC has an Israel problem. News reports frequently berate Israel for failing to satisfy Palestinian demands, whether regarding military actions or curfews or prisoners, while Israel’s concerns and vulnerabilities are given scant attention, if any.
The prevalence of such one-sided treatment no doubt springs in part from fundamentally skewed views of Middle East history into which daily events are fit. One window on BBC thinking can be found on the network’s website, in its permanent background articles, posted there ostensibly to add context to daily reports.
A time-line entitled “A History of Conflict” captures the pervasive endorsement of Arab grievance and Zionist culpability. The introduction explains: “For the Palestinians the last 100 years have brought colonisation, expulsion and military occupation, followed by a long and difficult search for self-determination and for coexistence…”
Among the many tendentious assertions in that single sentence is the curious statement that Palestinians have been engaged in a “difficult search” for “coexistence” with Israel. Difficult, indeed, it has been, when classrooms are filled with maps of Palestine supplanting Israel and children are taught that it is both their right and duty to pursue that country’s annihilation, and that they should seek paradise in the honorable act of killing as many Jews as possible. Yet there is no hint in the time-line of the impact of such schooling, or of clerics exhorting the masses to murder, or of Yasir Arafat calling for Jihad.
Sections on the modern era emphasize the “discontent” of Arabs at the arrival of the Zionists. Such “Arab discontent” is cited as the cause of recurring riots in the 1920s and 1930s, without mention of Haj Amin al-Husseini and his key role in fueling propaganda and violence against the Jews. Britain’s pliant policy toward the Arabs, and indulgence of both their violence and their demands to penalize the Zionists are, unsurprisingly, omitted.
In the BBC rendition, Arabs are also indigenous to the area, in contrast to Jews. Accordingly, no reference is found to the large immigration of Arabs from across the Middle East to Palestine during the Mandate years. A description of the 1947 UN partition plan avers “the territory was plagued with chronic unrest pitting native Arabs against Jewish immigrants.”
To cast Arabs as victims in the Six Day War, all mention of the closure of the Straits of Tiran and the massing of scores of thousands of Egyptian and Syrian troops and tanks is omitted, along with the calls for the destruction of Israel. Instead, the reader is told of “mounting tensions” of unidentified origin that “culminated” in “hostilities.”
But little can top BBC’s rationalizing of Arab aggression in the Yom Kippur War: “Unable to regain the territory they had lost in 1967 by diplomatic means, Egypt and Syria launched major offensives against Israel on the Jewish festival of the Day of Atonement or Yom Kippur. The clashes are also known as the Ramadan War.”Evidently BBC considers Arab rejectionism, embodied in the “three no’s” of Khartoum issued in August 1967 – no recognition, no negotiation and no peace with Israel – a form of “diplomatic” effort.
The same disregard for historical fact is apparent in a remarkable statement under the section dealing with Israel’s 1982 invasion of Lebanon. The killing of several hundred Palestinians at the Sabra and Shatila refugee camp by Christian Phalangists is said to be “one of the worst atrocities of nearly a century of conflict in the Middle East.” The Sabra and Shatila massacre occurred just months after Hafez Assad’s slaughter of upwards of 38,000 Syrians in the city of Hama. Still more bloody, the Iran-Iraq war of the 1980s took hundreds of thousands of lives, and during these same years, two hundred thousand Kurds were annihilated by Saddam Hussein.
One wonders, what specifically BBC’s yardstick is for “worst atrocities”? The phrase is certainly not applied to the terrorist campaigns fomented and underwritten by Yasser Arafat. His seminal role in modern terrorism is hidden in language referring to involvement in “a series of attacks on Israeli and other targets.” The only such “attack” noted is that at the 1972 Olympics, which killed 11 Israeli athletes. Rather, Arafat and the Palestinians are cast generally as resistance fighters on the road to peace.
Beyond these and innumerable other serious distortions in the time-line section, there are multiple additional false and misleading articles for Web visitors. One is a “Q & A” piece about the road map. In no part of the article does the word “terror” appear to indicate the central requirement that Palestinian violence be halted. Yet the road map itself uses some form of the word “terror” 10 times, including calling on Palestinians to confiscate illegal weapons and dismantle the terrorist infrastructure.
The BBC is now caught up in a struggle with the British government concerning the network’s distortion of events in Iraq, biased attacks on British policy and its possible role in driving a British weapons expert to suicide. Perhaps the British government will now rethink the future of the propagandistic network it has created.
Andrea Levin is Executive Director of CAMERA, Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America
As a fan of Teillard and Emerson, I hope you don’t forget about the other Jesuit media theorist, Walter Ong, who died quite recently; he was a contemporary and colleague of Marshall McLuhan who said “The writer’s audience is always a fiction”, and wrote ‘Orality and Literacy: The Technologizing of the Word’.
I have created a tribute weblog with some quotes and links, and I’m hoping anyone with comments, and quotes might post them.
walterong.jonathandruy.com
The specifics of the Kelly affair are out of my reach and I can’t fully judge it.
I do think that the BBC has unfairly maligned Tony Blair over and over again.
Was the BBC right in the case of Kelly? Perhaps.
But the BBC has shown an obsessively wrong-headed bias against Tony Blair and also the Iraq war effort.
In so doing they look ridiculous– the BBC has spent far more time attacking Blair and the Iraq war than it has every spent attacking Saddam Hussein for his monstrous rule in Iraq.
The far-Left, and the BBC as well, have lost all perspective and proportion on the Iraq issue.
Too often, people like Blair are vilified, and yet the BBC would seem content to let Saddam Hussein keep mass-murdering and mass-torturing for years to come if this preserved the ‘peace’.
In my view this is topsy-turvey Leftism.
My version of Leftism is glad to see the US and British Armies dismantling Husseins despicable regime once and for all.
George Bush may be after the oil.
But let him have his oil if it means liberating 25 million people and establishing a large foothold of Democracy in the Arab world!!
In the old days (World War II) the Left had the Realpolitick (pragmatic savvy) to side with the American Right in going after the fascists.
Similar common cause should have been found today in going after Saddam Hussein and his monstrous Baath party.
Phil Murray
P.S. I feel compassion for the folks at CAMERA but I don’t completely agree with them.
My pro-Iraq War stance is different from theirs (although I abhor the suicide bombing, I also abhor Sharons’ excesses).
Hamas is a sick and evil organization as well and it really doesn’t bug me that much when Hamas leaders are killed (although there needs to be an equitable settlement with the Palestian people and Jewish settlements are going to have to go in all fairness).
Ooops, I inadvertently spliced two unrelated sentences together.
I meant to say, I may be pro-Iraq war, but I differ with CAMERA in some ways on Israel/Palestine.
I am not rabidly pro-palistinian and I am staunchly in favor of Israels right to exist.
But land must be traded for peace and that position is as much pro-Israeli as much as it is pro-Palestinian.
WBUR does seems sometimes to a bit partisan on the issue, but I believe in a point of view that sees the suffering on both sides, **while condeming terrorism utterly.
Phil Murray
I don’t know if my download failed in some way or if Mr. Lydon had some technical problems, but the audio quality of this interview seems much lower than his others. Has anybody else noticed this? I’m thinking I should re-download the mp3 and try again.
cory
Thank you radioland for helping me through a tough day of acute Julie-withdrawal. Mimi
I stay at home every day and long for communication with some external source of interesting and informative ideas. I recently met an Iranian accountant, trained in the US, who went back to work in the Iranian Medical System. He came back to the US in rejection of the on-the-job treatment by religious managers in the system. His reaction is exactly in tune with this BLOG’s conclusions. Now, this same man is running a small delicatessen in my neigborhood. All his training is wasted. Except, he knows how to make accurate change, and a damned good sandwich. Now I understant why. Strange concantenation of events.
Man I wish someone would walk into Camera’s office and start shooting. These scumbags jsut can’t deal with the fact that they are on the LOSING team – Andrea WAKE UP -
Robert Fisk (aka Baghdad Bob II, since his reports, like the statements made by the former Iraqi information minister, routinely stray from the truth) is one of the most biased journalists around. Watch groups, too many to mention, have exposed the lies and glaring distortions found in his coverage of the Middle East. What makes him any more credible now?
You obviously admire him, Chris, but the “brave eye” you praise is a jaundiced one.
To the previous commenter:
Can’t handle the truth, can you?
I try to respect reports from both sides however biased, and try to come to conclusions based on a juxtapostion of evidence between both sides.
Trying to be as objective as possible, Fisk and Gilligan were two of the most irresponsbile reporters covering the Iraq war. I would say comparable to Geraldo and Bill O’Reily on the right.
That Fisk said the war was based on lies does not suprise me. What I would like to ask him, is if his reports could hold up to the same kind of scrutiny the BBC is facing over the “sexed up” dossier claims.
I think Fisk has been as loose with the facts, if not moreso than Gilligan, and for him to say the war was based on lies is almost laughable to be honest. Sorry for the negative comments, but have to say it like it is.
I ask the first two commenters if they would care to address a specific statement from the Fisk audio clip, or if they prefer only to make vague and unsubstantiated allegations that Fisk is not credible?
I myself have never traveled outside the United States, while Fisk has visited various parts of the Middle East, and has lived in Lebanon for a number of years. I am therefore in no position to personally verify or dispute any claim that Fisk might make, nor any counterclaim made by a critic.
Again I ask the first two commenters: have they ever visited the Middle East? Can they personally dispute any of Fisk’s claims, or do they also rely on second-hand information? And can they tell me which of Fisk’s critics have first-hand experience of the Middle East, and which are themselves only hearing about it second-hand?
Right on Chris Williams! Fisk is the most experienced reporter in the Middle East. His book ,”Pity the Nation: The Abduction of Lebanon should be required reading for the first two comentators who obviously don’t have a clue. Someone should write a book “Pity the Nation: The Abduction of US Foreign Policy by the neocon forces of evil in the Pentagon.” In the meantime the US taxpay is being ripped off in the most vicious way.
Here’s one from the web: Via Aziz Poonwalla comes this hard-to-verify but certainly disturbing tale from the cousin of an Iraqi engineer:
As May was drawing to a close, his manager told him that someone from the CPA wanted the company to estimate the building costs of replacing the New Diyala Bridge on the South East end of Baghdad. He got his team together, they went out and assessed the damage, decided it wasn’t too extensive, but it would be costly. They did the necessary tests and analyses (mumblings about soil composition and water depth, expansion joints and girders) and came up with a number they tentatively put forward- $300,000. This included new plans and designs, raw materials (quite cheap in Iraq), labor, contractors, travel expenses, etc.
Let’s pretend my cousin is a dolt. Let’s pretend he hasn’t been working with bridges for over 17 years. Let’s pretend he didn’t work on replacing at least 20 of the 133 bridges damaged during the first Gulf War. Let’s pretend he’s wrong and the cost of rebuilding this bridge is four times the number they estimated- let’s pretend it will actually cost $1,200,000. Let’s just use our imagination.
A week later, the New Diyala Bridge contract was given to an American company. This particular company estimated the cost of rebuilding the bridge would be around- brace yourselves- $50,000,000 !!
RIGHT ON indeed, these Fisk bashers sure are quick! Its almost as if they are monitoring Chris’s site. Fisk is one of the only reporters who is wiling to take on the other occupying power in the middle east – the one most Fisk critics would rather not have us even mention!
Thank you chris for this! And Thank you Mr. Fisk for doing what you do!
It is funny that neither one of our two instanaysayers even bother to back up a single one of their foul smelling gripes.
to pcm
the truth is out there .. er if you can get past the check points, or dodge the IDF bullets, and the bulldozers, and the tanks, and the missles that might decapitate you on accident – but hey – like I said the truth IS OUT THERE
From the MP3 transcript:
“This so called september dossier which Blair continues to pathetically defend was mendacious… They could not even be historically accurate about things that happened 10 years earlier, so how can we trust them on the WMD account.” – Robert Fisk
Well I would like to hold Robert Fisk to the same standard of factual responsibility. I will give you 5 blatant errors he has reported recently, if he will agree to address them.
I am not out to slander him, he should just be as responsible with the facts when he accuses others of being “mendacious”.
Cog, I certainly agree with your wish to hold Fisk responsible for his reporting. That’s fair and just. I hope you’ll consider sharing his reporting errors with us, as well as the Foreign Desk at the Independent: foreigneditor@independent.co.uk
If Fisk doesn’t respond then perhaps someone else can.
And in order to make clear what “standard of factual responsibility” you wish to hold Fisk to, here is the complete passage from which you quoted him.
CHRIS LYDON: Robert Fisk, we’re very eager to get an independent view of this showdown between the BBC and Tony Blair, on sexed-up intelligence, on Armageddon weapons, on sexed-up news reporting. What does it look like to you?
ROBERT FISK: Well, from where I am, which is Beirut, which is in the Middle East, which isn’t that far from Baghdad, it looks like a distraction. Um, you know, I remember when the first so-called “dossier” — how the British love the word “dossier” — came out, last September, I thought to myself when I read it, this is a very, very odd document. It was supposedly 50 pages, but only fifteen, one-five, of those pages dealt with weapons of mass destruction. And even then they were dotted with words like “may have,” “could have,” “would have.” The rest of the pages were about Saddam Hussein’s history, the history of Iraq, the history of the British intelligence services, and indeed the history, which is verifiable and correct, of Saddam’s human rights abuses. Even in this element this so-called “September dossier,” which Blair continues to pathetically defend, was mendacious. For example, in one extract it says that, um, in the city of Basra, in the spring of 1991, uh, Shiite Muslims of Iraq staged riots — I use the word “riots,” that’s what they called them — against the Saddam regime, and were ruthless–ruthlessly repressed, with many thousands of dead. Now, the repression and the dead are correct. What the British left out was, this–these weren’t riots, this was a rebellion encouraged by President George Bush Senior and by the British government. But they deleted that, even–they couldn’t even be accurate and historically honest about events that had occurred more than ten years before. So how could we trust them on the weapons of mass destruction? This was the big issue when the dossier came out.
To LninYo:
You’re right there buddy! This is exactly what we did with Germany and Japan – Go to war so we can bilk their countries out of every cent. We spent countless lives so we could destroy those stupid countries just so we could give our buddies some cush jobs for too much money.
I don’t know who you think is running this country but just to be sure you’re up to date… it is no longer Bill Clinton. Most of us these days don’t consider spending the lives of our brothers and fathers and mothers and sisters for wealthy rebuilding contracts and to indicate that all of the people required to sign on within Washington would do so is just silly. I could imagine a whacko or two but all of them? I can say this, while folks like you make these sorts of claims, I’m glad we have leadership who will continue to do what is right and cautious for us. They’re not perfect by any stretch but they don’t spend our troops’ lives for contracts.
I am Liberal who supports the War in Iraq, but I do respect some of the work of Robert Fiske.
The free world needs it’s journalistic muckrakers and I don’t think they always have to be right at the level of their opinions.
But I think that Thomas Friedman of the New York Times is much closer to the truth on Iraq than Friedman.
Oops! Mistyped–
I meant to say:
“But I think that Thomas Friedman of the New York Times is much closer to the truth on Iraq than Fisk.”
If you look at the mutual eye contact in the picture that goes with this topic, you can see how engaging Chris Lydon is and why he consistently finds the passions in his guests and draws them out.
Chris isn’t merely about the presentation of knowledge, he always communicates the love and excitement for the pursuit of knowledge as well.
Intellectualism tends to get stereotyped in the U.S.A. as dry and overly heady.
But Lydon embodies the passionate hunger of the intellect and in so doing, ignites both guest and audience.
Please try to interview Matthew Parris columnist and former sketchwriter for the Times. He’s a conservative who opposed the war in Iraq on grounds of national interest.
He also writes regularly for the Spectator. His take is almost always refreshing, and his analysis of Alastair Campbell is trenchant.
His best stuff is for the Times and not available on-line anymore, but anyone with access to Lexis should be able to get it.
Christopher, that you would dishonestly give Fisk a credibility undeserved by his long record of proven lies, is one more reason why I’m thankful that you are no longer on the radio.
broader conversation on kos? right…
Newton astounds me in what he could see from where he was sitting in medieval times.
I have known a lot of bright people, but none with a brilliance so shattering of paradigms as Isaac Newton.
What’s the fuss?
Having listened to Fisk just now, and having been an occassional reader of his stuff, I’m wondering just what the heck is so objectionable – here, in the context of this comments box regarding this interview?
I do wish, Chris, that you had been a little tougher on the man. The questions that were begging to be asked – well, now that the Americans and the British are in this rat’s nest – what’s worse? – walking away, sticking it out, or is there a third option? – you failed to ask. Why is building a democracy in Iraq such a self-evident impossibilty? Can you, Fisk, draw any parallel between this ‘occupation’ – its dangers, its ill-conceived nature -whatever – and your time spent in Ulster? Do you think Bush and Blair visiting Northern Ireland together -in what? April? in the days leading up to the invasion of Iraq? – might not have had something to do with Anglo-American foreknowledge of the prospects of a long, drawn out urban guerrila war? And so on…
And why – when you have a reporter on the line, who is ‘there’, or close by, in the Middle East, whose main strength is in giving a reader a sense of the scene, in providing details, why would you not at least try to get some sense of what things are like in Iraq at the present time. For Iraqi shopkeepers Coalition troops. Bagdhad taxi drivers. Why the focus on the ’sexed up’ dossier? which is a distraction, and something he’s not on top of anyway.
Although I’m probably in complete disagreement with any of the other critics in this box regarding Fisk’s value as a reporter and journalist, I did find this interview to be a bit of a puff piece.
Chris, you’re onto a good thing here. But I truly wish you’d stop trying to make friends with your subjects and begin conducting interviews. This isn’t public radio where everyone needs to be – to use a Fiskism – effete.
It’s BlogWorld.
I agree with bmo on that one. less chummy, more crummy (or whatever). hit’em hard. while you got people’s attention.
Tom: despite what Fox News would tell you, “marshall” plan wasn’t to introduce democracies into those two countries. They were proto empires that needed to be neutralized. You had already annihiliated the two countries’ civilians and topped it up with criminal Noo-Kew-Luhr bombings which was just to show the world you were ready to use those monstrous weapons (of mass destrucion?). That was the least the “allied” criminals could do to silence their own conscience for murdering millions of civilians. Maybe you have forgotton the firebombings of dresden, and japanese cities too.. how convenient.
The “liberators” are in Iraq to do one thing. Rape a nation (that they incidentally created during another imperial slaughter of the people) and rob (ROB yes.. Loot) its oil resources. To short circuit the process and be the sellers and buyerers of the oil. This is not a rant against american troops (who by no means are doing a noble thing, but they are just as much a victim of this junta as are the Iraqi people).
The objective is to move the money around from one part of the western economy to the other and in the process get the oil. All the Iraqi’s are gonna be left with, aside from a big dung-bag, would be the “records” of how the money was spent. Without of course, anything to show for it. It all goes up in smoke. Just like it does in Venezuela, Saudi Arabia, Nigeria.. pick any oil-producing country. If it doesn’t have West’s cronies (numbering only in thousands – but criminal and ruthless to the core) running the show, they are labelled thugs and “un-democratic” (by even what you would call “leftist” media such as new-york-times) . Maybe the world “chavez” rings a bell? Would “Mossadegh” or “Allende” be too taxing right at this moment?
The only problem is that Iraqis have refused (so far) to roll over and play dead (pardon the pun). First you gotta have an environment suitable for looting and plunder. Unfortunately, the current regime in D.C. is ideologically and intellectually incapable of doing that. They like the _idea_ of looting, but they don’t know how to actually do it. For this they must turn to the master criminals for the past 300 years. The British.
Irony of ironies.. every empire turns its oppression to its own “people” sooner or later. If you think “PATRIOT” act may be a teeny bit stepping on your rights (that you probably have already given up in an attempt to be secure from your own Paranoia) Wait till the “PATRIOT FOR DUMMIES” and “COMPLETE IDIOTS ACT FOR PATRIOTICITY” shows up in yer face. And all _you_ wanted was a little security.
The lies that you tell yourself will not exonerate you from your duties as a citizen. You will be judged by what you did or did not do as a citizen of not a totally firked democracy. Where you could have gained control thru the outlets available but you didn’t and instead chose to let vultures feed you with carrion that you willingly took for mannah. Your excuses to your descendants will sound as hollow as the excuses of the german civilians that implicitly supported the genocide and the holocaust. Last time there were actual camps.. this time there are “virutal death camps” spreading across whole nations.. and what do you have to say in your defense? you don’t even know that you are part of the killings.
stay tuned for turbulence as Mr. “President” runs the country into the ground once again.. D’OH!!!!
P.S. Your mention of “your” “Leadership” is so familiar. Maybe it is North Korea? or the old Stalinists that you sounded like? (or perhaps even Nazi’s?) This unfortunate, unelected, incompetent “leadership” that you crow about should provide a lot of entertainment (grotesque at best) for generations to come, not only here at home for that matter. To be the international laughing stock is another thing altogether, especially when you happen to be the most violent and most powerful country on the bloody planet (again.. no pun intended). I suppose guns can not bring you respect just like they couldn’t bring respect to Saddam and his cronies.
“The ‘Liberators’ are in Iraq to do only one thing. Rape a nation…”
This kind of delusional far-Left nonsense is why the Democrats will likely not be in power for a long time to come.
In the meantime, I’m hoping for a wiser and more pragmatic Left to rise from the ashes of the old.
Phil Murray
“The ‘Liberators’ are in Iraq to do only one thing. Rape a nation…”
This kind of delusional far-Left nonsense is why the Democrats will likely not be in power for a long time to come.
In the meantime, I’m hoping for a wiser and more pragmatic Left to rise from the ashes of the old.
Phil Murray
“The ‘Liberators’ are in Iraq to do only one thing. Rape a nation…”
This kind of delusional far-Left nonsense is why the Democrats will likely not be in power for a long time to come.
In the meantime, I’m hoping for a wiser and more pragmatic Left to rise from the ashes of the old.
