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	<title>Comments on: The argument for gold OA support</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/pamphlet/2009/06/11/the-argument-for-gold-oa-support/</link>
	<description>on scholarly communication</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 19:13:07 -0500</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: &#187; Commercial publishers aren&#8217;t the bad guys The Occasional Pamphlet</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/pamphlet/2009/06/11/the-argument-for-gold-oa-support/comment-page-1/#comment-69</link>
		<dc:creator>&#187; Commercial publishers aren&#8217;t the bad guys The Occasional Pamphlet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jul 2009 18:15:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/pamphlet/?p=11#comment-69</guid>
		<description>[...] open-access publication charges, so as to &#8220;level the playing field&#8221; (as I&#8217;ve recommended elsewhere) disadvantages &#8220;a third [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] open-access publication charges, so as to &#8220;level the playing field&#8221; (as I&#8217;ve recommended elsewhere) disadvantages &#8220;a third [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Richards</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/pamphlet/2009/06/11/the-argument-for-gold-oa-support/comment-page-1/#comment-14</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Richards</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Jun 2009 15:32:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/pamphlet/?p=11#comment-14</guid>
		<description>Prof. Shieber:

Thank you for this eloquent and persuasive post.  If I understand correctly, you are making an empirical argument: that in your experience, faculties will not vote to implement Green OA unless institutional support for Gold OA is also implemented.  That is, you are making the empirical claim that a commitment to institutional support for Gold OA is a necessary condition of persuading faculties to implement Green OA.  Is that accurate?  If it is, I would think that this empirical claim could be verified empirically, say, by surveying the faculties that have not implemented Green OA respecting what they consider to be the necessary conditions for persuading them to implement Green OA.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Prof. Shieber:</p>
<p>Thank you for this eloquent and persuasive post.  If I understand correctly, you are making an empirical argument: that in your experience, faculties will not vote to implement Green OA unless institutional support for Gold OA is also implemented.  That is, you are making the empirical claim that a commitment to institutional support for Gold OA is a necessary condition of persuading faculties to implement Green OA.  Is that accurate?  If it is, I would think that this empirical claim could be verified empirically, say, by surveying the faculties that have not implemented Green OA respecting what they consider to be the necessary conditions for persuading them to implement Green OA.</p>
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		<title>By: Stevan Harnad</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/pamphlet/2009/06/11/the-argument-for-gold-oa-support/comment-page-1/#comment-13</link>
		<dc:creator>Stevan Harnad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 21:20:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/pamphlet/?p=11#comment-13</guid>
		<description>THE ARGUMENT AGAINST (PREMATURE) GOLD OA SUPPORT

I have written a response to
http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/pamphlet/2009/06/11/the-argument-for-gold-oa-support/
&quot;The argument for gold OA support&quot; by Stuart Shieber.

The full response is at:
http://openaccess.eprints.org/index.php?/archives/590-guid.html &quot;The
Argument Against (Premature) Gold OA Support&quot;

Here is just the summary:

What is needed in order to provide universal OA as quickly and surely
as possible is for universities (and funders) to mandate that their
own researchers provide (Green) OA by depositing their articles in
their institution&#039;s OA repository immediately upon acceptance for
publication. It is both a strategic and a conceptual mistake to think
that money has to be spent at this time on paying for publishing in
Gold OA journals. Gold OA journals&#039; time will come if and when
universal Green OA makes subscriptions unsustainable. Then publishers
will cut costs and downsize to just providing the service of managing
peer review, paid for by institutions out of their windfall
subscription cancellation savings. Universities and funders should not
be either distracted or deterred from mandating Green OA now by
thinking that they first need to provide funds to pay for Gold OA.
(Once they have adopted a Green OA mandate, this is no longer a
distraction or deterrent and they can of course do whatever they like
with their spare cash.)

(1) Any needless cost at all associated with adopting and implementing
a Green OA mandate is a deterrent to arriving at consensus on
adoption, not an incentive.