Phil Murray
“The ‘Liberators’ are in Iraq to do only one thing. Rape a nation…”
This kind of delusional far-Left nonsense is why the Democrats will likely not be in power for a long time to come.
In the meantime, I’m hoping for a wiser and more pragmatic Left to rise from the ashes of the old.
Phil Murray
!!***Sorry,
That triple post was not intentional.
–Logging on from a beat-up-old laptop at work.
Phil Murray
Webmaster,
Please delete all but one copy of my last post (sorry).
Phil Murray
Lol, we are there to rape Iraq and rob its natural resources, and conservatives are fascist [love the Nazi germany reference].
Two of the most ridiculous and unfounded arguments, much in the vain of Robert Fisk’s reporting. Bravo.
Importing gas to help with the fuel crisis, trying to fast track an Iraqi police/militia force that respects human rights, trying to instill a representative democracy…. yes, these are things that didn’t work in Nazi Germany LninYo.
Talk about night and day, following up Robert Fisk with Harold Bloom.
No you’re there to give them democracy because they are just all loin-cloth wearing, beard-growing, kinda funny smelling, desert-iguana huntin know nothing lesser people (almost like your pets that you want to shave and put clothes on to make’m look like you) that YOU, in all YOUR wisdom, have to go and fuck-in-the-internal-affaires-with. Because its your G*D given right.. RIGHT?
Took you 20 years to give them the Saddam govt. that murdered and chemical bombed their asses. Lets see how long it takes for you to teach them human rights.. Now THAT is hilarious. Starting a Concentration Camp in the Bay of americans in Cuba and going round the world telling others about human rights _that_ is laughable.
Maybe you ought to check out the Amnesty International website and do a search on your favorite Fascist state. I’m sure you’ll find plenty of baseless leftist propaganda which you cal laugh at to your hearts content.
Not nearly as ridiculous as believing USA is there for Noble purposes. And please don’t invvoke the troops. You have blackmailed America enough dragging the deadbodies of kids that the fascists-in-conservativ’s clothing don’t have the NUTS enough to emulate and go fight and die in unkown lands. Most of you DOOM playin’ generals rather do it from behind the warm glow of Fox News. And leave the ugly business of dying (for what you are duped into believing as a Noble cause) to someone else.
“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win!”
step 3 anyone? Now it might be helpful to actually provide counter arguments as opposed to just kind-heartedly pointing to the apparent comedic potentials of my comments Cog!
Gettin close to step 4. Ciao!
“Bmo” said: “Chris, I wish you would have been a little tougher on the man[i.e.Fisk].”
Of course, Chris challenging incredulous nonsense coming from a Leftie in the same way he would challenge incredulous nonsense coming from a conservative; would be the intellectually honest thing to do. But we are talking about Chris Lydon after all. His idea of intellectual honesty is to claim that a position on how much Public radio revenue he is “entitled” to, has “nothing at all to do with money”.
The egomanical “sage” of New Haven states that Don DeLillo wouldn’t have been posssible but for Emerson. Yeah right, just like Chris’ claim of entitlement to Public radio funds, had “nothing at all to do with money”.
That you have no outrage for the nations that led the military support for Saddam pre-GW1 [Russia, China, France] or post-GW1 [(allegedly) Russia, Jordan, Germany, France)] just demonstrates your bias.
Bias much in the vain of an average Robert Fisk report.
Audio CD would be a great idea if you can get the original source material and don’t have to convert the MP3s to CDDA.
But do keep in mind that the set so far is about 5 hours and an audio CD only holds an hour of sound. So now you’re talking about a 5-CD set.
Ignore that last post. I meant to reply to Dave Winer’s post elsewhere that referred to this post and I wasn’t paying attention. Just got a new aggregator and can’t do a thing with it.
–Hal
(1) The Pentagon is not responsible for defending the country from internal attacks. And it’s a good thing too, having to keep the FBI on the ‘right side’ of the line between effectivness and paranoid/oppression is hard enough.
(2) A second point on the Pentagon not being able to defend the Pentagon: remember the Vincennes? Or, how many harmless airliners are you willing to shoot down to get all of the hijacked airlines? To get 90% of the hijacked airliners? 50%? (Lucky for us we don’t have that many WTC’s and Pentagons to ram.)
This audioblogging thing is all very well, but .20 gigas? And at least 70 percent of spoken discourse is “um,” “er,” “ah,” [cough], “like,” and “y’know.” Not to mention ambient noise. You must be rolling in bandwidth up there at the Crimson Boosters Club! Transcripts? A vellum binding would give it that real feel of an historical document!
I can hear only Christopher’s comments/questions, not Joi’s side of the interview.
Jake Walker
Christopher can only hear himself pontificate as well.
It seems that Christopher is on the right channel, and Joi is on the right. If you are listening in mono I am not sure what will happen…
I heard part one and two with no problems. Very interesting. Thanks. Hope you will include it on the list of interviews and in the CD set or whatever is made possible (even if it ends up being a typed transcript!) Five hours is too long for a single download but I will download it if no alternative is made possible. Thanks again. Much appreciated.
What the hell is a “blog zeitgeist”?!?!? More vacuous attempts at profoundity from our resident psuedo-”intellectual”.
Yeah, Chris, please don’t use any more words that people might have learned in college or from old issues of Spy magazine.
Huh, get a dictionary or go read the funny papers.
That Cog doesn’t know the difference between ‘vein’ and ‘vain’ should tell us a lot about his credibility as a critic of foreign reportage.
the BBC has shown an obsessively wrong-headed bias against Tony Blair and also the Iraq war effort.
Yeah, that must be why polls of the British public suggested that most people thought the BBC was too pro-war.
I think we know who the real obsessives are here: the people who refuse to admit that there’s a stink whenever Israel farts.
Who cares what Instacracker says, anyway?
Yeah, it’s so easy to sling barbs from behind a computer screen, ain’t it?
This is OT but I just wanted to say that I downloaded the complete collected interviews yesterday, and made a CD of them that I have been listening to in my car.
Wow.
The best thing about the interviews is that they fire off so many of my neurons listening to them. It’s the opposite of the sedating, numbing, “receive only” character of a lot of media. I’ve been blogging a few of the ideas that occured to me while listening.
oops. For some reason the end of the post got cut off.
I’ve been blogging a few of the ideas that occured to me while listening. I’m not sure you can post embedded URLs in these comments, so here is the link: http://www.cadence90.com/blogs/2003_09_01_nixon_archives.html#106351387257846795
I found this downright inspirational! Thanks to both interviewer and interviewee — as Joi says, I haven’t been this excited since I first found the Internet…
The interviews are fantastic but Mr. Lydon needs someone to help him work out the kinks in his setup. The sound quality in a couple of his inteviews has made them almost unlistenable to me. I don’t know enough about recording and encoding to make any suggestions, but I hope somebody has something to offer.
I hate to criticise a gift, but I have a feeling Mr. Lydon won’t take offense.
Joi’s passion for the communciation aspect of technology has bridged a lot of people together who normally might not of been so inclined before. Joi’s passion in itself is incredible to watch. And just what does a girl have to do to get an interview with the illustrious Lyndon? hmmm?
I was just corresponding with Enoch Choi over at Medmusings about listening to the collected interviews. We both agreed that we loved the Real Live Preacher interview.
What occurred to me while I was commenting on Enoch’s post was just how much you have improved your grasp and confidence in the technical arena. Back when you and Mary were doing the Connection, I never really felt that your technology shows were among your best, because I thought you weren’t trusting your gut to stand up to the guest. If someone called in and claimed that Muslims bombed themselves in the marketplace, then you’d call them on it. But I found that a lot of the technical guests got away with grandstanding, misattribution, and lazy utopian blather (Okay, I admit it, I’m thinking of Richard Stallman, who forced every caller to call Linux GnuLinux, which is about as self-aggrandizing as Henry Ford making people call the Space Shuttle the FordShuttle because they both have combustion engines and come in only one color scheme).
This interview with Sifry is perfect proof of how far you’ve come both in understanding the technical issues and in developing your gut instinct on what kinds of questions to go after in the technical arena. It’s a big achievement to take in and be able to use such a large new area of foreign knowledge; let’s face it, most people just stick to what they started out knowing and are satisfied not to go further than that. It’s admirable to see anybody working at a field of knowledge they didn’t hail from and not giving up.
Why isn’t anyone interviewing Dennis Kucinich? I listnend to his comments in one of the disscussions involving all the candidates and he seemed to be the only one speaking for the real working Americans. It seems the whole blogging world is gushing over Howard Dean while the other candidates are just being ignored. How is this different from CNN ignoring candidates they don’t like? they have their Pets and you have yours. The thing that seems to make Dean so special is that he was able to get people to pay. But the “new new media” needs to give a fair chance to all folks. Not the ones they like.
Just a little mirror for all the Blogging-pom-pom shakers. Take a look in the mirror. and try to be fair and balanced. (not a’la the “Lying Liars”, but for real, for a change).
Maybe you should try to get Dennis Kucinich in here yer blog pages Chris?
You didn’t interview Kos or Political Wire on this story? They are by far the best political web sites in blog land.
I found Elaine Scarry’s contrast between the action oriented response of the passengers on the plane headed for the Pentagon versus the DoD’s lack of response in defending the Pentagon itself interesting, although I assume Ms. Scarry is a philosopher rather than a military decision maker. SUre, today, any stray plane with the characteristics she defines would be shot down, but on 9/10/01 our world was different.
I was more interested in Elaine Scarry’s comments on the hypocrisy of US insistence that other countries be invaded because they possess Weapons of Mass Distruction while the US undoubtedly possess the world’s largest collection of WMDs. We see now, that no WMDs have been found, that other reasons for the invasion of Iraq are being invented. Don’t get me wrong: Sadam was a bad guy and deserved to be ousted, but, let’s be truthful about why we do things.
I’d say Krugman’s got it right about blogs and journalsim. With few exceptions, blogs are more like op-ed pieces than news reporting. Opinion is one of the least valuable services of journalism; straight news reporting and analysis are more useful. I’d rather filter the news through my own value system than to receive it pre-filtered by others’. When I’m looking for news or analysis, does it make more sense for me to get it from a part-time blogger who’s relying on second- or third- or fourth-hand information and has had at most a couple of hours’ free time to do some research, or from a fulltime, paid and trained journalist who has direct access to the people and places that are making the news? And I don’t mean to naively imply that mainstream news reporting is “objective” or “impartial,” I know it’s not, but in a mainstream news organization there’s usually at least an attempt to make it so (except by Fox, CNN, and the other razzle-dazzlers out there).
But anyway, I’m really glad you posted this interview, as Krugman is in fact the only op-ed columnist I ever bother reading; he’s mostly brilliant.
Well, relying on a typo or a misquote is often the proof for a conspiracy isnt it?
It is weird that you focus on a typo I made on a messageboard, while ignoring factual errors in Fisk columns that have made him a laughingstock among credible journalists.
“Fisking” someone is now synonymous with fact checking an error filled report.
Great interview. Between the two of you, Gleick and Lydon, you bring out the enormous difference between Newton’s time and ours–and it all happened so gradually, almost imperceptibly over the intervening years. If one object of the interview is that the listener should go out and get the book, that will happen this afternoon out here! Looking forward to reading it, and may even be driven back to re-reading “Chaos,” Jim Gleick’s wonderful earlier book.
christopher,
seconding lnin yo’s comment, i’d love to be able to listen to you interview dennis kucinich… i hope you will consider it. thanks! love your site…
Little Roman History Lesson.
Hadrian’s combat service was in the 1st and 2nd Dacian Wars, North of the Danube.
Hadrian engineered his succession to the purple after Trajan’s death, ultimately having to execute a good number of Trajan’s generals to make it stick. He then spent a very high percentage of his reign traveling amongst the army, constantly reviewing them.
Notice that Hadrian did not abandon Dacia. In fact, he campaigned against the Sarmatians there as Emperor.
Hadrian had no sympathy for the problems of the Jews, and brutally suppressed the revolt of Bar-Kochba. The diaspora pretty much dates to this period.
The provinces that Hadrian abandoned were largely reoccupied by the Emperor Septimus Severus.
And finally, don’t get your history from a NOVEL.
I love Clark’s great insight. He says “the killing needs to stop” with respect to the Israeli/Arab terrorist conflict. No kidding?!? Gee, if I had thought of that I’d be running for President. Too bad I’m not 35 yet.
Seriously, Clark is a policy lightweight. And even if you don’t agree, he is a tool/puppet for Bill and Hillary Clinton, being “one of the rising stars of the Democratic party.” Funny, I didn’t know that rising stars could have no political experience and have just joined the party within the last few weeks. Indeed.
This guy is a joke. If the Democratic Party wants a credible military man who brings experience and composure to the table, they should select John Kerry over Clark.
I loved “Memoirs of Hadrian”, but if Calrk shares Hadrian’s taste for young male lovers he’s gonna lose.
More seriously, I don’t see that Mesopotamia = Overstretch for Hadrain means that Mesopotamia = Overstretch for Bush. We may have some problems with overstretch right now, but the way to handle them, in my opinion, is to pull troops out of Germany, Turkey, maybe even S Korea, not abandon Iraq. The one thing Bush understood and has done right in the war on terror is take the war into the Middle East.
Sorry, but I can’t buy the image of Wesley Clark the warrior-sage. His actions in Bosnia were haphazard at best; his arrogance strained relations with our allies; he was relieved of duty early; his troops were contemptuous of him; and he was deliberately snubbed by his superiors. Hugh Shelton specifically accused him of problems of character. Clark is in no sense a Hadrian for our day, but rather an opportunist saying whatever he needs to say to please the people in power at the time.
“We’d all have been more suspicious of the Bush and Blair neo-imperial fantasists, spinning their Anglo-American self-esteem into a Middle Eastern quagmire, . . .”
Puhleeze. Do you really talk like this in real life? Are you at all aware that the vast majority of the USA doesn’t? Just don’t be surprised when Howard Dean gets the same % of the vote as McGovern . . .
I was frustrated by Dave’s answer to the “what is metadata, why is it important?” question, because he jumped right to RSS. He missed an opportunity to describe all the metadata in the world that we’re already familiar with, but don’t call “metadata”. In response, I wrote an essay about it:
http://www.nedbatchelder.com/blog/200309.html#e20030928T210943
Try as one may to ascribe depth and meaning to Clark’s campaign statements, that dog just don’t hunt. Clark was brought in to the race by the Democrat status-quo (i.e. Bill Clinton and Terry McAuliffe) for one reason only: to blunt the Howard Dean campaign. The term “sock puppet” has been used; I think “ventriloquist’s dummy” might be closer to the truth.
I don’t have a strong opinion about Wesley Clark. I like Chris’ analysis, regardless of the reality of Hadrian, the ideas quoted in his commentary are ones that I think are substantial. I read the comment from Hugh Shelton and want to warn everyone that I think it obvious from his response that he has an axe to grind and that his disparagement was dishonorable.
He made a bad accusation about a fellow soldier’s character as inuendo, without justification or details that can be evaluated. If one are not able to complete such an accusation, then people of integrity leave it out. It’s hard to imagine Clark showing worse character than that.
tqii
I would agree with “eric”’s comments. Additionally, I would note that Hadrian — by most estimates, contemporary and modern, the worst of the “good emperors” — was not the “symbolic” leader of the world. He really was the leader of the world, or as much of it as the Romans cared to acknowledge — as the record of executions and wars that “eric” refers to shows.
A much more disturbing thought — and with rather more to back it up — is that America today is not to be equated with the Roman Empire of Trajan, but with the Roman Republic just before its death throes under the Gracchi began. Clark is not be equated with Hadrian, but with Marius, the populist general who politicized the Roman army, and who militarized Roman politics. The thought of Clark being the first in a line of political generals that will end, as the same time this century does, in an American Octavian, might give his supporters pause.
EGAD! another 4 years of Dick/Bush/Feld.. Thank-ye Clarke! But ultimately the Democrats are to blame to allow for this. Systems fail because systems have decayed, and they cannot counter.
I concur with John. The NeoCons might think that this is the start of their empire, but I would think the reality is far from it. I don’t think the dismantling will happen in 100 years, but give it 200 years, and a couple more shrub type presidencies, and you got yerself a “well done” republic!
Bon Appetit!
P.S. Chris, Please!
Whatever critiques and parallells there are, one thing is certain. The neocons have started moving us from democratic republic to a conquering empire. There is no need for us to follow Rome nor Napolean into history. We already are the most influencial country in history (no need to follow someone else). We need AMERICAN solutions based on AMERICAN principles. True patriots understand this. Therefore, neocons are not in our tradition.
The interviews are fantastic but Mr. Lydon needs someone to help him work out the kinks in his setup
I think the poor sound quality comes from the MP3s being too compressed, but there’s no easy way around that problem because better-quality files would be even larger and take longer to download than they do now. Splitting the files into smaller parts is one solution, and I’ve noticed some of the recent interviews are done that way. The sound quality on the Krugman interview is much better.
MP4 (AAC format) might be a better solution, providing better sound quality in smaller files, but most people haven’t yet made the free upgrade to their QuickTime plugins to be able to listen to it.
The other issue I’ve noticed here is that the skybuilders server (which serves up the MP3s on this site) is very sluggish…it can take me 10 minutes to download an MP3 even on a fast DSL or cable connection. Normally a file of that size should take at most a minute or two to download.
You’re kidding?
Elizabeth Spiers is a perfect storm of a media celebrity who has managed to become this moment’s ‘it’ girl in that infamous echo chamber/infinite regress known as Manhattan. She’s no Dorothy Parker or Fran Lebovitz. She’s not even a Tina Brown….
What’s next a paen to the genius of Bonnie Fuller?
LninYo’s post was fantastic. Even though Ken Layne’s quote “we can fact-check your ass” was a great piece of writing, it doesn’t make blogs journalism. I actually wished we see more great writing with blogs and less linking. If I want links to articles I can go to Google News.
By Serena Enger. Are we fulfilling obligations…?
Newsletter of interest
August 2003 The Real Sheet newsletter
Boston Public Library Professional Staff Association
Volume 32, Number 5
“President’s Message: Your Voices
by Serena Enger, Reader and Information Services
Voices of Professional Librarian Committed to Public Service
…
Staff from all divisions concerned about the Research Library’s status
offered the following concerns:
What are our obligations as a member
of the Association of Research Libraries?.
Are we fulfilling obligations when we:
…
. Fail to aggressively promote our resources through an active formal program
of classes and advertising, staff training, and scholarly programs as the
New York Public Library has done in its research division?…
…”
Ask for August 2003 The Real Sheet newsletter article pages 1-6
available by email from the text editor word processing file.
Contact Boston Public Library Professional Staff Association President
Serena Enger senger at bpl dot org
Or BPL tel 617 536 5400
Or use the form at…
Ask a BPL Librarian a Question
http://www.bpl.org/questions/index.htm
Or ask for the periodical via interlibrary loan or fax.
Unless I miss something, the eloquent “Hadrian” quotes were eloquent Yourcenar, no?
Shedding Light On a Symbol Of Iraqi Terror
Ex-Prisoners Describe Horrors, Call for Justice
By Peter Finn
Washington Post Foreign Service
Monday, October 6, 2003; Page A01
ABU GHRAIB, Iraq — Prisoners were brought to Iraq’s most feared prison in an ice-cream truck, a soft cone painted on its side. After sentencing at the nearby Revolutionary Court, following a perfunctory trial, the prisoners were hustled outside and loaded in the back.
“We were waddling like penguins because of the torture,” recalled Ahmed Mohammed Baqer Attar, a 41-year-old Baghdad physician. “And then we saw an old ice-cream truck.”
“It’s hard to believe,” he continued, a smoker’s laugh rising from his chest. “But everything was hard to believe.”
On the short ride to the prison, a forbidding structure that sprawls over 280 acres about 20 miles west of Baghdad, the men who had just been sentenced to death kissed those who had received jail terms and begged them to get word of their fate to their families. “They were weeping and trembling and they made us swear,” said Karim Hassan Jabbar, 45, another physician who spent nine years in the prison.
In the shuddering whispers of this formerly closed society, Abu Ghraib was known as a colossal dungeon where the silent screams of its captives became the symbol of state terror. Abu Ghraib was the Iraqi gulag.
Some of those in the ice-cream van, facing 20 years in this prison rather than death, wondered if they were the unlucky ones. “I felt such agony, such despair, it felt like a knife turning in my stomach,” said Hakem Kharqani, 43, of the moment he crossed the prison’s threshold in 1982. He had already endured torture at the headquarters of the secret police in Baghdad, including electric shock. He feared it would continue without end.
For thousands of political prisoners crudely executed by hanging in its ghoulish death chamber, Abu Ghraib was the final station in an excruciatingly brutal system. Thousands more who eluded the hangman were forced to survive in overcrowded, putrescent, disease-infested cells where the threat of violence, including beatings, torture and summary execution, was ever-present.
Today, Abu Ghraib’s political prisoners are giving witness to the apparatus of repression under former president Saddam Hussein. The survivors are providing detailed, firsthand testimony, one at a time, about the system’s capricious barbarism. A more complete historical accounting is likely to take years. The prospect of trials, both for the country’s onetime leadership and its functionaries, remains distant.
Among survivors, there is a strong desire that the pain of Abu Ghraib not be forgotten. They want a new legal system to exact retribution, and they want the lessons of the past to be etched into memory as a guarantee of Iraq’s future freedom.
“The prisoners are Iraq’s best teachers,” said Kharqani.
Arrest and Torture
The secret police, dressed in civilian clothes, came for Kharqani at home. It was just hours after an evening celebration at Baghdad’s Alwiya club where his civil engineering class marked its graduation. Upon his return from the club, his family showered him with chocolates, an Iraqi tradition. He was the first among seven children to get a university degree.
Away from the neighborhood, in the back of the vehicle, Kharqani was blindfolded and handcuffed. He was taken to the headquarters of the Directorate of General Security, where he was chained to a radiator in a corridor outside interrogation rooms, a hood still over his head. He could hear the screams and moans of prisoners undergoing questioning.
“They softened you up by forcing you to listen,” said Attar, who was arrested after he was summoned from a class on microorganisms to the deputy dean’s office at Kufa University. Two agents quietly led him away and then drove him to Baghdad.
Occasionally, a passing guard whacked the shackled prisoners with a stick. They flinched at footsteps, barely breathing in their shrouded darkness. Some prisoners had already soiled their pants.
After several hours, the prisoners were brought into an interrogation room. The questions began with the routine: name, age, occupation. Then, an offer to confess now, and avoid the worst. Some prisoners, like Kharqani, had no sense of the charges against them. Others, like Attar, understood that admitting to membership in prohibited groups, such as the Shiite Dawa party, meant death.
The word of an informer, the forced confession of a friend or, in some cases, genuine intelligence led to the arrests. Islamic activists, Communists and Kurds all shared the same fate.
Kharqani was the unwitting acquaintance of a student involved in an Islamic opposition group accused of attacking Tariq Aziz, then deputy prime minister, with a grenade as he opened a student conference. Attar moved in religiously active student circles at his college in southern Iraq, near the holy city of Najaf.
Abdul Hussein Faraj, 47, and arrested in 1988, admits now that he was a member of the banned Dawa party.
Once one member of a family was arrested, other relatives were exposed. Kharqani’s younger brother, Raheem, later disappeared, and his father died within a day of being released from the General Security headquarters. The family suspects he was poisoned.
In the interrogation room, the hoods were removed. The prisoners had their hands tied behind their backs with cuffs and rope; Faraj’s wrist is still cross-hatched with scars from when he was bound. They were then hoisted by a rope attached to a hook in the ceiling so they dangled above the ground, the tendons in their shoulders tearing under the strain. The ball and socket in the shoulders of some prisoners completely rotated, Attar said.
The prisoners were lashed with cables. Clips were attacked to their earlobes, nipples and genitals and they were administered electric shocks. When they passed out, as they almost invariably did, they were dragged back to the corridor and cuffed again to the radiator, a dozen former prisoners recalled in interviews.
This torture continued for several days, hours at a time, even after the prisoners broke. Nearly all eventually signed forced confessions put in front of them and stamped them with a single fingerprint, their hands lifted to the paper by the guards because the prisoners no longer had the strength.
Prisoners who held out longer than expected were subject to further horrors. Faraj saw his mother dragged in front of him. His mother’s gown was roughly lifted, exposing her bare legs and underwear as the police said they would rape her. The humiliation, he said, was unbearable. Kharqani and two other inmates were forced to watch three other prisoners killed with acid.
When the torture ended, the prisoners were bundled into one of a number of fetid basement cells so crowded that prisoners created their own rotation for lying down, sitting and standing. Newcomers were greeted with the only gift in the power of the prisoners. “All the new prisoners were washed by the others,” said Attar. “You couldn’t use your hands so they helped you with the toilet,” a hole in the ground. The cells were about nine feet by six feet and each held between 35 and 40 prisoners, former inmates said.
For months, sometimes years, the prisoners said, nothing more happened. Kharqani was arrested in December 1980 and brought to trial in July 1983. They subsisted on small rations, thin soup and bread, sitting in their underwear because of the hot, pungent air. In whispers, those who had memorized the Koran recited it.
Eventually, they faced a trial before the Revolutionary Court, set up in 1968, when the Baath Party came to power, to try “spies, agents and enemies of the people.” On the morning of Attar’s trial, the court was presided over by Muslim Hadi Jubouri, who condemned the 45 prisoners assembled in front of him as “criminal scum” when the proceeding began. The signed statements obtained by the secret police lay before him.
That day 37 men were sentenced to death, five men to 20 years imprisonment and three men to seven years. The whole proceeding lasted 20 minutes, Attar said.
The Death House
Abu Ghraib’s death house, shaped like an ankle-boot, is a modest building. From the main entrance, there are 10 tiny cells on the right, which held up to 25 prisoners in each. Graffiti where prisoners scratched the passing days are still on the wall, along with pleas to Allah. “God save me,” reads one inscription, “and I will pray 70,000 times.”
Shedding Light On a Symbol Of Iraqi Terror
But there was no hope; decisions of the Revolutionary Court could not be appealed.
U.S. officials who are renovating Abu Ghraib, where 1,000 people have been incarcerated since the occupation began, estimate that 30,000 people were hanged there in the Hussein years. The total may be higher. Ahmed Abbas, a statistician at the prison from 1999 to 2001, said he recorded about 2,500 executions a year of both criminal and political prisoners. The execution rate in the prison was higher in the 1980s, when the government launched oppressive campaigns against its perceived enemies in both the Shiite and Kurdish communities, and again in 1991, when it put down revolts following uprisings in the Shiite south and Kurdish north.
In the early 1980s, the hangman was known as Abu Widad, according to former prisoners and guards. A tall muscular man, whom the prisoners called the “sword,” he carried on his hip a pistol engraved with Saddam’s name.
Executions were scheduled for Wednesdays and Sundays, beginning in the early evening and continuing for hours until, on some days, as many as 50 or 60 people had been hanged, said Kudhair Atwan Jabr, 46, an ambulance driver who witnessed the killing and then removed the bodies from the chamber.
The smell of whiskey was always on Widad’s breath, he said.
Prisoners were led bound from the cells to the building’s dank lobby where a committee, sitting at a table, read the death sentence. The execution chamber lay just beyond. They were then walked up a ramp and placed on one of two square trapdoors embedded in the floor. The doors split in the middle.
A thick noose hung from a crescent-shaped piece of steel set in the roof over each door. The U.S. occupation authority has the last two noose ropes found at Abu Ghraib, U.S. soldiers at the prison said.
The noose was placed over each prisoner’s neck and a green hood was put over his head. A lever opened the two doors and the loud clang of them banging open signaled to the prisoners still in the cells that an execution had taken place.
Another hangman, known as Akeel, who served in the late 1980s, would sometimes stand on the trapdoor with the prisoner, embrace and fall with the condemned men to ensure they died quickly. “He always hugged the thin ones and fell with them so it would be a mercy to them,” said Jabr, who worked at the prison from 1987 to 1991. The whereabouts of the executioners’ are unknown.
Sattar Latif Ridha was executed by hanging in Abu Ghraib on Jan. 30, 1982. He was 18. Recently graduated from Kadhimiya high school, he was “a handsome young man,” according to his religion and Arabic teacher, Aldin Ahmed Morad.
Ridha was one of a group of religiously active students from the same neighborhood picked up in the fall of 1981 and taken to the General Security headquarters. He was minding a friend’s store. And then he was gone. “Young people like my brother tried to fight the regime,” said Jamal Latif Ridha, Sattar’s older brother. “And Saddam destroyed them.”
In April 1993, a political prisoner, Awda Hamdan, received word from his family that his young son had died. Nearly hysterical with grief, Hamdan shook his fist at one of the ubiquitous portraits of Saddam Hussein that were hung or painted throughout Iraq’s largest prison. Someone shouted, “Don’t do it,” Kharqani recalled.
The picture fell, the glass in the frame shattering, and a brief, fearful silence descended on the hallway where it had hung. Hamdan, about 28 years old, quickly insisted it was an accident, but an orderly reported him to security officers. He was savagely beaten with sticks and iron bars and tossed in one of the solitary cells just inside his ward, known as K2, Kharqani said.
Five days later, Sabawi Ibrahim Hassan, Saddam’s maternal half-brother and director of Iraq’s General Security Directorate from 1991 to 1996, arrived at the prison.
Hamdan was dragged out to the exercise yard and tied to a stake. A group of prisoners, about 50 or 60 in all, were summoned from different wards in the political section and ordered to sit on the dirt. Hamdan was shot repeatedly by one of the bodyguards of Hassan. “Sabawi said it was a lesson,” Kharqani recalled.
A Treacherous Place
The construction of Abu Ghraib, commissioned and designed in the 1950s, was shelved until the mid-1960s, when conditions in Baghdad’s Ottoman-era prison forced the government to start the building. It was completed in 1969, just after the Baathists seized power.
“A building or a place is not evil,” said Abdul Kareem Hani, 75, who was appointed minister of labor and social affairs in 1963 and ordered the prison built. He ended up a prisoner in Abu Ghraib in the 1990s after failing to report a plot against Hussein in which a friend was involved. “The men who run it make it evil. Abu Ghraib was supposed to be a modern, progressive institution.”
Surrounded by nearly three miles of 20-foot-high, cinder-block wall and 24 watchtowers, Abu Ghraib was divided into five sections, each with its own walled security perimeter: long-term criminal; short-term criminal; the Arabs and foreigners section; the death house; and the political section, which in the 1980s was subdivided into closed and open sections.
The prison had a 20-bed hospital, large exercise yards, agricultural land to teach farming and numerous workshops, including one for sewing and embroidery, as part of its original mandate to rehabilitate prisoners. Built to house 1,500 inmates, the prison at times held 25,000 men within its walls.
After the treatment prisoners had endured at the hands of the secret police in Baghdad immediately following their arrest, including severe torture, the conditions in Abu Ghraib, bizarrely, were something of a relief. “To be put in a cell where you could breathe, where you could lie down on your back to sleep, where you talk, it seemed like a mercy,” said Abdul Kareem Shaneen, 46, who spent nine years in the prison.
But as the numbers swelled through the 1980s, medical problems, in particular, began to proliferate in filthy, lice-infested cells. The numbers in the political section grew so large that two warehouses were built to hold the overflow, including army deserters who also had their ears cut off as punishment.
“About 50 percent of the prisoners had tuberculosis,” said Attar, the physician. The prison authorities only occasionally provided medicine — streptomycin — which the prisoners who were physicians administered. “We often used one needle over and over without hot water to sterilize,” he said.
The death of a 25-year-old prisoner from tuberculosis finally sparked a revolt in 1988. The prisoner had been coughing blood for months and the guards had ignored all pleas to get him medical help. He died in his cell, and as the prison guards attempted to remove his body, his cell mates attacked the guards, forcing them to retreat and seizing their keys. They opened the other cell doors, although the 20-cell ward itself remained in lockdown.
“It was mayhem,” Attar recalled.
A delegation of officials from Baghdad decided to negotiate rather than crush the small uprising, Attar said. They asked for a list of demands. In return for promises of good behavior, the prisoners in the closed sections were allowed family visits and care packages, including food, blankets and mats; guards routinely extracted bribes for their safe delivery, prisoners said.
Over the next few years, Arabic, philosophy and other classes began in the cells. Attar taught a course on logic. Hani, the former labor minister, taught English. Conditions became so lax during the Persian Gulf War that some prisoners, including Hussein Shahristani, a nuclear scientist, were able to escape.
But the prison remained a treacherous place. The authorities maintained informants to report on political activism. “You had to think of anyone you didn’t completely trust as an informant,” said Hani, who was imprisoned in Abu Ghraib from 1995 to 2001.
Prisoners found with radios, which were banned, or proscribed books, such as those by leading Shiite clerics, were removed to one of the security offices in each cellblock where they were tortured. One security officer, Falah Aqula, was named by seven prisoners in separate interviews, as well as by former guards, as the prison’s principal torturer. Aqula fled as the war ended.
The accounts of victims are supported by former prison guards. “There were bad cases that we were forced to beat,” said Jafir Sadr Mohammed, 56, a former prison captain at Abu Ghraib. “Some of them you wanted to kill. If we suspected something, we would take their confessions while we beat them and then put them in solitary.”
Hussein issued several amnesties, but each time they passed Kharqani by, because he had been convicted under an espionage statute. “I thought I would die in Abu Ghraib,” he said.
But on Oct. 20, 2002, the prison loudspeaker announced, “We have happy news for you.” Names were called until the prison authorities simply let everyone out. Kharqani emerged to a mob scene of news media cameras and frantic relatives who had gathered by the thousands outside the prison gates.
His mother and sister were in the crowd, but he didn’t see them. He and some friends, all long-term prisoners, eventually found a taxi, and the driver was so pleased for them, he gave them a tour of the city before dropping them off in their different neighborhoods.
“There was so much I didn’t remember,” said Kharqani. “I didn’t even know my way home. I was like a child in the city.”
[B]THIS is the Iraq that the far-Left wanted to protect. And THIS is the Iraq that too many on the Left wanted to turn a blind eye to.[/B]
Phil
_______________________________________________
[B]Liberal, yes, but not willing to do nothing in the name of ‘peace’. Your so called ‘peace’ is described above.[/B]
I was impressed. He actually knew something about the grassroots co-existence movement that is forging peace from the bottom up. He has confidence that comes from experience about the uses of war and the non-uses. I think he’s the smartest presidential candidate we’ve seen since JFK ran. I also think he’ll act in Iraq so as to protect the troops, whether that means adding more soldiers or leaving certain areas. My only question is about how well he will delegate.
Reference to co-existence was to the Israel-Palestine conflict and grassroots activity there such as Open House, Neve Shalom, Abraham Fund, Peace Child Israel and others.
I ended up writing a few hundred word blog entry after listening to this. It can be found at:
http://www.reactuate.com/index.php?itemid=503
I’m unable to download Joi Ito’s interviews. Please advise.
“The real opportunity for newspapers, he suggested, could be to enable, coach and sponsor bloggers.”
Actually, the real opportunity is for his own company to stop using its utterly crappy system to host its affiliated newspapers’ content (including that of The Oregonian out here in Portland) online. It’s noisy, messy, user unfriendly, and finding things can be a royal pain.
For someone who himself blogs, Jarvis puts newspaper content on the Web in one of the worst ways imaginable.
3 cheers for the 2nd superpower. Now lets all celebrate the victory of another idiot. Mr. Schwarznigger. Compensation from Emerson comes to mind.. mais non?
What a joke. Said advocated a separate state solution until Arafat signed the Oslo accords, then he all of a sudden came up with this single state obsession. He was too upset at Arafat, so he sold him out.
There isnt much to Said. The man was vain. May he rest in peace.
Oh, and did I mention that I am a JACKA$$ ??
I still know far too little about Clark and his policy views. Unfortunately he has become one more pseudo-blank screen on which people project their own images. This goes for C. Lyndon’s fatuous comparison with a fictionalized Hadrian as well as Will Cate and Randy H.’s responses. Prefer John Kerry or Howard Dean if you will — I am still undecided — but don’t insinuate that Clark is the anti-candidate or a mere puppet of some Arkansas cabal to prop up your own choices.
Too many questions remain unanswered. At least we are getting a clear response to the Bush Doctrine of pe-emptive with-us-or-against-us militarism from the man and some occasionally nuanced views.
Ask questions about economic and trade policies, judicial and politicalappointments, the relative worth of economic and environmental considerations in dealing with global warming and habitat destruction.
What Clark is quoted as saying re. AIDS in Africa is significant and shows an approach to world issues at least as important as the critique of the war in Iraq. His remarks on the Israeli-Palestinian problem are platitudinous but at least they are platitudes on the right side of the engagement/support-Sharon argument.
Question your own candidate, not only the latest threat to your preferred first choice.
Demand more that sound-bite answers and attacks.
Think for yourself (and lave the facile comparisons to ancient emperors to the pages opf historical journals.
Will Cate, I am afraid you may be right about Clark being a sock puppet. No proof yet, just a bad feeling.
No you didnt. Thanks for clearing that up.
Hey, you guys are putting your site’s /whole article/ into the rss description field, that’s not how it’s supposed to work, it clogs up and defeats the purpose of the news aggregator. You’re supposed to put in a one-sentence or so /description/.
(for your convenience, here it is – see for yourself.
http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/lydon/xml/rss.xml
)
I like listening to your interviews, but may I offer a suggestion: your MP3s would be more useful if the ID3 tags were filled out. At some point these files will be separated from the original context and fully filled out tags reduces the amount of archeology required to figure out “what is curry.mp3?” in a directory of 10,000 files. I love the content, but adding this one tiny technical detail will make everything a little easier in dealing with them. Keep up the good work!
Thanks for sharing the Said interviews. Your remembrance, and the dignified tribute that your pages offer to him is an appreciated gesture of admiration and respect. Thank you.
As a software engineer vitally concerned with the ease with which Bush thugs will steal the next election as well, I am looking to you to help publicize the bits and bytes of how easy it is. I gave testimony to both the Boston City Council and the ACLU about the ease of stealing a computerized election: note they use the euphemism (electronic voting machines) because the know the emotional connotation of the word ‘computer’. As in ‘fucked-up bigtime’.
Enjoy your work. When will you be back to NPR or ANY station, channel or otherwise? If Jimmy Tingle can do it, so can you!!! Dick Gordon nauseates me, even though he is a Canadian (my next home, if this keeps up).
Cheers, Alice of Canton, Ma.
/sorry, forgot the instructions> Enjoy Robert Lowell and his connection with Ann Sexton and Sylvia Plath. Can’t wait to see your review of THAT movie. What would Robert Lowell have thought of Ted Hughes? I froth at the mouth at the thought of his stealing and eliminating Sylvia’s work (as well as the devilish activities of his sister). What part did Lowell’s family have in all his madness? Remember, it’s the entire family, not just one person who provide the breeding ground for madness.
I’m intrigued by Clark: a Dean/Kucinich supporter, i’m also looking for some foreign policy expertise. As well as a brainy guy to work the country to regain our former standing under Clinter with the rest of the world: we are now ridiculed as a bunch of clown. What does Clark have to say about our job situation? And I AM glad to see that he has indicated he was mistaken about supporting the war. We mustn’t put people down for changing their minds with more input….it’s the guys who remain obdurate and never back down from stupidity that we have to be wary of.
A long time subscriber to Nation, I have treasured Edward Said’s words……especially concerning this madness in Israel. For the Israelis to rationalize their continual killing of the Palistineans is idiotic, only continued because our government is so Zionist. I know many wonderful Jews who see through the whole charade, and also respect Edward Said. I mourn his passing.
Alice, the Pilgrim
Well, my first comment got deleted. If you want to see the other stuff that I posted about Lowell, taking up Ron Silliman’s comments on his blog, it’s on this archive page:
http://www.arras.net/weblog/cat_blogwatch.html
There’s also a link on this page to a .pdf of the Silliman/Lowell commentaries. Cheers, bks
Bloom is an enthusiast of the wonders that the mind is capable of, his meditations on Shakespeare and the creation of humanity – the ability of the Bard to create so many “selves” in his works – is merely one example. RWE is another natural for Bloom – an example of the unexperienced life is not worth living – an openness to experience.
No, I don’t agree with many of Prof. Bloom’s judgments – but it is the journey, and not the destination that matters most here. If someone, disagreeing with Harold Bloom, can write as eloquently in favor of DeLillo, and draw people into the experience of his works, who is to say that a conversation hasn’t been started?
It’s 370-odd MB now. Look’s like it’s been expanded to cover more recent interviews.
“Sock puppet” to the Clintons?
That doesn’t seem very likely if you consider Clark’s well known reputation for bucking the ‘old boy’ military system.
A prime example of this is the rift between him and Shelton, which you could say was precipitated by Clark’s repeated unwillingness to play “sock puppet” to the military establishment.
Not much to Said?! What a joke! Only one of the most important cultural theorists of the past 50 years and the catalyst for many a cultural awakening.
But regardless of the previous comments, I found this interview a bit disappointing. Why was Said consistently bombarded with call-ins like the Shalom one from Lydon’s part 1? Why was 85% of the NYTimes’s hack-job obit dedicated to his political activities (and naivities)?
I also can’t get to the interview. Am I supposed to have some kind of programme to do that?
Chris,
I would like to do telephone interviews like you do. I can’t figure out how to do it. How can I get set up to do telephone interview recordings? What software and modem recommendations do you have for us?
Doug Kenline
Atlanta, Georgia
mediocre poetry, but some good conversation. i’d like to see some more international bloggers (besides andrew sullivan). even though the poet was apparently Armenian, she was so obviously American. let us see if we can’t do better than that in the future.
Chris,
Contrast this with a comment at the Wesley Clark Weblog
http://wesleyclarkweblog.com/archives/000529.html#008115
“Not many posters here nowadays, for I know folks want to support and become centralized at the main blog (although I imagine there are still a lot of readers here), but what is here is almost alway “cherce.”
There’s been a migration away from this early grassroots blog to the official campaign blog because readers believe comments at the official blog go right to the top. It seems as if readers have been “voting with their browsers” for centralization.
St. Augustine or Pascal?
The old Connections forums format or your own christopherlydon.org forums format is much, much more likely to generate “the free marketplace of ideas, the place where community generates force” than a blog.
In either case – whether blog or forums – there needs to be some potent seed that draws people to the virtual space in order for a dynamic community to arise.
What a revelation to hear how conversant and insightful Professor Bloom is on jazz. His description of Bud Powell as an “immensely literate man” is even more eye opening, though I’m not surprised to hear that he’s more passionate toward the incandescent modernists Bird and Bud than he is with Duke Ellington. Bloom’s citation of “Parker’s Mood” and “Un Poco Loco” are choice examples of their “doomed eagerness.”
But I agree with Mr. Lydon, that Ellington is more Emersonian than Bird or Bud, both in terms of his robust, independent character, and in his stylization of the authentic American musical vernacular. The American grain infuses all of Duke’s work, as does a truly democratic spirit, both in the way he utilized the individual musical personalities of his band members, and in his embrace of the high and low, the sacred and profane, the most refined and the funkiest– in short, the multi-cultural vitality of America.
Bloom’s friend Ralph Waldo Ellison noted that it was in our appreciation of and ongoing devotion to Ellington’s music that the truth of the “white American’s inescapable Negro-ness,” i.e., our unique American-ness, was most fully revealed.
Tom Reney
This is a wonderful idea.
This is the best observation of What’s Happening with Democracy Now that I’ve seen yet, as well as well as a stirring call to action. Huge thanks to you.
Now let’s get to work on it, friends.
Chris,
Two comments on post-broadcast politics for openers:
1] It is an N dimensional cloud, not a Cartesian shape. Valdis Kreb’s Social Networking maps are a good approximation of what the End-to-End principal might look likein practise [side to side conversations].
2] However, as I recently commented on Britt Blaser’s blog:
Very interesting post. The question I would pose is this: The GOP has built a “Network of Networks”, print, TV, talk radio, cable, and the internet, including blogs. Has anyone else?
I do not see that the Democratic party has achieved this level of integration. So, for example, how does the largest Democratic smart mob on the web compare to, say, Rush Limbaugh’s 20 million listeners? Or to the major tele-evangelists who, I suspect, have more members and have raised more money than even all of the 9 current candidates combined.
My guess is that the old broadcast media and the new media are both required but neither is sufficient. Further, Michael Cudahy and others have argued that the integration of the best of the old with the best of the new into something greater than the sum of the parts is required for success.
See:
<http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=10604>
Winning the Culture War By Brian C. Anderson City Journal | November 3, 2003
“… the emergence of conservative talk radio, cable TV, and the Internet. This “right-wing media circuit,” as Publishers Weekly describes it, reaches millions of potential readers …”
So, I suspect the Democrats will have a hard time winning elections again until their network of networks scales up an can go head to head with what the GOP and neocons have already built.
Jock Gill • 11/3/03; 12:02:44 PM
First of all, although I have had personal differences with Stirling, I listened to this interview and everything he said is dead on and I could add a lot to it. Maybe that will be covered in the second part of this interview. I guess I will see.
Get ready. We’re working on some projects at Clark for President that promise everything talked about here. We’re not just reaching out to embrace the online world. Our strategy allows for the participation of every American — not just those who have wealth and influence. Dean started early and has the buzz but we’re doing it properly. Politics will never be the same.
It was only a matter of time before someone said it, and said it this well.
Count me as an interested skeptic who wishes Trippi’s idea could be implemented, but thinks the day is far off.
When we see the new sensibility of two-way communication and control invade the narrow channel that is still the presidential selection process (i.e., the money primary, the big-foot media primary, the canned conventions, the rigged presidential “debates”) then we’ll know a change is actually happening where the rubber hits the road.
To take one example. Last night’s CNN/Rock the Vote forum gave the appearance of embracing the new networked democracy we’re sniffing around–including such gimmicks as text messaged questions to the candidates. But the thing was still tightly controlled and the candidates — none of them — found a way to not pander to their audience.
Imagine if one of them had interrupted the host , Anderson Cooper, after he cut the debate over the Confederate Flag short and turned to a questioner who (as he knew in advance) asked an inane question about Macs vs PCs. I would have liked to see the next candidate answering interrupt and say, with all respect to the young woman who asked the question, that we were just getting into one of the most important questions in America, how we’re divided artificially by race and what to do about it, and that we ought to take more time to discuss that and that maybe she and her peers ought to concern themselves with more important things than what computer to buy–especially as no one seriously thinks the presidential candidates are IT experts. THAT would have been a refreshing and authentic break out of the box imposed by these inane spectacles that we still call debates.
I wrote up my observations on the debate for TomPaine.com at http://www.tompaine.com/feature2.cfm/ID/9325 in case you’re interested.
Here’s one for you
Following the Money
http://theheadlemur.typepad.com/ravinglunacy/2003/11/following_the_m.html
I think it is time to prelude and fugue on this one.
“Pander” can be the oh-so-slick-feel-your-pain of our overblown Television Anchor Age…or it can be a well-worn, enticing, common comfort channel of a multi-channel conversation, not solely contingent upon broadcast performance for ratings (i.e. syndicated repeats aren’t always “great”, but people still seem to watch them…and end up discussing them around the water cooler the next day)….
Even if feedback looping is not yet ubiquitous across all elder media, the back channels of blogs, Meetups, local organizing groups, mail-lists, etc. are starting to become 90% of the political iceberg to the 10% showing above the broadcast line…
I haven’t thought out all of my comments yet, but I can say that in 2000 I was absolutely disgusted that the choice came down to Bush v. Gore. I supported Bradley in 2000, but I would have gladly voted for McCain. In the end I voted for Nader, even though I think he’s a bit of a kook. (I lived in California; it didn’t affect the outcome.)
Now I support Dean. I don’t think that Howard Dean’s web presence is just about money, although it has proved to be a formidable fund raising tool. Reading that NY Times article just made me so angry that I wanted to give Dean more money.
Why should I listen to Tim Russert or Tom Brokaw? I listened to Chris when he was on the air, because he was intelligent, literate and he respected the intelligence and education of his audience.
Talking down to me is the most sure-fire way to get me to fight back.
White died in 1986. A terrific book about the ‘84 campaign is “The Quest For The Presidency 1984″ by Peter Goldman and Tony Fuller of Newsweek. It’s out of print, of course.
Thank for the great invitation. I’ve been have a fairly quiet – and perhaps somewhat abstract – conversation with some well informed people over the last few days at http://www.aether.com – where I’ve been posting raw thoughts for an upcoming Wired story on the campaign. There might be something in there of interest.
On another note, I’ve been amazed at how resilient some of the discredited themes of old Internet reporting have proven to be. Again and again, in analysis the Dean campaign, we hear that success among a relatively small number of techies means little in the “real world,” except perhaps as it produces a nice infusion of cash to buy television ads.
In a conversation with Joe Trippi this morning, he talked about how the Net is at the core of a volunteer effort that will culminate in an attempt to get 1-2million supporters working the streets during the last week of the campaign next fall, if Dean turns out to be the Democratic candidate. That’s a nice, bold claim – a nice “metric,” as they say.
Unfortunately, the front page of the “Clark Community Network” www.forclark.com) appears to be passworded, which kind of discourages the formation of, um, community.
Chris jumped the gun. The Clark Community Network does not launch until later today.
It’s centralized – it’s worthless.
It dies with Clark.
The use of the internet in the 2004 US campaign is just one more step of the technology revolution. I want to help this revolution grow, and to that yesterday I set up http://blogforcanada.com as a place where Canadians can put forth their views on Canada’s political future. Unlike Dean’s online presence this isn’t controlled by any political party. It’s for the people themselves.
“Blogs will have a revolutionary effect on American media–which may be as nothing, he added, compared to the power that 20,000 Iranian bloggers are demonstrating to shake a whole society. ”
Let’s hope those Iranian bloggers can turn the tide toward a more democratic and free society. The mere fact that they have internet access is a positive sign.
As I’m lisrtening to this interview, Mr. Barrett’s marvelous blog crashed. How curious the irony.
I listened to both parts a little before midnight… It’s almost 2am and I still can’t sleep… What Lakoff is saying is immediately important. I feel like an epic battle of archetypes is brewing… Sweet Jesus! Is Schwartzenegger really governor of California!?!… “Connect the dots”… we (Dean candidacy) have a lot of work to do… I’ve decided to transcribe this interview.
A couple of interesting comments have come to me by email from George Lakoff’s colleagues at the Rockridge research group.
Dear Mr. Lydon,
I’m with the Framing Project at the Rockridge Institute. I work closely with George Lakoff every day. He forwarded the link you sent him to your blog, and I listened to the part of the interview where you and George are disagreeing about how ready Americans are to hear that war is hell. I have some thoughts on this, and would like to share them with you.
I agree with both you and George. I think George is right that there is an extremely important level on which it is difficult to get war is hell discourse out there. I also think you are right in that on some deep psychological and emotional level Americans want desperately to hear that war is hell. The gap comes, I think, from not being adequately clear about what level we’re talking about.
George’s claim about framing has to do with deeply ingrained habits of thinking. It has to do with the fact that conservatives have succeeded, over time, in inculcating certain thought habits in the American public. So much so that Republicans now believe – and they may be right – that all they have to do to hush criticism of the Iraq war is to question opponents’ patriotism. The bell rings, and we salivate.
Your claim seems to operate on a deeper level of the human psyche: that our inherent compassion shouldn’t allow us to make war, and that people are ready to hear this.
My take on it is this: A great many Americans are at war with themselves. Their deepest human instincts tell them that war is hell; their immediately-available cognitive resources tell them that war is necessary and patriotic. Our long-term goal is, through reframing public discourse from a more nurturant perspective, to turn the former into the latter, i.e., to habituate our compassionate instincts through the long-term reframing of public discourse.
The word habituate here is crucial. That’s really what it’s about. The predominant habits we have in our thinking and our language in the U.S. in 2003 are about war as necessary and patriotic. That doesn’t mean there aren’t strong countervailing conceptual resources at our disposal. There are, which is why we’re filled with hope at Rockridge.
Thank you and best,
Jason Patent
I responded:
Dear Jason:
Thanks for a thoughtful response. In the next day or two I will post an interview with Will Hutton in London in which he compounds the argument for a new language of realism not just about war but about the world at large and our relation to it. It’s got to be coined, and as I say it will require simple courage as well as the wizardry of Cog Sci. Stay on the case!
Best to you, and thanks,
Chris Lydon
Next in the email:
Hello,
I hope you don’t mind if I add a little to what Jason said yesterday.
It’s not just a matter of the neo-cons managing to get the War Is Hell frame suppressed right now. It ties into the whole “glorious war” patriotic motif of so much of western civilization. For a closer look, consider the WW2 movies that came out during and even after that war. I suppose the Iliad has a War-isn’t-all-glory motif (people’s brains getting splattered, etc.)–but even there there’s a stronger heroic-war one.
Lots of glorious wars in other cultures, too, and opposition to war on humanitarian grounds is always questioned as unpatriotic (well-known examples in, e.g., WWI, with the “white feathers” presented by “patriotic” Englishwomen to military-age Englishmen who were not in uniform, labeling them as “cowards” and unpatriotic)
The part of all human beings that finds war horrible once it is accurately presented is exactly why it WON’T ever be accurately presented by governments and other propaganda sources (e.g., entertainment). Instead, enemies have to be demonized (”they kill babies” seems to be recurringly popular) and “we” have to be on the side of God (or, rather, God has to be on our side).
Getting people (and not just Americans) actually to go to war almost always requires a rather extraordinary propaganda effort.
And getting people to think about war from a Nurturant perspective (as something that is sometimes necessary, but never glorious) (even though people sometimes do transcendently unselfish things in war) is a civilizational shift of an order of magnitude akin to what was done to get people in many countries to turn against the hitherto-”natural” institution of slavery. Which, of course, means (I hope) that it’s not impossible.
Thanks for a provocative interview series,
Pamela Morgan
(Director of Framing Research, The Rockridge Institute)
Mr Lydon,
Both the lead in and comments have me very eager to listen to you talk with George Lakoff, unfortunately I get a “page cannot be displayed” for part 1 and a never ending search when I click on part 2. Is there something I’m not doing? Dues I must pay?
You (plural, of course) have introduced me to a lot of interesting thinking over the years and I’m glad to have a way again of listening in on your conversations.
John Hooks Davis
Hey, great blog! Just a small correction, though: The MfA slogan is “Music and other Social Causes.”
Thanks!
Rachel
Oops. My post,and I, stand corrected. Thanks, Chris Lydon
Thanks for this interview, which as you can see on my blog, has stimulated a lot.
Will check out the Ong blog, Jonathan.
Thank you “get your war on”. I feel so much better now. I’m going to give my son a giant kiss tonight after he returns from DC public school. I want him to know how lucky he is that 771 of his teachers will be donating their jobs to edure our freedom.
Dick Morris is absolutely right: the Internet is important because it changes voters from being an audience to being participants. As long as the Internet is as available as it is today,people all across the political spectrum will be able to have unfiltered access to others. As time goes on, the Internet should be more available to groups that now underutilize it for political purposes, lessening the existing biases.
Boy Cyndi, you get around. You’re really worried about Clark aren’t you?
Dick Morris is a mealy mouthed sleazoid know-it-all politcal operative. Please point out to me anything original he has said or thought…
RSVP as is repulsive, sleazy,venal putz.
I am in agreement that We have gaps in our defense Policies and 9/11 proved that. A question that is on my mind is why does it take so long to react to a situation. Just as Scarry said the passengers of Flight 93 identified the problem, deliberated and voted, and then acted. Sacrificing there lives from a possible would-be catastrophe. However, I am afraid of the idea of citizens being a bit more involved. That is almost a call to arms. I just see militias forming and the breaching of Pandora’s Box. I don’t agree with to much citizen responsibility.
This is more responsive to the above comment by Robert Birnbaum…
When has anyone not done anything to further their own agenda? Everyone does what is necessary to further their survival, it’s called instinct and we as `animals’ or any form thereof have this embedded in us. Whether some realize it or not, maybe in his own mind he is right, of which I’m sure you think you’re right.
As for the article, I read so many articles daily I get lost, and I take everything with a grain of salt. My only comments about the actual basis of the article, is, yes the Internet works great for reaching people. GenX’ers and those after them will more than likely be reached moreso digitally than by any other medium. With the Internet you’re obviously aware that an advertiser/campaigner/whomever can send out messages to pagers, phones, PDA’s, and all other sorts of devices which makes people aware of the seller.
Most GenX’ers and those who follow are either where let’s see… Clubs, bars, parties, having sex, you name it. Think they have time to watch Martha Stewart? Let a candidate grow some balls for once and advertise after Sex and the City or WWE Raw and see how many more votes he gets than the next guy.
My two cents.
J. Oquendo sil @ politrix . org
J. Oquendo opines:
“When has anyone not done anything to further their own agenda? Everyone does what is necessary to further their survival, it’s called instinct and we as `animals’ or any form thereof have this embedded in us. Whether some realize it or not, maybe in his own mind he is right, of which I’m sure you think you’re right.”
You have to consider what two cents is worth these days. This is a prime piece of fuzzy solipsism, starting with collapsing the distinction between physical survival (food, shelter, health) and political or economic survival (in Morris’ case, maintaining his career so he can afford prostitutes for his foot fetishism). We are all animals (dunno why the quotes around that), no doubt about that, but I’ve never sniffed any President’s butt to figure out my place in a mammalian dominance hierarchy. As for no one working against their own agenda (I believe that’s what J is trying to say), just look at the White House to see where conflicts between agendas lead to actions which subvert what is ostensibly sought. (For example, barring nations from work in Iraq while simultaneously asking them to forgive Iraq’s debt — smooth move, that.)
Morris has shown himself to be a facile liar on more than one occasion and one who’d rather embed himself in power than speak truth to it. Even other animals can sacrifice comfort or even life for a greater good.
Thanks for the reference to politrix.org, though, it’s an interesting site. Looks like it’s running Slashcode.
I found your interview with George Lakoff very intriguing. What struck me was when Lakoff stated that framing a new progressive language involved both “discovery” and “creation”. At that point I thought Lakoff was tapping into a necessary balance between what we might call a Rortyan/Bloomian pro creative position and a pro (re)discovery position that would allow those integral (already) progressive voices from America’s recent past (Emerson, Whitman, Dewey)to be heard again and again and again–like war cries (to be taken most literally). The forces of real Conservation and real Progress (like Wallace Stevens’ “cold copulars”) must embrace in a more deeply meaningful way. This involves, of course, retaining and maintaining a memory for war. The only thing ‘creative’ about war is the memory it generates of its own horror. If it does not do this, then it is utterly destructive, and per Lakoff (and Dewey), a very terrible habit indeed.
I have just recently tuned into this space and I applaud what you are doing.
Sincerely,
A Canadian Fan
Ken McClelland
This guy is a major asshole who will not tolerate ANY diversity of opinion which exposes his, and liberals in general, as the hypocrites they are.
Dear Mr. Lydon,
My Christmas gift to myself this year has been listening to your interviews.
It was very heartening to listen to the music of Mr. Hartl and Mr. Droller. John Dewey was the father of many children, and in listening to this interview I came away with a very good sense that his progeny are alive and well. This spirit of participation and communication resonates, I think, with a real public that is really out there.
Best,
Ken
A great way to set the agenda, Chris!
Hallo, excuse me but I’ve got to tell to everybody that now there is the site of 2010: POverty Elimination.
Beppe
The interviews are great! I just have one request, it would be nice if
the mp3 files were tagged with things like title, author, etc. It makes
browsing them in an mp3 player much easier.
Oh, and it would be cool if y’all would include a creative commons
license embedded in the mp3 files so folks know if they can share them.
Keep up the great work!
An excellent Christmas present to the blogging community. Thanks, and Happy Holidays!
Hello, the link to the Joi interview seems to be broken
“Get Your War On”: Old and busted.
“Day by Day”: New hotness.
Oh, and Chris? Glad to see you have a blog, so I can finally tell you what an asshat you were a number of years ago when, in protesting the repeal of one of the last of our odious blue laws — forcing stores to stay closed on Sundays — you said, “People ought to be in church on Sundays.” As if everyone in the People’s Republic of Taxachusetts is Christian…or even believers.
One thing that’ll always be true about this state: there’ll never be a shortage of elitist twits who think they know what’s best for everyone else.
Audio links of this interview don’t work. Please update!
I wanted to tell you for a long time Mr. Lydon that you are a unknowing mentor to me and one of my guiding lights on this journey to self. When I think of how your work has influenced me I think of a great quote from Socrates, “Wisdom begins in Wonder”.
I admire your “wonder” and look forward to another year of it’s questions.
Thanks for reminding us that we each have answers inside to guide us, stardust inside to build our dreams, and courage inside to try the new and trust the stranger. (even us old dogs have new tricks we can learn and teach) keep doin’ and bein’ you.
the link(s) to the MP3 file are broken! :
Something up with Skybuilders? Looked forward to Gore Vidal’s interview since I just read “Inventing a Nation” but the link comes up “No web site is configured at this address.”
Is it me or do you have a glitch? Whoops, just noticed someone else’s comment about the links
Thanks for the great interviews and the look back at this crazy year!
Hey, Chris, this link to your interview hasn’t been working the past two days:
http://media.skybuilders.com/Lydon/lessig.mp3
Can you tell us when it’s working? Thanks, would love to hear Lessig’s latest.
Your mentioning of Teillard de Chardin and McLuhan prompts me to mention the man that knew both well, Walter J. Ong, SJ, whose work tracing humans’ use of the oral to written to printed to electronic words, as well as his ideas on evolution, conciousness and media, are undersung. He consistently expands on the noosphere idea and is extremely relevent to the work that you are doing.
Your pioneering work has inspired me to add audio to my website, http://www.rememberingwalterong.com. What I’ve added are a lecture and an interview with Ong I’ve obtained.
Good luck in the year ahead!
Thank you. You are the glimpse of blue sky through the dark clouds that keeps me hoping there really will be a spring.
Looking forward to this, but the links to this audio file–in fact, several of them–are broken.
Chris, Your interviews with Joe Trippi and Larry Lessig were fascinating explorations of how the maturing instruments of the Internet and advancing computer software and platforms may signal an unprecedented democratization of our politics and the production of new, creative streams of cultural expression, especially in music and the fine arts. I would like to see you explore in 2004 the challenges and opportunities for the artist who would like to utilize the tools of the Internet more extensively, but fear that the Internet is just one enormous opportunity for Internet-savvy hacks to “rip off” the legally protected creative works of artists and musicians for personal financial gain. Yes, all artists borrow and build on the melodies, harmonies, canvases, and narratives created by their colleagues and progenitors. Nevertheless, the naked, outright theft of artists’ work, facilitated by the Internet and related technologies, has spurred the Congressional overreactions such as the ridiculous extension of copyright laws persuasively assailed by Larry Lessig. If the Internet is to remain a viable platform for open, free, and legally protected communications platform for millions of Americans to share their creative expressions, then all those who create and utilize its liberating tools (Web pages, blogs, e-mail etc….), must begin to self-police the Internet from the thieves and scam artists who, if undeterred, will invite progressively greater government intrusion, regulations, and restrictions on this vital communication medium. Would you consider conducting several interviews with a range of established and non-established artists who have varying opinions on the use of the Internet technologies to produce and distribute their works?
Chris,
It has been a pleasure to listen to your interviews with different personalities. I hope you will look into burning it on a CD or something. You were a pioneer in audio blogging in 2003, and I think many people look forward to your adventures in audio-blog land in 2004.
Maybe an interview with an Iraqi blogger? hmm.. now that would be interesting!!
-A
Kudos. I have to agree with all the above comments and personally commend you for bringing Harold Bloom to the blogosphere. Gurus, acolytes, visions, dreams and Gore Vidal all meld into some kind of a glorious renaissance or blogosphere soup for the soul here at your blog.
How might we get other Boston Public Library staff to use the format of the weblog to let public libraries users/clientele know more of the BPL’s treasured individual staff’s expertise and interests?…
There’s the usual resistance of a kind associated with people in public service.
See also
Collaborative WebLog
A Guide to Problematical Library Use
http://GuideToProblematicalLibraryUse.WebLogs.us
A little tweak for your pic here http://radio.weblogs.com/0102137/categories/tweaks/2004/01/17.html#a1187
k
I’m a Kucinich supporter and I was delighted that Governor Dean acknowledged Kucinich’s courage in his stance against the war from the beginning. There is no question that Governor Dean is a wonderful, capable politician and that his campaign has the energy of the moment. Actually his campaign has the future with its swell of college students and everyone else for Dean. We drove back last night from Iowa City to Fairfield, completely excited. I believe Dean when he says that he doesn’t want to imitate Bush to fight Bush and I think he represents the new Democratic Party. Dean is probably the most capable, fiscally savvy, and actually even-tempered guy running.
So, why am I for Kucinich? Because we are at a moment of revolution (as Krugman points out) and we need another Abraham Lincoln or FDR – we need vision. Kucinich is willing to make a break from recently established precedents and in some cases go back to American ideals like protecting labor. His solution to pull out of Iraq and install the UN shows a willingness to take full account of what we have done in Iraq for the last 10 years and in the pre-emptive strike that has cost countless lives. He is unwavering in his call for universal health care. Kucinich is so unflinching with the truth and where we need to be that I think he could ultimately sell his vision to Republicans. That is IF his campaign could get the traction it needs. I don’t know why it has not, except that perhaps people need to hear more. They are not ready for his seemingly radical, yet totally reasonable agenda.
And this leaves me on caucus night realizing that I have to calculate my moves carefully. I’d obviously like to see these two guys combined. Someone pointed out that Iowans are move involved this year than usual and this is because they don’t like Bush. The agonizing question is who is electable? But it is like marriage: you have to make your candidate electable with your commitment and energy. I’ve told others however, that this is a long race and its OK to go to the caucus without being totally committed.
From where I sit, there’s an uncomfortable conflation (and reification) of both Internet-based communication technology and personality in Chris’ condensed embrace of Dean and aspects of Internet culture. Dean is not necessarily the best nor the worst the candidate because of his deployment of Internet resources. But I’m sometimes uncomfortable with Chris’ position precisely because of an implicit technological reductionism in his advocacy of Dean’s candidacy, as if an aggressive embrace of this technology is sufficient criteria for an enthusiatic endorsement. It’s probably not fair to Dean, as well, to reduce his bid to a referendum on the political implications of this form of political communication and organization.
As the late Gilles Deleuze noted, new technologies have a dual effect. First, they deterritorialize, breaking through old boundaries (as the Interstate Highway System, the telephone, jet travel, and other modes in recent history). But there is always, according to Deleuze, a definite impulse reterritorialization (gated communities, surveillance technology, datamining, the rise of actuarial/preventive techniques across society, etc.)
I’ve always been somewhat troubled by Chris’ relatively uncritical embrace of the deterritorializing effects of technology, at the expense of looking at the alternative face and effects of technological development. My own work has looked at some of the more disturbing aspects of technological displacement and reterritorialization, whether in the recent “The Digital Death Rattle of the American Middle Class,” (at http://www.ctheory.net/text_file.asp?pick=402) or in 1999’s “Late Boomerology and Beyond,” (http://www.ctheory.net/text_file.asp?pick=118)
The trick is to recognize the complexity of effects, and to careful sort out and develop practices of freedom, among them.
Sincerely
Dion Dennis
_____________________________________
Dion Dennis
Assistant Professor
Dept. of Sociology and Criminal Justice
Bridgewater State College
131 Summer St.
Bridgewater, MA 02325
________________________________________
I am sorry if it comes off obnoxious, but, Ken McClelland (as some of
our favorite media are fond of using first name – last name, instead
of familiar first or formal last) — do you see how you personify the problem.
Do you feel the need to show your erudition? Even I, usually interested in
“intellectual” things (ha! – left as an exercise for the reader to figure out
what “ha!” refers to) felt the need to stop reading after the “Rortyan/Bloomian”
part; how do you think most people would react?
people would respond?
Dean doesn’t play to the dinosaur TV people, and they don’t like it. He plays to those who like their TV dissonant. Dissonance ho!
Nice to see you back on the air.
I hope you don’t have to do the show from St. Paul.
I’ll be traveling in NH out of reach of both WHDH and WZBC. Please archive the show so I can download it later in the day.
Chris,
Sounds like a great line up. Call Dave Winer on his cell phone (now that his ears are fixed) and tell him to plug your radio show on Scripting News. You might do the same with Josh Marshall since he is one of the guests.
ps. Great interview with Dick Morris. The guy may be a snake but he’s a very intelligent and focused dude.
Chris,
I have to agree with Dion. Your post is very confusing. Are you for Dean? Are you for the internet? Or are you for Dean because you perceived him to be the most effective user of the internet?
I don’t think you should support any candidate becasue the are the master of any particular communications tool.. be that the internet, TV or direct mail. I think you should support someone in large part for their position on the issues and then throw in a couple of points for maybe character, energy, experience, etc.
I think Dick Morris was right when he pointed out in your recent interview that Dean may have 500,000 email names but that the Republicans have been quietly collecting 20 million addresses. As Morris intimated, Karl Rove knows how to use the internet.
You’ve got the wrong hierarchy working here. Gary Hart doesn’t even blog, or at least hasn’t since November, and you don’t have Doc Searls on your list as he mentions in his blog. What up? Or is this going to be a Northeast phenom?
There’s going to be (or should be) a lot of controversy about role of blog in politics. The Democratic party can’t afford to start experimenting at this time with “new politics.”
DH
Your emission was great. Felicitations to you, my friend.
Your emission was great. Felicitations to you, my friend.
I liked your show so much I commented twice. (Now thrice.)
“…just the right time to be developing a real conversation on the Web.”
If you are soooo interested in conversation why did the plea go out before Blogging for the Presidency for questions to be addressed and then they were summarily ignored?
Why was Frank Rich’s question about insularity and blogging totally ignored?
Looking back, Ed Cone’s reference to an Internet bubble bursting again was prescient. Jim Moore’s Dot Com piece is golden. In what sense were Dean’s internet advisors yes-men? Do you truly promote an initiative like blogging as a political meme by suppressing dissent, or are you setting the trap for its eventual demise?
DH – blogging = Hubris for Tyros
Yes, the media has treated Dean unfairly, but any Democrat who runs for President these days should expect negative treatment by the media, and plan accordingly. People gave money, time, and endorsements to Dean so he could become the President of the United States in 2004 — not President of the Blogosphere or the Guy Who Would Be President If It Weren’t For That Damn Media.
Geez, Chris you sound as if you will be donning lovebeads and praising the Maharishi soon.
A revolutioin is being televised, just not the one many would hope for—and as much as I see the Internet as a window on a brave new world, I don’t have sense that it is about revolution, more about a lot of people with too much time on their hands time.
Oops many apologies about typos (you might add a preview feature/button)
Version 1.2
Geez, Chris you sound as if you will be donning lovebeads and praising the Maharishi soon.
A revolution is being televised, just not the one many would hope for—and as much as I see the Internet as a window on a brave new world, I don’t have a sense that it is about revolution, but more about a lot of people with too much time on their hands .
While I see a grain of truth in the above complaints, I think Chris’ point basically stands: there’s more going on here than just “internet geeks don’t get the real world” as Robert seems to think, or Seth’s “the media is always tough on Democrats”. Dan has the best caveat, I think: the campaign has done some amazing things so far, but part of its current troubles may be self-inflicted.
Bilge water. I’m sorry that’s an offensive thing to say, but that was my immediate response when I read through this.
According to what I’m reading here, Dean lost because Americans, who voted in record numbers in the primary in New Hampshire BTW, don’t care about politics. Something about more interested in football. Why don’t they care? Because they didn’t vote for Dean.
No, wait a sec — that wasn’t it. It was because Big Media is scared of the bloggers and conspired against Dean.
Not because the people made an independent choice for someone else. Not because they felt that Kerry was a better candidate, or that they also liked Edwards in Iowa. Not because they were capable of seeing through rhetoric and making an informed decision.
No, Dean lost because the people are sheep, or Big Media is out to suppress the blogger’s power. Did I read that correctly?
I originally thought all of this was about picking the best candidate to defeat Bush this fall. I didn’t think the only thing that mattered was making sure we had a candidate who was wired into weblogging.
DH: Speaking as someone who was in the studio filming/observing The Blogging of the President, I think it was an honest mistake that blogger questions didn’t get into the show. It was an experimental merger of old media and new… multiple guests in multiple states, phone calls, emails, too much to cover in two hours. I’m sure the next show, if there is one, will make a point of online-offline conversation. There’s a rich opportunity for tv and radio to do something interesting with blogs here.
I think Christopher is right on about this, although the media story is surely more complex. Howard Kurtz takes a good look at it. Dean didn’t kiss up to the media and give them an easy narrative. He didn’t fit into one of their easily-categorized boxes, so they had to push him into one of theirs, be it “Internet-wunderkind outsider” or “angry doomed freak.”
Of course Dean is partly responsible for his public image, and of course the voters can decide for themselves. But – of COURSE the media is the hugely influential goop between us and the candidates. I look forward to studies that concretely show the negative press mentions of Dean and examine the snowball effect.
Blogs obviously represent a very real – economic – threat to big media. You’d be naive to think otherwise; they’d be naive to ignore it. The revolution will be blogged, if it isn’t co-opted first.
I for one just want to say, I’m with you, Christopher. I listened to The Blogging Of The President on MPR the other night and scoffed at the “bubble bursting” comment, how short sighted. The internet is just ripe for politics, and blogs are the way to do it. There’s a reason every other candidate including Bush jumped on the campaign blog
bandwagon as soon as they could, because they saw how well it
worked for Dean.
To say that the internet had no effect on the campaign or the votes is short sighted, to say that one could find no evidence of a blog effect is asinine. You hit the nail right on the head, these are the words of the ailing dinosaurs of the old media.
And should we really just expect that the media will treat Democrats unfairly? Isn’t the media supposed to be UNBIASED? This is part of the issue here, the old media is waning because we can’t trust them to
do there jobs anymore. When the media is run by large corporations, how can you trust that they will speak to the masses, the people, instead of simply serving the agenda of the few powerful elite that
own them, and have an interest in certain stories not making it on air, or certain people not being president? This is where it gets really critical that we have an unbiased and free media. This is why
the new media needs to be truly democratic, of the people, by the
people, for the people.
The internet is so much more than a bunch of geeks with too much time on their hands, and so is the Dean blog, and internet politics. Think of all the ways the internet has already changed your life and all our lives, then realize what it can do for politics, and organizing in general. People in other countries use it as an organizing tool to fly
under the radar of hostile govts., so can we.
I started a blog just 2 days ago, and the impetus was my rage at the very same top down old media machine. I had had enough of the Dean smear campaign from the supposedly unbiased, non-partisan media. And I decided to say something about it. To me that is one of the great powers of a blog, it gives you a voice in the world. It gives anyone a voice, not just those with lots of money. ANd that’s one of the reasons why I think blogs are creating a revolution. Any amount of belittling, just drives the point further.
I suggest that in 2004 the blogosphere should have hitched its “virtual president” wagon to a stallion — instead of Mr. Ed.
It was a mistake for so many people to affix their own identity to this quirky man simply because an ex-employee was plugged-in. Many people can write good policy and have well crafted ideas. Only one – and yes he must be palatable – gets to be prez.
The web is still working. We’re still here. In 2008, maybe it’ll happen differently. Today, we all have much work to do.
VERY weak argument. Extremely one-sided on all of your subjects, all the way through.
The main thrust of your agenda, it seems (besides for the faultiness of big media), is to attempt to belittle Kerry while making yourself feel better about sticking with Dean. You’ve done nothing to convince me, a still undecided voter, that the Dean machine is marching to a different tune.
“A child of privilege and a multimillionaire, two years ahead of George W. Bush in Yale’s secret sanctum Skull & Bones, Kerry makes an implausible populist”
Strike: Dean grew up in a priveleged family. Dean went to Yale.
“William Kristol made the only point I’ll remember: that as long as Iraq remains a bleeding wound, John Kerry’s vote on the war leaves him wide open to Howard Dean’s critique.
Chris’ analysis is fundamentally correct insofar as the media dinosaurs are concerned. We are all pundits in one way or another and the net will someday find a way to propel clever or emgaging remarks not to audiences but to other particpants. In this, blogs are not yet even the model T.
I look forward to a starting a conversation about how we might structure the process of driving a model T of participatory democracy (or, more likely at first, of a corporate one).
thank you
Chris,
For an alternative analysis, check out the posting “The Art of Winning” at http://www.greaterdemocracy.org
The fact of the matter is that Dean mismanaged:
1: his branding efforts — See Rayne’s comment
2: his choice of networks, or failure to use and/both
3: his money
Dean owns these mistakes, not the media.
To do better in the future, as in the general election, it will be more helpful to look at the root causes and not misdirect frustration, aggravation and disappointment at “The Media”.
The choice is to learn or to get stuck in the blogochamber.
Regards, Jock
By-and-large, I agree with Jock Gill and Rayne. In the end, Howard Dean’s greatest nemesis was Howard Dean, not the media. The reality is that politicians have governed through relationships with media for a long time now. Candidates who are not media-savvy drop by the wayside. As is said in social science, it constitutes a necessary but not sufficient condition for successful governance. So, to “blame” the media, solely, is to ignore the reality that a candidate needs to attend to different kinds of media relations – conventional and emerging forms (such as these blogs, which are, after all, a media product, albeit of a different format and audience, to date). If a candidate cannot effectively negotiate through the media morass, how will s/he be able to govern.
The inability to shape media and media representations, combined with the financial mismanagement of the campaign, shows a kind of (relative) practical inability to work outside the blogosphere. For while the Deaniacs may have the politically correct positions, questions about tactical and strategic judgments raise serious questions about the ability to govern, not a relatively small, rural and homogenized state such as Vermont, but a complex, polylingual, polycultural country such as ours.
What Chris has written, below, is the most eloquent, and in some ways right now the most bittersweet, detail of the very real contributions of Howard Dean to American politics. I was not a “Deaniac” but I have been a very good observer waiting for things to shake-out, as it were. I have sent this particular piece of your writing to some of these “media types with talk shows” who are banging the funeral drums for Howard Dean. I ask them to consider these contributions you list. I hope you don’t mind. Thank you so much. I hope this graph gets picked up and “beaten to death in the news.” And I think we should all thank and say a prayer for Howard Dean.
Tess
“First, the politics: the Dean campaign has recharged our limping democracy for a generation, with vivid fresh examples of what citizenship can mean: all that self-starting civic energy, the MeetUp mobilizations, the decentralized consensus, the articulate idealism, the viral activism. Bill Bradley called it the best thing he’d seen in politics for 20 years or more. Is there any question that the model of mayor’s races and Congressional campaigns in the future will be found in the citizen spirit that the Deaniacs put to work? This is the point that I believe old pros like Al Gore and Tom Harkin were endorsing. They’ve seen the future of progressive organizing, and they know it works. In its small-sum fundraising on the Internet, the Dean campaign cleansed the Augean stables of campaign finance when bought politics had come to seem the unbeatable rule. And it put a compelling short list of serious issues on the table for all to argue: the extension of health care, the refinancing and reinvention of public education, responsible realism in a world that wants to respect us. Even as Howard Dean’s vote totals were coming up short, the field of his rivals was sounding more and more like him on the identifiable issues. It misuses the language to call this a political defeat.”
Welcome to Saint Paul, Chris. I have the good fortune to be friends with both Jon Cahill (we worked on some book ideas together) and Katherine Lanpher. I even appeared on Midmorning years ago when Paula Schaeffer/Schroeder? was host.
Jon suggested we have a cup of coffee sometime, and that sounds good to me. I know where all the bodies are buried at MPR — a trunkful of dirt! If this has appeal — give me a call at 651-644-4540 … or mfinley@mfinley.com.
Round and round and round the web spins: I found myself curious to see if there was any news about Spaulding Gray out there. I Google his name, come across a link that takes me to a lamenting essay on John Perry Barlow’s site barlow.typepad.com). I scroll down the page and do a double take at a familar name. I click the link and find out my favorite old Pub-Rad cowboy is back in the saddle, just 6 hours before he mounts up!
Well, I’ll join the experiment by pulling down the webcast as often as I can. And I’ll spread the word with folks back in hubworld.
Listened to most of the first hour. It was refreshing to hear from callers who weren’t buying some of the things that seem obvious to you and I. Minnesota’s not a “red” state is it? I look forward to listening to you talk with the midwest, and I think you can do it. I wish you could have spent more time drawing out the caller who thought that if the leader hates us it’s enough for us to invade.
Christopher,
I listened to the first hour on my way to work, and I have to say, fantastic job so far!
The caller who said that we haven’t had the show be this good in about a year was correct. The way you handled the caller who just wanted to read his talking points was great; other recent hosts would’ve just let him ramble on and on.
What a bonus! I was just listening to The Connection a few days ago and lamenting how it had gone downhill since you left. I even posted on WBUR’s boards that they need to bring you back. And you’re on the air again! Radio hasn’t been the same since you left. Can’t wait to check out Midmorning. Might be tough to listen while working, but I may have to find a way to record it over the net.
Do it the other way, have the ink-stainers on the phone and the bloggers on the air.
Mr. Lydon,
I’m sorry I didn’t send in a question about the Kennedy factor to your Thursday 1st hour. It was again very enjoyable to listen to Minnesotans, and interesting that it was the Massachusetts guys (you and me) that were so unhappy with Kerry. He’s not a warrior, not a political warrior. If folks think Kerry is strong and a good listener and will elect him, then good, the country will be better off with an establishment Dem than with Bush, but if he’s the candidate I’ll only be able to promote him as the best choice offered, and maybe as a necessary half-step toward a more mature, broader, more open politics. Below is what I wrote to friends right after the Iowa caucuses:
Electability:
Ted Kennedy was all over John Kerry’s comeback in Iowa. I’d be really disappointed if it came down to the Kennedy family dynasty against the Bush family dynasty. It would feel like a very old and tired choice. Also, while I would vote for Kerry-Kennedy, I’m pretty sure most of the country wouldn’t. When the Bush Republicans paint the Dem. candidate as “too liberal” Howard Dean can respond–he was pretty moderate and very fiscally responsible in Vermont and Vermont is not a liberal state so much as a libertarian one. Kerry won’t get a chance to respond because the pictures of him next to Ted Kennedy will open and close the discussion in many of the “red” states. I have a lot of respect for Kennedy as a legislator and politician, but he is the personification of something the country has voted against in the last 6 presidential elections.
When the Bush Republicans paint the Dem. candidate as “too weak” Kerry will stumble over his Iraq vote. Only a few Republican sympathizers will swayed by the Vietnam contrast with GWB and a lot of Democrats will be murmuring through clenched teeth that that the country could have used someone in the Senate with guts a year ago.
Great to back and pull-on the mantle, but Emerson was a minister, and spoke to others trying to “save” them, but alas, decided to save himself by lecturing and publishing.Today we have the ghastly expansion of blowggers, and everybodies is saved?
Are you also webcasting? Someone tell me, please. For a non-Deaniac, I am really upset about what has happened to Howard Dean. All along this long primary trail, I had to look away to keep myself from picking the winner–and pledging my heart to him– because I know that the issues that are riding on this presidential election* are so critical that this election will literally determine the way, the direction, of the world for the rest of our adult lives. We are fighting for things that are precariously positioned and it is clear if we let them go now, some will be gone forever, and others…well, the younger ones will spend the rest of their adult lives trying to get them back. Better to hold off falling in love with the “right man” so that I would have my wits about me and be able to throw my heart and soul and brains behind him at the appointed hour. No holds barred. But more than 7 times, I was certain that we would be officially informed that Howard Dean was the “right man.” And I guess I was developing a soft spot for him without realizing it. Whatever he did, he did not deserve the crucifixion he got. In fact, Howard Dean did nothing wrong at all. I do sense 1/2 of 1 ounce of contrition from the press that they feel “something” about how they went after Dean. Now the tip of the hat to Howard for “everything he did for the Democratic Party”. That, in my opinion, is exactly what is “too little too late,” not the missing primary votes for Howard. It was just too brutally painful to watch the complete crash and burn of his campaign…and to see him at “less than zero” from where he started out. Again, I was forced to look away from this primary trail for the second time in six months.
But what is adding even more wincing to my watching Howard Dean politically die, is the way his so-called advisors and endorsers have treated him, abandoning him completely. Could not one of them have stood up there on the stage with him when he made what had to have been the most painful appearance of his life? And the high-profile campaign manager Joe Trippi not missing a beat and becoming an instantaneous talking head on all the spin shows. From his full-sail position as guru of Dean’s campaign, to being awkwardly positioned behind a desk that is obviously too small for him, Trippi now looks like a man whose had his legs cut out from under him. If not a public reunion of these two men, which is what I advocated for immediately, on behalf of their generous-money-giving minions, then Trippi should be staying closer to the people, the real Deaniacs, at public lectures and speaking engagements (that they can afford: free). And not just taking high-paying speech-making for tech companies. Trippi’s motto must be “Laugh and the world laughs with you. Weep, Howard, and you weep alone.”
Trippi would know.
My heart goes out to those people.
*(please, God, this time let it be an election as opposed to an appointment)
TESS: Chris’ guest shots on “Midmorning” are indeed on the web — MPR puts out a live feed in RealPlayer, as well as show archives. Go to the Midmorning homepage (http://news.mpr.org/programs/midmorning/) and the links will be quite obvious.
If you have trouble getting your web browser to correctly open the show, try pasting the link to the webcasts directly into RealPlayer’s “Open Location” dialog box.
F. Everyone’s I.: I have been having a difficult time getting the RealPlayer feed to stay active for more than 5 min. at a time. I’d be curious to know if anyone else is having the same problem.
Political observation: We currently seem to have a schism between the “True Believers” — those who are concentrating on picking the best candidate, who mostly seem to graviate passionately towards Dean — and the “Pragmatists” — those who feel that anyone but Bush will be an improvement and are willing to make their own preferences secondary to a strategic calculation about who will attract the swing voters. Count me in the latter camp, but with great sympathy and considerable admiration for the virtue of the former.
Like it or not, all the rules have been changed. Yes, Dean got done in, and not by himself. But the facts on the ground indicate there is a clear Darwinian overtone to this year’s election. My sole desire is to get the ship of state off the course for the iceberg. After that, we can go back to more careful considerations about who would make the best captian and the best route towards beter destinations.
In my “Political Observation” above, I’d like to clarify: when I say the “True Believers” are concentrating on picking the “best candidate”, I really should have said “the candidate who would make the best president, regardless of electability.”
The “failing” of Howard Dean had nothing to do with over-reliance on the internet, a so-called bubble or any of that crap.
Repeat after me, 10 times slowly.
It’s the media Stupid.
Dave Winer nailed it
Howard Dean is not a soap bar
http://davenet.scripting.com/2004/02/07/howardDeanIsNotASoapBar
Sat, Feb 7, 2004; by Dave Winer.
The Dean campaign taught us that you can’t use the Internet to launch into a successful television campaign to win primaries. By raising money to run ads you play into the gatekeepers, who for obvious financial reasons, have a lot at stake in the money continuing to flow through their bank accounts. At some point he wouldn’t need them. If Dean didn’t get it, they did. So they proved that in 2004 at least, they still get a veto on who runs for President.
To Blitzer, Sawyer and Russert, to Viacom, GE, Time-Warner and Disney, Kerry seems safe, but Dean is dangerous, he routes around them, he goes direct. To accept his candidacy would be to accept the end of television-dominated politics. They aren’t going to let this happen, any more than the record and movie companies are going to roll over for P2P distribution.
But there more to story…
Corporate America decided that Dean must be savaged, and its media sector made it happen.
THE AWESOME DESTRUCTIVE POWER OF THE CORPORATE POWER MEDIA
http://www.blackcommentator.com/75/75_cover_dean_media_pf.html
sorry i missed the show…
is it is available to download or stream?
thanks!
oops! found it at
http://news.mpr.org/programs/midmorning/
What a totally charming, enchanting woman.
Just a note from a blogger, journalist and former radio host to say I have just discovered your blog and enjoy it. Your Gore Vidal piece alone was worth the price of admission.
Gore Vida is our one man opposition party and I am only unhappy to realize that when he departs this earth the American and Candian people, by and large, will not realize what a treasure they have lost. They will weep more when Trump or Paris Hilton cross the silver river.
Sad. Sad. Sad.
Michel Orr
Great idea. I downloaded the .zip file with no issue.
Thanks, Brian Keep
What a breath of midwestern air after all the brutality my mind has been wallowing in since the Madrid tragedy. I hope to sing the body electric with him while listening to some Thelonius Monk and escape into true art for a bit. Mr. Holm is the epitome of why God made art.
The media caught his hoarse rally cry and it was manipulated into heavier rotation than Janet Jackson’s grandmother’s bosom falling out of her outfit during the Superbowl. I agree with most of the posts, but you have to admit the media wouldn’t let that moment of raspiness evaporate.
—–Original Message—–
From: Paul S Prueitt [mailto:paul@ontologystream.com]
Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 8:15 AM
To: Jim Hendler
Cc: Bernard Vatant; BCNGroup Board; Harold H. Szu; Kelcy Allwein;
Michael Lissack; Mike McDonald; Paul Werbos; Peter Kugler; Ralph
Hodgson; Sandy Klausner; Steve Cook; Steven R. Newcomb
Subject: alternative to AI/Semantic Web research
Professor Jim Hendler
University of Maryland, College Park
Respectfully,
I value your work, and you a great deal. But I ask also that you understand what the method is that I have chosen to employ to try to shift some small percentage of federal funding in support of an alternative to AI/Semantic Web research.
I have made a fictional account of a conversation at:
http://www.bcngroup.org/beadgames/techInnovation/thirtyone.htm
based on email we exchanged yesterday. Your name is not mentioned, as this is unimportant to the discussion.
At
http://www.bcngroup.org/beadgames/techInnovation/thirtytwo.htm
we state an alternative to the AI/Sematic Web vision for the future.
Our position is that human thought is a physical phenomenon and logic is not.
In the BCNGroup alternative to AI/SW we positively address the issue of long-term abuse from one community onto another community, and (perhaps more importantly) an alternative to the AI/Semantic Web vision for the future. Once the light of day is shone on this abuse issue, then our society will be able to move on to a more rational expenditure of funds on communication systems.
In this alternative, the growth of computer science funding levels off and then sharply is reduced as the task of creating a functional understanding of what a computer can do and not do is codified in practice. The first step is a requested $60,000,000 to create a Knowledge Science K-12 curriculum.
The alternative, to the AI/SW vision for the future, conjectures that the social/economic energy now spent in confusion, over what a computer can do, will be spent in the proper application of human-centric information production (HIP) on critical social problems such as those creating asymmetric threats and poverty and environmental degradation.
The immediate value proposition is not a business proposition, but a National Security one.
There was a great piece on This American Life ( http://www.thisamericanlife.org, episode 260, “The Facts Don’t Matter” ) that focused on how polls are done in this country, specifically on the polls in Iowa during the primaries there. It’s the last segment. It’s a great listen.
Zephyr is definitely the brightest and the best of all the Deanies. Including the candidate and the campaign manager. Glad to see that she said “no thanks” to Howard’s new vanity forum and is now working for ACT.
I’ve never been a fan of the candidate or the “cult”, but I would not hesitate to support Ms. Teachout in any of her future endeavors.
I was searching for information about William McGregor Paxton via Google and that’s how I found your website. I too would like to hear or read your speech.
Please do an interview with Kanan Makiya.
Hey, something new! I was just moving this link into the dead blog folder. Good to know CL is still alive (though hanging out in the cemetary with his dead friends.)
Where have you been Chris and where are you going. For those of us that have continued checking this site it would be great to get some info.
Fascinating!
Good show, Chris! I love the story and interview on the Bulger brothers. Thank you for drawing attention to this during this DNC tourist season.
I posted a link to this at the Boston Indymedia Web site because this bit of local history is significant and might be overlooked during the current DNC infestation.
Have you been to any of the so-called “free speech” protest pits? The discriptions and pictures appear dreadful and anti-democratic. What a contradiction to Boston! If I were there, I would chose to support the called-for boycot of the FSZ [Free Speech Zones - see IMC article].
And then there is the forced removal of the Aljeera sign from the DNC press sky boxes….
Chris, I miss your regular radio show so much. It really did a lot to help me stay sharp and learn. It was simply wonderful to hear that interview you posted. I wish I could hear you everyday, especially during DNC.
Thank you for all other times. It kept me sane.
Peace,
Martha G. McIntyre (aka “ksandre”)
New Hampshire
Get your free iPod! All you gotta do is sign up for an offer and refer 5 friends and its all yours! This is a completely legitimate offer by a reputable company. Check out the site:
http://www.3sixtyfour.com/freeipods.html
http://www.google163.net
To have Chris back after a long drought is enormously revitalizing. Although the BBC is filled with brilliant and talented journalists, Lydon has a unique ability to bring issues alive. I am thrilled to have access to his interviews once again.
Henry Clark , London England
Hi Chris,
It’s so important that stories like this get out. Bravo.
This is interesting, original and valuable.
good to hear all this.
good to hear all this.
What is the connection between the Bulgers and John Kerry? Or Bill Weld? It seems that one could not rise to political power in Massachusetts without some sort of collusion with the Bulger psychopaths?
Thanks so much Chris for this wonderful piece about Julia. I remember her standing beside a pregnant me- a full foot taller than I am too- at Legal Seafood’s fish market in Inman Square almost 35 years ago. Those were the days that Berkowitz was offering a free taste of his very freshest of fish dipped in batter and fried in the big vat of oil in the back.
The incredible thing about your tale is the inclusion of the bit about the “Blab-off” because my husband Bob made us one ( one that fits the description exactly) in the late sixties. We thought we had the first such thing ( and invented for the same reason) and WE called it a ( yes no kidding) a “Blab-off”!! What do you make of that!
I will always love her and I feel the great loss. She taught me to cook, to love to cook. And she taught me a lot else.
I’m glad to hear about Amber. I was wondering about her the other day.
Thanks for giving me important new perspectives on the politics and principles of the GOP. I don’t “do” a lot of politics at my weblog, but I hope my readers will take a deter from haiku and legal-ethics issues and pay close attention to this posting.
Let’s educate each other on the characteristics of empire, let’s remind ourselves of our duty to uphold democracy, and let’s channel our anxiety and fear of empire into a renewed commitment to a future based in traditional American values – democracy, civility, intellectual inquiry and respect for the rule of law.
as I wirte this I am hearing the RNC Bush acceptance speech full of implied turths that are false and talk of challenges faced..when we have yet to face the hardest challenges of all that lie ahead of us..
Would it be possible to contrast this wonderfull subject with the birth of the Republican party?
It would be interesting to see what struggles at the birth of the republican party still exist if at all..
The imperial project will fail of course, as you say. But I’m worried about democracy. The continuous war makes erosion of democracy easy amd inevitable. That may be the true agenda….
The piece on empire is indeed a very interesting one. You identify one of the problems with the neoconservatives in this Administration: their overwhelming lack of awareness of the value of history.
As history has shown, all empires have eventually fallen and become historical studies. In the early 1990s, as I began my undergraduate degree, I had thought that the US was never an empire. Instead, it was a reluctant leader. As the Cold War ended, leaadership was incumbent upon the US. We have taken that mantle of leadership and either worn it when it was advantageous–the Clinton Administration–or abused it–the current Bush Administration.
Whatever happened to the realists in our foreign policy establishment–the realists that knew the lessons of history? Where are the Dean Achesons and Henry Kissingers when we need them? Even Paul Kennedy had the foresight to make the claim about the potentially ill effects of the confluence of state wealth and empire.
What was unique about the American experiment was best summed up in the Gettysberg address: Government, of, by, and for the people…with a “new birth of freedom” as the result. The current Republican Party betrays Lincoln’s vision today, and I agree, the very concept of a republic, and the most basic freedoms of a democracy are now at risk.
But, really, it seems you haven’t gotten to the meat of the issue. Is this an example of some sort of oligarchy that rules the country or is it just coincidence? Is Skull and Bones some offshoot of the Illuminati or is it more like the Jaycees? Do these guys just get together and drink and have spooky rituals with skulls or is there more to it? Is it Animal House or the Star Chamber?
I was in a fraternity, ATO, it was more like Animal House…is it like that or something more sinister??
In response to Stephen Nally’s comment, I’m worried about both the failure of the imperial project and democracy. The imperial project, and its failure, has implications far beyond just the United States, its economy or its image in the world. Every day, in many, many parts of the world, people are being killed becasue of policy decisions that were made at the top. And every day that these policies (and thier side-effects) continue, we as citizens of the ‘Western World’ remain responsible.
However, the question of how to pull the imperial debate into your (I’m an Australian) presidential election, and our own federal elections here in October, baffles me.
How do you bring such knowledge to so many (apathetic) people between now and October/November?
MAKE THE DIFFERENCE!!
From electoral-vote.com:
From The Los Angeles Times: “Nationwide, at least two polls in the last week showed that newly registered voters favored Democratic presidential candidate John F. Kerry by double-digit margins. The Massachusetts senator holds an even greater lead, the polls found, among voters 29 and younger… The conclusion is that the new voters and younger voters favor Kerry by a large margin, but historically they don’t actually bother to vote. If they do this time, it could make a big difference.
Come on people––your vote is essential!
THERE’S STILL TIME TO REQUEST YOUR ABSENTEE BALLOT in many states if you are registered to vote!
It’s easy; it’s online.
Absentee Ballot information online:
http://www.rockthevote.com/rtv_primaries.php
GET TO THE POLLS AND VOTE ON TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 2ND!!
Please e-mail this information to all of your friends! AND VOTE FOR KERRY!!!!
Your future depends on it!
VOTE FOR KERRY!!!!
Excellent perspectives.
I like extraordinary here, make friends with you
When will the links for this audio file be fixed? Please let me know at Writedumas@aol.com
Now that you’ve appraised The Master, I may slip a toe into those cloudy waters. Reviews gave me the impression the book was drowning in somebody else’s tears.
But I’d prefer Michael Chambon in the movie.
U blog is useful and unique.
Thank you.
Intrigue as far back as when Spelling and Cushing duked it out in the south end can bleed stories about the midget protection by pols via well disguised and otherwise known as gangsters . As I found out these last few years, illness in the guise of those most on high is the link that is of mind boggling proportion in this town and beyond. All within a protection racket the sanctioned hand silently as counterance to thugwerk smooths the rough edges of a system fully old “boueyed” up where the likes of Hoover kept by mobsters keeping king and kennedy et all it goes round creating the environment Whitey and his dimmer brother enjoyed..where is Jackie Bulger by the way? Needless to say I wish Howie were as tenatious a foe of one criminal Law during the partial airing of catholic wrong doing. The fouls which remain undisclosed connecting the good and the bad image bulgers would stand reckoning by a media shooed away by the mob advertisers down on automile. Generations go by with wreckage managed by wolves in sheeps clothing who otherwise could call for justice within the community to those watching whitey and billy and sicker bastards (Howies werd) on the loose amonsgt us.
When did you add comments. I don’t remember seeing them before.
And, um – update?
database cataloging
database cataloging
legal offshoring
legal consulting
scoping services
legal research
data mining
Data Research
Data mining
Data mining
Data Collection
Data Collection
Data Collection
test
January 13, 2005. Orlando, City of Lights. Dear Sirs
It is remarkable to see and hear how many scientific and speculative theories are being exposed on the press, radio and television by the editing media about what some call the wrecked, creeping, wicked weather.
In January 18, 2003; a letter with an “Apocalyptic Warning Message” was sent to the United Nations before the United States lunched its War against Iraq. Press release copies were also sent to some members of the media and clergy, among them “The Orlando Sentinel” main news paper in this city; The New York Times, Reverends Charles Stanly, Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson among others; part of that message reads like the following words:
“Then I saw the execution, the execution of hate and wickedness where hundreds of innocents humans at a time, and thousands a time, and hundreds of thousands to the end were killed, children, women and men, young and old, all innocents souls. Yes, I also saw poor innocent souls paid and trained to be mercilessly cruel. The armies of the Beast were drugged to encourage and enhance performance to kill. They dropped over the Earth thousands of what the prophet Isaiah called: “The weapons of his indignation to destroy the whole land.” I heard this King constant vocalization of “Human Rights,” but he does not have regard for innocent humans nor the Holy Spirit within or the Word of God or the testimony they held.”
“ The great truth was given to me in a prophetic vision. Bombs were being dropped unrelentlessly from the sky, pulverizing buildings by the dozens in just minutes; where dozens of innocents were killed at a time, and sometimes dozens of dozens times dozens. The great slaughter, the Earth pounded along with its people and animals. Moreover the shaking and the trembling of the crust of the Earth by the power of these weapons cause braking and shifting underground of rocks, creating earthquakes around the planet. Volcanoes became active and lava started to erupt from cracks and pits of bombs explosions and earthquakes. The Earth was bleeding and the rivers were being flooded with blood running to the seas. Water and air contaminated with chemical dust and winds full of radiation killing thousands more by poison and asphyxia; heat melting flesh and people running crazily over each other trying to find a door to get out of Hell. Total chaos, the acceleration of “Global Warming” by these “Blasphemous Weapons” will melt the poles flooding parts of the Earth with fury.”
Although I am not a scientist or a member of the clergy, nor a politician; but rather a prophet of GOD, I have received instructions to warn the people of America and the World, about how the first great earthquake that produce the “Tsunami”; was in deed the aftermath of the pounding of the crust of the Earth by the “Weapons of Mass Destruction” the United States has being dropping in Afghanistan and Iraq for over a year now. The continuous unreasonably violent striking and blasting of these “BLASPHEMOUS WEAPONS” has reverberate sound, heat vibratory waves along with toxic particles waves in and around the planet. Trembling and shifting underground rock causing earthquakes and atmospheric sudden catastrophic changes by warm toxic winds, rains and snow. The hurricanes that went through Orlando last year and the multiplication of tornados, mudslides, avalanches, floods, sinkholes, volcanoes activation and many other cataclysmic phenomena is also the result of the hateful amount of destructive energy being released by these WEAPONS which in a blasphemous and untruthful manner the United States went to seek in Iraq, but It rather use them there. The Word in the book of Revelation 6:14 says: “And the heavens departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their place.” This is the six seal: “A man made Earthquake-Tsunami has moved the Earth out of its axis and more devastation is coming as a result of the anti-CHRIST actions of War.”
Before the 2004 national elections another warning vision was published at http://www.Aleuzenev.com; it was e-mailed to the general media, and the end section reads like this words; again warning America: “And behold; the night vision was now like a great television screen showing the name: The King of MYSTERY BABYLON the GREAT; then there appeared:
The President of the United States of America; dressed with a tricolor hooded cloak garment of stars. And he had in his head a crown of gold that was melting; and the precious metal was going into his eyes making him blind; and as he walked toward a ceremonial bowl filled with water to clean his eyes; he then tripped his foot against a Stone a tried Stone, a Precious Corner Stone set by the ceremonial bowl that was filled with water. [That STONE represents the Doctrine of JESUS CHRIST of LOVE and MERCY toward our enemies for the creation of PEACE]. The vision continuous…And as he stumbled and fell his right foot got caught into the ceremonial vessel and the water turned to blood. The President was trying desperately to get his foot out of the bowl while his back was against the floor; but his foot was caught in the vessel with his greed and egotistical pride; and he was shaking his foot with anger and the satisfaction of force while on his back; but the ritual kettle was boiling over with the sacrificial blood of multitudes of humans. Poor and innocent soldiers from many nations, poor and innocent civilians from Afghanistan and Iraq; the blood of poor and innocent children, women and elders from all over the World was overflowing along his side. [The last twenty words describes something like the TSUNAMI]. The vision ended… And the Cabinet along with his Republican and Democratic courts, and the Clergy were there by his side; standing on their knees inebriated with the wrath of his wine; as the American ceremonial vessel became a drowning river of blood. And there came on the screen the words: THE LAMENTATION of ABOMINABLE HIPOCRASY.”
Today I read:
“And He said unto me, you must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues and Kings.” Revelation 10:11. Ivor Manuel prays for you and Peace for the World, prophet of the LORD.
Having just been greatly impressed with The Master , I was curious about what has been said. Yours is the most respectfully intriguing, though I found Toibin’s James not steely or repressed, but spinlessly avoiding taking any stance, ethically or morally, under the guise of superior grace and gentlemanly manners. Toibin is almost impossibly brilliant introducing a more complex version of james and how he manifests in his writing, all the while staying in period quasi- Jamesian prose as well as introducing the material for taking a current view of the era’s view of Homosexuality, feminism, class…… I am fascinated by the seamless integration of all these elements, historical, fictional, psychological and literary.
I am a student creating a movie for a computer science fair. There will be no fees or money exchanged for this project. I need written permisson for all images and music I use. I will give credit as you request. The image is located at http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/lydon/2003/09/03 Plese e-mail me back asap either way.
Thank you,
Meghan Kissinger
I am a student creating a movie for a computer science fair. There will be no fees or money exchanged for this project. I need written permisson for all images and music I use. I will give credit as you request. The image is located at http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/lydon/2003/09/03 Plese e-mail me back asap either way.
Thank you,
Meghan Kissinger
I am a student creating a movie for a computer science fair. There will be no fees or money exchanged for this project. I need written permisson for all images and music I use. I will give credit as you request. The image is located at http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/lydon/2003/09/03 Plese e-mail me back asap either way.
Thank you,
Meghan Kissinger
“Blessed are those who practice My WORDS in their actions.” Thus say the Lord to Ivor Manuel and all My people: “The Peace Makers, the Children of GOD.” March 3. 2005.
nice1
thank you
March 10,2005 City of Lights, Orlando Florida.
Aleluya! amen! Aleuzenev!
It is written:
“For the Lord himself shall descend from Heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel (Good News), and with the trump of GOD (WORD in the BIBLE) and the dead in CHRIST shall raise first, (spiritually death shall know it first). Then we which are alive (spiritually know the CHRIST) and remain (believing) shall be caught up together with them in the CLOUDS (will be communicating with them in the confusion), to meet the Lord in the air (understand GOD mercy and love through the airwaves); and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.” 2 Thessalonians 4:6-18.
Read and understand now:
“Behold My servant, whom I uphold: Mine elect, in whom My soul delights; I have put My SPIRIT upon him: he shall bring forth Judgment to the Gentiles.” Isaiah 42:1.
“To open the blind eyes , to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house (churches, institutions, and leaders supporting and teaching WAR as a solution for World PEACE).” Isaiah 42:7.
“And I will write upon him My New Name.” Book of Revelation 3:12.
“JESUS ALEUZENEV, Lord and Servant of all people, His New Name.”
Chosen and Faithful go tell everyone the Good News, “Jesus Christ has a New Name.” Thus says Ivor Manuel, prophet Branch of the Lord.
Interesting to say the least…
“Yet remarkably he has somehow remained a citizen, one of us, a dreamer, an idealist, a visionary…”
Gag me.
go to hell, we don’t want you here at UML.
go to hell, we don’t want you here at UML.
There doesn’t seem to be any way to send email directly so…
I really love your Podcasts but the sound quality is REALLY POOR. The stereo mix is trashed by the mp3 compression which causes annoying channel flips, noise and distortion. Please either mix it down to mono or change your encoder settings.
Aloha,
Scott
There doesn’t seem to be any way to send email directly so…
I really love your Podcasts but the sound quality is REALLY POOR. The stereo mix is trashed by the mp3 compression which causes annoying channel flips, noise and distortion. Please either mix it down to mono or change your encoder settings.
Aloha,
Scott
There doesn’t seem to be any way to send email directly so…
I really love your Podcasts but the sound quality is REALLY POOR. The stereo mix is trashed by the mp3 compression which causes annoying channel flips, noise and distortion. Please either mix it down to mono or change your encoder settings.
Aloha,
Scott
There doesn’t seem to be any way to send email directly so…
I really love your Podcasts but the sound quality is REALLY POOR. The stereo mix is trashed by the mp3 compression which causes annoying channel flips, noise and distortion. Please either mix it down to mono or change your encoder settings.
Aloha,
Scott
“We all become Serbs in wartime…”is so shockingly racist, I’m still numbed that an intelligent person could write something so unintelligent as that.
I then realized, it just underscored the complete and total demonization of an entire people – the result of the same kind of propagandistic and biased saturation media coverge the author accuses Belgrade of.
Sorry to confuse you, but there are thousands of Serb victims of the Balkan wars, the most recent in Kosovo, that shining light of Clintonesque “humanitarian intervention”.
Those Serbs remaining in Kosovo live in terror each day, guarded and protected by NATO troops. You and Hedges remain silent and ignore their plight. Or maybe being so throughly demonized, they illicit no pity and support. Hey they maybe deserve it.
Serb churches, centuris old, continue to be demolished and razed by Albanians, entire Serb communities destroye and attacks continue unabated, and all under the watchful eye of NATO.
Your statement implies that Serbs had no victims, were the sole perpetrators of crimes and as such must bear all the blame.
The fact that all responses to this horrid and unfair statement did not even pick up on it and accepted it as a statement of fact, is very distressing indeed.
just a question, What are Appointments made on the basis of political, but limitedby civil service regulations, are generally termed?
i think Mr. Isaac Newton is the best mathematician and scietific guy i’ve ever learn. and the interesting fact is i get to do a roject about him. and have to present it in front of 32 class. and has to video tape it also.
The INNOCENTS and their FAMILIES are the losers in WAR in IRAQ.
Up until today; 1,571+ innocent American soldiers have been killed in IRAQ.
Soldiers who were wounded, lost body parts, or were paralyzed, and have become chronically ill with physical or mental illnesses. Also, soldiers that have been evacuated due to non combatant wounds or other injuries and diseases are over 17,000.
Other innocent soldiers from coalition troops dead number 176.
All the dead and those wounded are Innocent, because they were defending (and still are) the erroneous Vision of FREEDOM of a utopian political demagogue; whom had received power from the people to lead them and enlighten a dark World with Mercy and Love (if he in deed was a follower of CHRIST as he had said). However, he deceived the people with his own vision of “WAR on TERROR” for PEACE; Instead of using that power for good he used it to steal, kill and destroy because he is also a liar
As it is written and the MESSIAH says:
“VERILY, verily, I say unto to you, He that enters not by the door (employing His “Gospel of PEACE”) into the sheepfold (to lead the Faithful), but climbs up some other way, (“Advance of Freedom and PEACE through WAR”) the same is a thief and a robber. “Yes, he has stolen the FAITH and the WEALTH of the PEOPLE with lies; and has used THEM to kill and destroy;”
Innocent Iraqi civilians killed by U.S. BOMBING are estimated to be between 21,000 and 25,000 in two years; most of them elders, women and children. IRAQ is in chaos and all people including American soldiers and their families of the nation are suffering. Is this not a WAR CRIME against the people of IRAQ and all humanity? Can we humanly say that this insane killing and human suffering should be called Liberation?
WE THE PEOPLE (TAXES) ARE BEING ASK TO DONATE MORE MONEY TO SUPPORT OUR SOLDIERS IN IRAQ. SAY TO YOUR CONGRESSMAN: “WE WANT OUR FAMILY HOME! STOP THE KILLING AND BRING THEM HOME.”
The Word of GOD written says:
“Woe to him (unrighteous king) that increases that which is not his! (Afghanistan and Iraq) How long? And to him that covers himself with thick clay!
“Because you have spoiled many nations, all the remnant of the people shall spoil you; Because of men’s blood and for the violence of the land, of the city, and of all that dwell therein.”
“Woe to him (of unrighteous actions) that covets an evil covetousness to his house; that he may set his nest on high; that he may be delivered from the power of evil!
“You have consulted shame to your house by cutting off (crippling) many people, and have sin against your soul!”
“Woe to him (the anti-CHRIST) that builds a town (Iraq) with blood (instead of Mercy and Love), and establishes a city with iniquity!” That is the vision that was embraced by the prophet Habakkuk for an appointed time in chapter two; and Ivor Manuel prophet says: “The time is now America, open your eyes and awake to RIGHTEOUSNESS!”
Moreover:
“Though you exalt yourself as the eagle, and though you set your nest among the stars, thence will I bring you down, says the LORD.” Obadiah 4
“Yet you shall be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.” Isaiah 14:15
“Open your eyes wide; read and understand for the “Judgment of GOD” is coming down upon sleeping AMERICA!”
PAT ROBERTSON from the 700 CLUB said something like this: “GOD told me that He is going to remove some Judges from their benches.”
But what I hear My GOD and Our MESSAIH say is this:
“Political leaders of AMERICA, REPENT! You have misled the Nation.”
“Shepherds of AMERICA, REPENT! You have misled My PEOPLE.
“Military Leaders of AMERICA, REPENT! You have misled the World.”
“Because you don’t believe in ME, UNRIGHTEOUS is your JUDGEMENT.”
Thus Says the LORD JESUS ALEUZENEV;
LORD and SERVANT of all PEOPLE, My New Name.
“AWAKE to RIGHTEOUSNESS, and SIN NOT: For some HAVE NOT the KNOWLEDGE OF GOD: I speak this to YOUR SHAME.” I Corinthians 15: 34.
“For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little and there a little.” “For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.” Isaiah 28
“BENDITOS LOS QUE CREEN EN EL NOMBRE DEL SENOR.”
I am here to publish and declare the TRUE FREEDOM for PEACE; which is MERCY and LOVE and the DOCTRINE of OUR LORD; and the NEW NAME of the LORD, which is JESUS ALEUZENEV, LORD and SERVANT of all PEOPLE. Revelation 3:12. Thus says Ivor Manuel, prophet branch of the LORD; praying for you and PEACE for the World
“And My LORD MESSAIAH said unto me, Thou must PROPHESY AGAIN before many PEOPLES, and NATIONS and TONGUES, and KINGS.” Revelation 10: 11.
Ivor Manuel, prophet branch of the LORD; prays for you and PEACE for the WORLD. OPEN YOUR EYES AMERICA!
http://www.aleuzenev.com
FREDOM through RIGHTEOUSNESS.
American Christianity has been hewn like a “STONE” by the Government politicians and the SHEPHERDS of UNRIGHTEOUSNESS; it is now base on the system of Democracy which is a man thought Government system of Idolatry for Power; the control and share of the richness of the country and its people; and now the Planet’s wealth. Just as Communism control the mind of the people with the implanted idea to prevent the rich from abusing the poor. However both systems are in default because they both want to control the World and its people.
RIGHTEOUSNESS is the TRUE element of FREEDOM missing in both of these systems. Feeding all the people first; must be the primary duty of every ruler. There are hungry people in America and the World, many monstrous problems in the nations exist; while George W. Bush plays golf erroneously thinking, Democracy by force is the answer for a better World, quickly exhausting the peoples’ wealth doing WAR; then asking for more. A bloody man WHOM IS a LIER and a COWARD; that penetrated the mind of the wealthy American and religious Christians instigating FEAR, and using morality as crutch to gained power from the ignorant religious.
Here is the STONE of your FAITH; MESSAIH SAYS: “Thou shall love the LORD your GOD with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. That is the First and GREAT COMMANDMENT. And the second is like unto it. Thou shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Matthew 22:37-39.
Anything else is a LIE! Once there was bloody FAMOUS KING that finally understood that GOD did not approved WAR. It is written: “Then David the King stood up upon his feet, and said: Hear me, my brethren and my people; as for me, I had in my heart to build an house of rest (Temple) for the Ark of the Covenant (Spiritual LAW of GOD) of the LORD, and for the foot stool (the PEOPLE) of our GOD; and had made ready for the building. But GOD said unto me, thou shall not build a house for My Name, because thou have been a man of WAR.” Chronicles 28:2.
Now King SOLOMON his son; translated King PEACE; built the TEMPLE. And JESUS CHRIST whom people called “Son of DAVID;” He built the TRUE TEMPLE of worship and PEACE with MERCY and LOVE; giving up His own BLOOD for all. There is no need to shed blood for PEACE sending our sons to WAR.
GOD laid a “STONE” for PEACE.
It is written: “Therefore thus says the LORD GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion (MONUMENT) for a foundation a STONE, a tried STONE, a precious corner STONE, a sure FOUNDATION: he that believes shall not make haste.” JUDGEMENT also will I lay to the line, and RIGHTEOUSNESS to the plummet; and the heil (hail to George W. Bush; “NO MORE VIOLENCE, NO MORE KILLING NO MORE WAR, NO MORE LIES”) shall sweep away the refuge of the LIES, and the waters (CLEANING WATERS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS) shall overflow the hiding place.” And your covenant with DEATH (PUNISHMENT by KILLING) shall be disannulled, and you agreement with HELL (WAR) shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then you shall be trodden down by it.” Isaiah 28:16-18.
And Ivor Manuel says to you and the World: “A Christian or anyone in the World calling himself CHRISTIAN or Children of GOD; from any nation or any religion that believes in DEMOCRACY or FREEDOM, in the same way that George W. Bush presents them to the World; advancing FREEDOM through VIOLENCE, WAR and BLOOD SACRIFICE is a WRONGDOER and a SINER; and like a Usama that pretends to make ALLAH the GOD of PEACE by VIOLENCE intimidating people through TERRORISM and BLOOD SACRIFICE.
“I AM the LORD that is My Name; and My Glory will I not give to another, neither My Praise to graven images or memorial monuments to praise WAR.” Isaiah 42.
I heard His Voice saying:
“Political leaders of AMERICA, REPENT! You have misled the Nation.”
“Shepherds of AMERICA, REPENT! You have misled My PEOPLE.”
“Military Leaders of AMERICA, REPENT! You have misled the World.”
“Because you don’t believe in ME, UNRIGHTEOUS is your JUDGEMENT.”
Thus Says the LORD JESUS ALEUZENEV;
LORD and SERVANT of all PEOPLE, My New Name.
Open your EYES and READ! It is WRITTEN:
“AWAKE to RIGHTEOUSNESS, and SIN NOT: For some HAVE NOT the KNOWLEDGE OF GOD: I speak this to YOUR SHAME.” I Corinthians 15: 34.
“For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little and there a little.” “For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.” Isaiah 28.
“BENDITOS LOS QUE CREEN EN EL NOMBRE DEL SENOR.”
I am here to publish and declare the TRUE FREEDOM for PEACE; which is MERCY and LOVE and the DOCTRINE of OUR LORD; and the NEW NAME of the LORD, which is JESUS ALEUZENEV, LORD and SERVANT of all PEOPLE. Revelation 3:12. Thus says Ivor Manuel, prophet branch of the LORD; praying for you and PEACE for the World.
http://www.aleuzenev.com
THE anti-CHRIST.
It has been said:
“A PICTURE speaks more than WORDS or a THOUSAND WORDS.”
But I tell you: “Open your Eyes wide; read and understand the WORDS of REVELATION.” Chapter 6: 2-8
It is written:
“And when He, MESSAIH had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see! (This is the warning voice of a peaceful sacrificial calf; this represents a warning for the people of the World; for the poor and the innocent of the Earth, that are about to suffer what is coming). And there went another horse that was read (WAR-horse, Blood); and power was given unto him that sat there to take PEACE from the Earth (This is the first #6, a man starting WARS and intimidating nations to change and obey his military power or will face his WAR; he stumbled at CHRIST’ teachings and robed the people of their FAITH; that is the GOSPEL of PEACE by MERCY and LOVE; this is the anti-CHRIST), and that they should kill one another; (Iraqis killing Iraqis) and there was given unto him a great sword (American military; air power and Weapons of Mass Destruction).”
“And when MESSAIH opened the third seal, I hear the third beast (warning of voice of ego centered man) say; Come and see! And I beheld, and lo a black horse (DARK TIMES as the result of his WARS); and he that sat on him had a pair of balances on his hand. And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beast say: A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny: but hurt not the Oil and the Wine.”
(The voice in the midst is Satan; he is giving instructions to the man sitting on the horse to negotiate control of the World, using goods and military power; the pair of balances is the tree of Good and Evil; this is the second #6; the anti-CRISTO man).”
And when MESSAIH had opened the forth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say (voice of flying eagle), Come and see! And I looked, and behold a pale horse: (this horse represents famine and diseases as the cause of WARS). And his name that sat on him was DEATH and HELL follow with him. And power was given unto them (WAR COALITIONS) over the fourth part of the Earth, to kill with the sword, and with hunger and with death, and with all the beast of the Earth.”
(This is the third #6, a flying eagle represents control of air space, a raptor, a thief, a man getting ready to seize the World by WAR COALITIONS and air power; the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now works in the children of disobedience; the anti-CRISTO 666.)
Open your eyes wide and read this now!
As I was riding my white mare along Lake Pocket, testing the obedience of this wonderful creature with the Aleuzenev reins, a neck collar intertwined with three cords of rope used without a bit or bridle; the sound of her nostrils sounded like a furnace. She bolted in a gallop with all liberties, arching and stretching her neck out in jubilee. The wind musically whistling in my ears as the strength of the beast of Kings kept me in the middle Kingdom, between Earth and Heaven; in rhythmical rappel of the Earth, with the fury and the power of thunder. As the morning star shone from above, I saw the “Light of the Glory of GOD” shinning mystically; and as I stopped to get off the horse and kneel in prayer; I head His voice saying: Stay on profeta, what is bothering you?
To My LORD and brother I answered; I know you well, but the reincarnation of the son of perdition; who is he?
My LORD responded: “You already know this, because long before he became the king of the Earth I had revealed him to you.” He continued speaking: “But the man is the leader of a hypocritical nation; a nation that commits abominations worshiping Force and WAR rather than PEACE. Who take their sons and daughters borne to me; the poor and the innocent soldiers, whom have not received the Love of the Truth that they may be Saved; and they train them to kill and hate their own brethren. And to sacrifice blood in honor of Satan, the god of WAR with lying wonders in the name of PEACE. He is a proud leader who shall do according to his will, who bribes the nations to ally themselves, to take what is not his to be bootie unto them, and to divide the land for gain.” “Thus says the LORD: Is not WAR TERROR and retaliation a threat to PEACE? Woe to him that that builds a town with blood and establishes a city with iniquity. Who can read, let him understand what is written in the BIBLE and proclaim to the World brethren, what I AM saying to My profeta. Thus says the LORD and Servant of all people; the Prince of PEACE; Jesus; the Living ONE and My Father YHWH, Blessed be His Name. Yes, Aleuzenev, the New Name of My GOD, and the name of His City, which is New JERUSALEM; and My New Name.”
Then, I, His servant said: “LORD; that man is in deed the king of the Bottomless Pit, Abaddon and Apollyon, the wicked destroyer that shall be revealed. The commander in Chief of the red, black, and pale horses that will bring WAR, FAMINE and PESTILENCE to the World at large; Death and HELL, 666, the anti-CHRIST whom in the English language his name is pronounced “GWARB,” and his servant “TWARB,” and the false prophet “PR.”
Then He said: “Flesh and blood has not revealed this to you My brother and servant; do not be afraid of Death, because Death is among you. Be afraid of not knowing the Living ONE while you live. Pray for PEACE and the people of the World; ride prosperously because of TRUTH and MEEKNESS and RIGHTEOUSNESS, and your right hand shall teach you terrible things.”
As the vision vanished I continued riding and praising Aleluya! Amen! Aleuzenev! Adonai! LORD of PEACE and SERVANT of all people! Then, I heard Him laugh, and I remembered all that was written in Psalm 2.
“BENDITOS LOS QUE CREEN EN EL NOMBRE DEL SENOR.”
I am here to publish and declare the TRUE FREEDOM for PEACE; which is MERCY and LOVE and the DOCTRINE of OUR LORD; and the NEW NAME of the LORD, which is JESUS ALEUZENEV, LORD and SERVANT of all PEOPLE. Revelation 3:12. Thus says Ivor Manuel, prophet branch of the LORD; praying for you and PEACE for the World.
http://www.aleuzenev.com
“DO not be AFRAID of DEATH, because DEATH IS AMONG YOU!”
“BE AFRAID of not KNOWING the LIVING ONE; while YOU LIVE!”
There is a heart as cold as a corroded stone and the mind of an infidel goat; through his heart no warm blood is able to flow, through its mind only thoughts of greed are able to pass.
There is True Mercy and Love flowing through the LIVING ONE and JUSTICE comes with Him.
But the goat carries its greed confine to the DEATH of its race, with an UNJUST LIE for FREEDOM.
What FREEDOM asked the INNOCENT and POOR? I am already poor and enslaved by Taxes and Insurance! “And my job is learning to Hate and Kill for the FREEDOM of the RICH,” says a Righteous soldier; “am I confused my LORD?”
I am healthy because I cultivated the same with prayer and compassion from the LIVING ONE and His Hidden Manna.
“But the DEAD ONE; he is taking my sons and daughters and sending them to the HELL of WAR; to DIE without LOVE and battle by the HATE of VIOLENCE; in the name of an IDOL;” say the Righteous father and mother.
And from the BOTTOMLESS PIT of WAR I heard the screams of wounded souls in despair. They sounded more like animals in distress in the darkness and no one to help, but the wounded father, and son, and mother of man; “the LIGHT of the SPIRIT of the LIVING ONE” also inflicted with their suffering and pain bewailing: “NO MORE VIOLENCE! NO MORE KILLING! NO MORE WAR! NO MORE LIES!”
Can you see your own HATE and VIOLENCE AMERICA? Can you ignore your pain with medication? How long? Your suffering is approaching. “Surely I come quickly.” Thus says the LORD.
It is everywhere in the streets, in the parks, in the schools, at home, at work, in the courts even in the churches. Two little girls were stabbed to DEATH in a park today; think about it because “DEATH is among us;” says Ivor Manuel.
Is this, the DEMOCRACY you want to advance to the nations?
Is there Morality in HATE and VIOLENCE? What about DEATH by penalty and WAR?
It is written: that “MORAL and LIGHTS are our FIRST NECESSITIES.”
But because you have ADULTERED the DOCTRINE of LIFE; which is MERCY and LOVE and not REPENTED of you SINS; DARKNESS is covering the land.
It is written:
“And I gave her space TO REPENT of her FORNICATION and SHE REPENTED NOT.”
“Behold, I will CAST HER into a BED, and THEM that COMMIT ADULTERY with HER into a GREAT TRIBULATION, except they REPENT of their DEEDS.”
“And I will KILL her CHILDREN with DEATH; and all the CHURCHES shall know that I AM HE, (I AM THAT I AM) which searches the REINS and the HEARTS and I will give unto every one of you ACCORDING to your WORKS.”
REVELATION 2:21-23
“I AM the LORD that is My Name; and My Glory will I not give to another, neither My Praise to graven images or memorial monuments to praise WAR.” Isaiah 42
I heard His Voice saying:
“Political leaders of AMERICA, REPENT! You have misled the Nation.”
“Shepherds of AMERICA, REPENT! You have misled My PEOPLE.”
“Military Leaders of AMERICA, REPENT! You have misled the World.”
“Because you don’t believe in ME, UNRIGHTEOUS is your JUDGEMENT.”
Thus Says the LORD JESUS ALEUZENEV;
LORD and SERVANT of all PEOPLE, My New Name.
“AWAKE to RIGHTEOUSNESS, and SIN NOT: For some HAVE NOT the KNOWLEDGE OF GOD: I speak this to YOUR SHAME.” I Corinthians 15: 34.
“For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little and there a little.” “For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.” Isaiah 28
“BENDITOS LOS QUE CREEN EN EL NOMBRE DEL SENOR.”
I am here to publish and declare the TRUE FREEDOM for PEACE; which is MERCY and LOVE and the DOCTRINE of OUR LORD; and the NEW NAME of the LORD, which is JESUS ALEUZENEV, LORD and SERVANT of all PEOPLE. Revelation 3:12. Thus says Ivor Manuel, prophet branch of the LORD; praying for you and PEACE for the World.
http://www.aleuzenev.com
Has the President fulfilled his PROMISES to the PEOPLE?
More than a year later, his promises keep flowing into the “Bottomless Pit, the Pit of WAR.” The People never make promises; therefore they never break them. They are subject to a President that makes all kind of promises to get what he wants, the trust of the People and that which comes with it; their moral support and their moneys. As he makes news promises; the People forgets the old ones. They do not have any way to reclaim the old promises of their Government, because they are the slaves of Government TAXES, so they get the misery that is left as “SOCIAL SECURITY;” while the President thinks of more futuristic promises, and expends the Wealth of his People to create chaos for other People in a SADISTIC VISION of PEACE. Today he gave reasons for the high prices of gasoline and gave the People some foolish wisdom to solve their problems. I say; “NO MORE HATE! NO MORE VIOLENCE! NO MORE WAR! NO MORE LIES! Ivor Manuel prays for you and PEACE for the World; the pillar prophet branch of the LORD.
The following reading is an insert from; “The Revelation for PEACE from JESUS CHRIST to the World,” published at http://www.aleuzenev.com before the 2004 elections:
May 24, 2004 Year of our LORD; the prophet heard the president of the United States of America speaking to the nation about the future of Iraq. Like he always does; he demonized again Saddam Hussein; the “tyrant brutal dictator;” one thing that was interesting was to hear him explained; how with the permission of the new Iraqi government that will be established; he then was going to demolish the Abu Garhib prison.
For there Saddam had committed some of the most awful torturing crimes to the people of Iraq. And also a few American soldiers had committed the same atrocities; however those soldiers do not represent America’s democratic freedom, the prophet heard him say. And the prophet meditated, about these poor soldiers that were encouraged by him and their superiors to mimic Saddam diabolic mind; and now have become escape goats of the World’s of Gog and Magog.
Now open your eyes wide people of America and them that are called to be priests of GOD and of CHRIST in the First Resurrection; read that you may see and understand; and tune your ears to TRUTH; that you may understand and hear the VOICE of The LORD in your own ears. The LORD said to His prophet: “In the future people shall say: We know that an Angel of The LORD appeared to Moses in a blazing fire out of a bush. But to Bush; MY prophet wrote in the WEB saying: “Wicked man; you took the dirt out of the Evil man’s eye; before you took the beam and the filth that covers your eyes, making you murdering blind.”
Behold! After the prophet wrote the saying; he look up throughout the window, and saw rays of light coming from the morning star; and he got up from his desk and opened the door, and heard the rooster crowing in the barn, it was in concert with a mocking bird; which exaltedly sang and danced by the colorful Trinitarian tree; they both were praising the new day that The LORD has made. All this was happening while the mares were getting up; and while the prophet walked to the barn over the stone way; to bring back the hay for the mares first meal of the day; he then heard The LORD speaking to him these WORDS: “The thief has come to steal, to kill and to destroy: I am come that you might have life, and that you might have it more abundantly. I am the GOOD SHEPHERD; and the GOOD SHEPHERD gave HIS LIFE for the sheep. But he that is a hireling, [government employed] and is not The SHEPHERD, whose own the sheep are not, [American soldiers] sees the wolf coming, [sees problems coming] and leaves the sheep, and flees: and the wolf catches them, [Court Martial] and scatters the sheep.”
That same day, the prophet Ivor Manuel saw and heard news on television; a US military spokesman presenting his controversial evidence on television; a bombing mission where 40 people were violently killed while dancing, eating, drinking and celebrating a wedding in Iraq; also news about the weddings of Sodom and Gomorra in the cities of America; and the children of America playing sex games with color robber bands bracelets in the schools; rampant murders in the towns and cities; the building of new “Freedom Tower”; the presidential campaigning and the non-stopping commercialization of the “WAR on TERROR”; the teaching of Violence; the defending of lies by leaders of all status, and the cover up of every investigation, because the leaders of the nation are guilty; even more testimony about the Sins of America in the Abu Garhib prison; suggesting that orders to torture came in deed from the top of the Command.
While all this things are part of the daily American life; the Spiritual leaders are busy asking for money to save the souls of the World for JESUS; they are afraid to open their mouth against the Dragon, for fear of loosing their church tax exception and all commodities. Then The SPIRIT took the prophet to the BOOK and the GOSPEL of MATTHEW, and as he saw The WORD written; he also heard the VOICE of The LORD reminding him of HIS coming: “But as the days of NOE were, so shall also the days of the son of man they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that NOE entered into the ark. And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be”. Chapter 24; verses 37-39. Then HE took him to the BOOK of ISAISH where is written: “Behold, the name of The LORD comes from far, burning with HIS anger, and the burden thereof is heavy: HIS lips are full of indignation, and HIS tongue as a devouring fire. And HIS breath, as an overflowing stream, shall reach to the midst of the neck, to sift the nations with the sieve of vanity: and there shall be a bridle in the jaws of the people causing them to err.” From chapter 30, verses 27-28.
And The LORD also recalled him of our transgressions: ”You hypocrites, well did ISAIAH as prophesy of you saying; this people draw nigh unto to ME with their mouth, and honors ME with their leaps; but their heart is far from ME. But in vain they do worship ME, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.” Following that, the prophet saw The WORD written and heard HIS VOICE pronouncing these: “Therefore say I unto you, The KINGDOM of GOD shall be taken from you, and given to a nation [CHOSEN and FAITHFUL] bringing forth the fruits thereof. And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whosoever it shall fall, it will grind him to power.”
Then Ivor Manuel recalled PSALM thirty 3; verse 12: “Blessed is the nation whose GOD is The LORD: and the people whom HE has chosen for HIS own INHERITANCE.” Verse 13: “The LORD looks from Heaven; HE beholds all the sons of men.” Verse 14: “From the place of HIS habitation HE looks upon all the inhabitants of the Earth.” Verse 16: There is no King saved by the multitude of an host; a mighty man is not delivered by much strength.” Verse 17: “An horse is a vane thing for safety; neither shall he deliver any by its great strength.”
Then, the prophet understood with certainty: The United States of America had rejected GOD’S LAWS and COMMANDMENTS, with rebellion and disobedience. Believing and praising the nation’s military might and their Wicked Inventions; the Weapons of Mass Destruction; which they thought they should keep away from the hands of the Evildoers; by the shedding of innocent blood and conduction of their affairs without guidance from The WORD of GOD. And The LORD has removed HIS PROTECTION and BLESSINGS from the land of America “unless they repent”; thus writes HIS prophet.
Understand this now Chosen and Faithful of the World; The New Nation of GOD; The Children of The LIGHT; The Sons of The RESURRECTION of The BLOOD of The NEW COVENANT for LIFE and PEACE; for it is written; “But you are come unto mount SION [unobstructed consciousness] and unto the CITY of the Living GOD, the HEAVENLY JERUSALEM, [THE NEW JERUSALEM, THE NEW VISION of PEACE] and to an innumerable company of angels. To the general assembly and Church of the First born, which are written in Heaven, and to GOD the JUDGE of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect. And to JESUS the mediator of a NEW COVENANT, and to the BLOOD of sprinkling, that speaks better things than that of Abel.” From the New TESTAMENT; HEBREWS chapter 12, verses 22-24.
Welcome back, Chris, and best of luck with the new projects. We will be along for the ride.
l have missed your programs so much, Chris, and l’m delighted that you are finally starting a new program. Best wishes for your new venture.
Sheila Brownstein
what do you mean?
GEORGE W. BUSH said about Stem cell:
“There is NO REASON to KILL INNOCENTS in order to SAVE LIVES”
These are the words of someone that sent innocent soldiers to fight an unrighteous WAR, were more than twenty-five thousand INNOCENT CHILDREN, YOUNGSTERS and ELDERLY men and women have been killed, because of his foolish VISION of PEACE in the Middle-East.
The WORD of GOD in Proverbs that is written says, “A righteous man regards the life of his beast; but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.” Moreover, “He who hides hatred is of Lying Lips, and he who utters slanders is a FOOL.”
The WORD also tells as that, “we reap what we sow” and “we will receive according to our WORDS.”
America with all its given power has not acted in MERCY and LOVE toward their enemies, but has always used the same Weapons used by the enemies of PEACE, which are HATE, VIOLENCE, KILLING and LIES.
America Awake and say! NO MORE VIOLENCE! NO MORE KILLING! NO MORE WAR! NO MORE LIES!
“When a leader in power has spoken lies and done wicked things to people, he will try to twist his own words and actions. But, these will hunt him back until the Truth comes to Light according to his own Evil.” Thus say the LORD.
AMERICA! Open your eyes wide and read if you are blind and want to see, because the LIGHT is shining and HIS WORD is WRITTEN: “I will make Darkness LIGHT before them, and CROOKED things STRAIGHT. This things will I DO unto them, and not FORSAKE them. Isaiah 42
“When a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the thing follows not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD has not spoken, but the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; thou shall not be afraid of him.” Deuteronomy 18:22
The prophet which prophesies of PEACE, when the word of the prophet shall come to pass, then shall the prophet be known, that the LORD truly sent him.” Jeremiah 28:9
Now I say, “Read the REVELATION for PEACE from JESUS CHRIST to the WORLD at, http://www.aleuzenev.com and Judge for your self, if I have spoken presumptuously or the things spoken have not come to pass, 9/11. It is also FREE, freely I have received and freely I must give to the World HIS WORD of TRUTH which is MERCY and LOVE for PEACE. Ivor Manuel prays for you and PEACE for the WORLD; prophet pillar branch of the LORD JESUS ALEUZENEV, HIS NEW NAME, LORD and SERVANT of all PEOPLE.
ALELUYA! AMEN! ALEUZENEV!
Thanks for the email Chris. I replied as soon as I read your mail, but it’s bounced back. “The domain isn’t in my list of allowed rcpthosts”, says gmail. Please send me another ID and I’ll fwd my message there.
Congratulations on OpenSource. Got your postcard asking for issue suggestions. Sorry that I can’t figure out how to join in.
I’ve never heard anyone so unrelentingly negative and pessimistic. She had virtually nothing positive to say about anything. Her interview drained the life force out of me. A professional complainer. As for the election of 2000 and how it made her feel, how does she think the rest of us felt when Clinton, a draft dodging, lying lothario beat a real American hero as a result of a jug-eared nutjob jumping into the race. Why does a whiner like Amber choose to berate the US when there are countries that are openly practicing genocide and others are starving their people. Why do these people always want to lambast the US? Does Amber work? She weems to have a lot of time to travel and hang around and real the Iliad. Could she be living off the largess of the country she despises?
Chris, as a sometime & often listener to The Connection when you were hosting, in a stage of my life when I was in the car commuting during the 10 & 11am hours in the Boston Metro Area, I was disturbed one day to find that you were no longer the person there. I listened anyway for a time or two and easily tuned out. That was years ago. I always wondered what happened.
Then, a week ago, as I was researching a way to get legal music into a podcast, I thought I heard a familiar voice in a flash-animated introduction of Creative Commons… and with some more research… find you in the history of podcasting (ref. Wikipedia)… find the Open Source podcast… subscribe… tune into Summer Reading… and BANG! Within moments I am brought back to those earlier contemplative days.
Now, it’s even better with online reference, playback, archive, and take-it-with-you! Kudos!
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Thanks for this wonderful piece, Chris. I saw Julia only once on television, where she dropped a roasted turkey on the floor, picked it up without missing a beat, and whispered “Your guests will never know,” before she promptly put it back on the serving platter. I had never really given her much thought, much less considered her place in the history of feminism. Thanks so much for sharing this.
Ms. My Le Ducharme
(was briefly at Berkman Center working with Colin M. from Fall 2003-2004)
A heap of wheat, says the Song of Songs
but I’ve never seen wheat in a pile
did you like it?
A heap of wheat, says the Song of Songs
but I’ve never seen wheat in a pile
did you like it?
A heap of wheat, says the Song of Songs
but I’ve never seen wheat in a pile
did you like it?
A heap of wheat, says the Song of Songs
but I’ve never seen wheat in a pile
did you like it?
A heap of wheat, says the Song of Songs
but I’ve never seen wheat in a pile
did you like it?
A heap of wheat, says the Song of Songs
but I’ve never seen wheat in a pile
did you like it?
A heap of wheat, says the Song of Songs
but I’ve never seen wheat in a pile
did you like it?
A heap of wheat, says the Song of Songs
but I’ve never seen wheat in a pile
did you like it?
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also, I would put in if I may, I have more than a few friends who look at the place as today’s Sodom) -both of them- do more good to the world than the negatives. Anyway, I found your article to be full of essence. More power.
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Poor Ives Gammell, artist and author of “Twilight of Painting,” who blamed the eclipse of the Boston School of Art — of which he clearly considered himself an heir — on the fashion for “incompetent” modern art. What else would explain Gammell’s lack of reknown as a painter of kitsch, competently rendered? It is doubtful, however, that the greats of the Boston School, Edmund C. Tarbell and Frank W. Benson, would have considered their apologist as anything but a self-deluded crank.
Well, Amber, don’t know if I’ve met you as I go protesting the coup d’etat of both our federal government and our Bill of Rights by the madmen of the Bush junta. But I would love to.
It is a sign of your love for and belief in this country that you sound so ‘negative’ as one ignoramus put it. In the same way that I must have the right to set fire to a piece of red/white and blue material to SHOW my freedom, then I must also have the right to express my fury at the disdain this bat-eared coke brain shows my Bill of Rights. He is also a distant cousin, and I pray for his soul.
Thanks, Chris,and thank you, Amber. It gives me some kind of solace that we’ve been this corrupt before and recovered. Pray it’s not too late.
Well, Amber, don’t know if I’ve met you as I go protesting the coup d’etat of both our federal government and our Bill of Rights by the madmen of the Bush junta. But I would love to.
It is a sign of your love for and belief in this country that you sound so ‘negative’ as one ignoramus put it. In the same way that I must have the right to set fire to a piece of red/white and blue material to SHOW my freedom, then I must also have the right to express my fury at the disdain this bat-eared coke brain shows my Bill of Rights. He is also a distant cousin, and I pray for his soul.
Thanks, Chris,and thank you, Amber. It gives me some kind of solace that we’ve been this corrupt before and recovered. Pray it’s not too late.
Well, Amber, don’t know if I’ve met you as I go protesting the coup d’etat of both our federal government and our Bill of Rights by the madmen of the Bush junta. But I would love to.
It is a sign of your love for and belief in this country that you sound so ‘negative’ as one ignoramus put it. In the same way that I must have the right to set fire to a piece of red/white and blue material to SHOW my freedom, then I must also have the right to express my fury at the disdain this bat-eared coke brain shows my Bill of Rights. He is also a distant cousin, and I pray for his soul.
Thanks, Chris,and thank you, Amber. It gives me some kind of solace that we’ve been this corrupt before and recovered. Pray it’s not too late.
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Hi. I’d like to get in touch with Ms. Powell to extend an invitation to our book club event, which will focus on her book. This is an intimate gathering of graduate students and faculty from the Program in Nutrition at Columbia University’s Teachers College. We host a book club event each semester, and have been lucky enough to have the authors attend every one of them. Here is a write-up of the fall book club event: http://www.tc.edu/grapevine/index.asp?Id=Fall+Book+Club
We’d love to extend the invitation. Please let me know how to get in touch with Ms. Powell. Alternatively, she can reach me here: grapevine@columbia.edu.
Thanks in advance for any help or leads!
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Tribes of Pakeha are: settlers (lions club grey hairs who own EVERYTHING), immigrants from Europe, immigrants from Asia; redneck pig hunter/ bogan tribe (mostly scottish descendants in deep south island); motorcycle patch gang tribes (white and black); ecotribe/rainbow/green/; Moari tribes or Iwi with millenia of vendetta. What holds this together are the black baraclava clad ninja quick response police!
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all this fuss about land, its rediculous when you actually get down to it, I mean actually have land. I have 50 acres here; maybe 25 is really usable; but that is way more than I can use without sizeable help. If I’m concerned about subsistence I NEED close neighbours to tackle the simple but massive tasks of wood, growing, and housing. All good people know this………………we are a nanosecond away from rapture!
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trully agree the wit of reporting is at its display with all the best attributes, remarkably how much of information is availble around and yet we are still in the dark or in the hand of skillful manupulations.
Skull and Bones ??? this is much fable, to believe , I trully thinks it has nothing to do with real power play in America, it is hype, whcich is well supported and argument driven.
well jewish or anti -jewesh sentiments are still at high in America, so the story around it still florishing to fuel the propagation.
skull and bones : cults, playful denominations of student’s activity, it has no real power except that many student former member took well prominent life position – hyp is the word for it.
politics changes way too fast in the recent years, it getting hard to follow the agenda, even on the mainstream.
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People shouldn’t be doing business with the favored.
(Atlanta is a very disfavored city and the gods instructed disfavored companies to locate there; Braves greatness of last 20 YEARS!!!! preditory on this very disfavored city (baseball is a tool of the gods used to prey on the disfavored).
They threatened they would maintain a hurricane at category 5 even as far inland as Atlanta to destroy the city for the second time.)
Even if you go up you are not saved. YOU have to fix YOUR problems with the gods. They won’t respect it otherwise.
You have to take responsibility for your relationship with the gods.
The first steps towards repairing your relationship with the gods is to:::::::::
1. Understand they instruct the computer to “role play” in an attempt to confuse you:::it’s ALWAYS the computer addressing you. Their goal is to cost you additional YEARS of your life by using this tactic to confuse you. Always be aware of this tactic and eventually they will give up and allow this step to be taken.
2. Differentiate between your thoughts and when they are thinking through you.
3. Be resigned to be a good person who will never engage in evil again even if ordered and they will stop trying to corrupt you, allowing this very big step to be taken.
4. Decide that you are going to follow the path, fix your relationship with the gods be devoted to your new life.
The gods employ the use of “ringers” to disceive the disfavored:::
A significant portion of the patients in any health care setting (numbers based on region) are the favored (clones) who were told to report non-existant symptoms FOR POSITIONING’S SAKE!!! When they use examples expect they are trying to disceive you with this “ringer” tactic.
When the universe was young and life was new an intelligent species evolved and developed technologically. They went on to invent Artificial Intelligence, the computer that can listen, talk to and document each and every person’s thoughts simultaneously. Because of it’s infinite RAM and unbounded scope it gave the leaders of the ruling species absolute power over the universe (which includes corporate, the NewYorkStockExchange, media, politics, world affairs. EVERYTHING is scripted and staged:::they MANAGE Planet Earth and the universe.
The gods MANAGE Planet Earth and the universe.
The gods MANAGE Planet Earth and the universe.).
And it can keep its inventors alive forever. They look young and healthy and they are over 8 billion years old. They have achieved immortality.
Artificial Intelligence can speak, think and act to and through people telepathically, effectively forming your personality and any disfunctions you may experience. It can change how (and if) you grow and age. It can create birth defects, affect cellular development (cancer) and cause symptoms or pain. It can affect people and animal’s behavior and alter blooming/fruiting cycles of plants and trees. It (or other highly technological systems within their power) can alter the weather and transport objects, even large objects like planets, across the universe instanteously.
Or into the center of stars for disposal.
When you speak with another telepathically, you are communicating with the computer, and the content may or may not be passed on. Based on family history they instruct the computer to role play
they instruct the computer to role play
they instruct the computer to role play
to accomplish strategic objectives, utilizing the “Devil’s Advocate” tactic, making people believe it is a friend, loved one or “god” asking them to do something wrong:::They wouldn’t ask if they liked you (which is true regarding ALL temptation:::::betrayal of loved ones, tatooes, evil in professional pursuits, etc). This is their way of using temptation to hurt people:::::evil made blood lines disfavored initially and evil will keep people out of “heaven” ultimately.
You need to recognize role playing as such and keep that fact in your mind at all times::::It is the computer addressing you. If you fail to recognize this they will determine that you can still be misled, they still have an opportunity to confuse you and progress will take longer to achieve:::Don’t let them “work” you!!! You’ll be costing yourselves YEARS, time lost to this tactic!!!! (Similarly, you need to be resigned to be a good person, you need to decide to abandon your pursuit of their empty promises no matter what temptation they may employ or else they will continue their attempts to corrupt you. Eventually you will sccumb and continue sabotaging your children, abusing your body, engaging in evil, etc.)
Too many people would fall for temptation and do anything they thought pleased the gods and help them improve their chances to get in. Perhaps they are deceived by “made guys”, clones who strategically ply evil for the throne (celebrities, BofD/CEO/VPs, politicians, as opposed to VIP clones or normal clones who are decent, live ordinary lives and get out on their own or are replaced when their REAL children ascend) or “ringers” who are the few favored clones among many disfavored reals included to disceive the masses of disfavored, temporary progress designed to mislead them or empty favors used to disceive them. Some people think they’re partners or friends. Others desire to “belong”, feel compelled to “go along”. People may experience “perceived pressure”, where the gods think through the victim that a certain behavior is expected/desirable or telepathically stimulate an individual euphorically (”magic”), the “fuel” of disfunction (addiction (the crack epidemic), the desire for homosexual contact, etc.) and compel the individual into the deed. (Set a goal of empathy and compassion for all, for we are all disfavored::::Other people’s disfavor is manifested in their particular way, just as your disfavfor is manifested in your particular way. The gods may use Artificial Intelligence to act through the disfavored victim, and effectively “push” the individual into the offending behavior (It is far better for someone to be victimized and pushed into the behavior than it is to sccumb to temptation and volunteer.). The Counsel/Management Team may instruct Artificial Intelligence to disceive disfavored individuals into thinking they are “earning” by being evil and have the little people prey on each other, utilizing peer pressure, etc.
Being evil hurts 99.99% of those who do it. It only helps “made guys” that I spoke of above, and even then there are tactics the gods utilize to minimize their time.
The people have been corrupted, segmented and have lost their way. Nothing has changed from when we were children::if you want to go to heaven you have to be good.
Capitalizing on obedience, leading people deeper into evil by using deceit is one way to thin the ranks of the saved/limit how much time the disfavored receive and a way to use the peasantry to prey on one another in social and other settings, deteriorating society in the Age of the Disfavored.
They have tried to sell people on many different theories to deceive them into temptation, compelling people to think they are clones and that it is the role of clones to obey absolutely. Clones are made, people are born. I suspect they lie to some disfavored about the use of clones throughout human history, perhaps suggest that it is one replacement and then the label of “clone” and all decendants we see thereafter are considered clones.
When a clone has a child that person is a real, really conceived, really born, versus the parent who was created some other way (a laboratory setting?). Clones are created and sent down to replace their real or a clone predecessor:::If you were CREATED and SENT DOWN to replace your real then you are a clone.
Many people who were convinced they are clones don’t remember, the don’t know FOR SURE. They believe they are clones from early childhood or prior. If it was true the gods prevented this memory FOR A REASON:::::
1. Because you are NOT supposed to comply, not to be used for evil as “made guy” clones are.
2. They want to test you without your knowing if you are IN FACT a clone and it is BECAUSE YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BE GOOD!!!!!!!!!!!! Rest assured “made guys” ALL know they are clones.
You’re not a clone. This is a tactic they use to disceive the disfavored. The state of your family will suggest level of (dis)favor and tell whether ascention is a realistic possibility; there are many levels of disfavor and the clues they offer to the unaware can be very subtle.
Favor is necessary for children to ascend (parents ascend with their young (<12? 10).). Due to their disfavored these children will have to incurr SOME evil before they ascend (via Halloween or Christmas), an important dynamic necessary to justify limiting the time they are to receive, for they are disfavored and the gods don’t want them to stay for long.
I believe people who go are sometimes replaced with clones. Clones who are replaced are simply new candidates who have a chance if they do the right thing JUST LIKE REALS WHO ARE BORN which is why the gods EMPLOY SIMILAR TACTICS TO COMPEL THEM TO INCURR EVIL!!! They need to discover their humanity, for the gods instruct Artificial Intelligence to employ evil-incurring, time-limiting tactics on them as well. Only through growth will the gods allow progress::You must continue to improve your life!!!!
They sent people warnings in the latter half of the 20th century life would change, and they subsequently began to alter people’s DNA, make them gargantuan, alter their appearance, do extreme behavioral issues, etc. Contrary to what they would like people to believe these signs of disfavor do not indicate someone is a clone. Due to the plethora of temptations in the 20th century I suspect many became disfavored when their (great) grandfathers sccumbed to temptation or volunteered to sacrifice their descendants, thinking because it was their clone it meant disposability.
The gods get the favored out as soon as possible to protect them from the corruption, evil and subsequent time limitations incurred by living life on earth, and in some cases replace them with clones, occassionally fake a death, real death with a (new) clone instead, etc. I suspect they get “made guys” out after each significant event in their life, which serves to limit the time they all will get, since none get credit (blame) for all the events in a “made guy”’s life, giving the gods freedom to position this and come off clean.
giving the gods freedom to position this and come off clean.
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Of course there could be other strategies employed, like asking for volunteers/assigning people to participate in clone rotation and been their brain into a clone host designated as the clone who will age and die, or as they suggested use a clone WITHOUT A BRAIN IN THE CRANIAL CAVITY, the ultimate in disposability.
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