(2) Minimal costs for Harvard U are not necessarily minimal for HaveNot U.

(3) The way to explain the possible eventual transition to universal
Gold OA is via its causal antecedent: universal Green OA.

(4) The way to allay worries about Learned Society Publishers’ future
after universal Green OA is to explain the simple, straightforward
relation between institutional subscription collapse and institutional
subscription cancellation savings, and how it releases the funds to
continue paying for publication via Gold OA. (And remind faculty that
if their institutions really want to keep subsidizing Learned Society
publishers&#039; &quot;good works&quot; (conferences, scholarships, lobbying) as they
are now through subscription-fees, they can certainly continue to do
so through publication fees too, as a surcharge, on the Gold OA model,
if they wish.)

(5) Reserve any plans for promoting pre-emptive payment of Gold OA
fees for those institutions that have already mandated Green OA (and
preferably only after we are further along the road from 85 mandates
to 10,000!).

(6) Pre-emptive payment for Gold OA before universal Green OA just
retards and distracts from providing and mandating Green OA. Moreover,
it is incoherent and does not scale (&quot;universalize&quot;): It is like an
Escher drawing, leading nowhere, even though it seems to.

Stevan Harnad</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>THE ARGUMENT AGAINST (PREMATURE) GOLD OA SUPPORT</p>
<p>I have written a response to<br />
<a href="http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/pamphlet/2009/06/11/the-argument-for-gold-oa-support/" rel="nofollow">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/pamphlet/2009/06/11/the-argument-for-gold-oa-support/</a><br />
&#8220;The argument for gold OA support&#8221; by Stuart Shieber.</p>
<p>The full response is at:<br />
<a href="http://openaccess.eprints.org/index.php?/archives/590-guid.html" rel="nofollow">http://openaccess.eprints.org/index.php?/archives/590-guid.html</a> &#8220;The<br />
Argument Against (Premature) Gold OA Support&#8221;</p>
<p>Here is just the summary:</p>
<p>What is needed in order to provide universal OA as quickly and surely<br />
as possible is for universities (and funders) to mandate that their<br />
own researchers provide (Green) OA by depositing their articles in<br />
their institution&#8217;s OA repository immediately upon acceptance for<br />
publication. It is both a strategic and a conceptual mistake to think<br />
that money has to be spent at this time on paying for publishing in<br />
Gold OA journals. Gold OA journals&#8217; time will come if and when<br />
universal Green OA makes subscriptions unsustainable. Then publishers<br />
will cut costs and downsize to just providing the service of managing<br />
peer review, paid for by institutions out of their windfall<br />
subscription cancellation savings. Universities and funders should not<br />
be either distracted or deterred from mandating Green OA now by<br />
thinking that they first need to provide funds to pay for Gold OA.<br />
(Once they have adopted a Green OA mandate, this is no longer a<br />
distraction or deterrent and they can of course do whatever they like<br />
with their spare cash.)</p>
<p>(1) Any needless cost at all associated with adopting and implementing<br />
a Green OA mandate is a deterrent to arriving at consensus on<br />
adoption, not an incentive.</p>
<p>(2) Minimal costs for Harvard U are not necessarily minimal for HaveNot U.</p>
<p>(3) The way to explain the possible eventual transition to universal<br />
Gold OA is via its causal antecedent: universal Green OA.</p>
<p>(4) The way to allay worries about Learned Society Publishers’ future<br />
after universal Green OA is to explain the simple, straightforward<br />
relation between institutional subscription collapse and institutional<br />
subscription cancellation savings, and how it releases the funds to<br />
continue paying for publication via Gold OA. (And remind faculty that<br />
if their institutions really want to keep subsidizing Learned Society<br />
publishers&#8217; &#8220;good works&#8221; (conferences, scholarships, lobbying) as they<br />
are now through subscription-fees, they can certainly continue to do<br />
so through publication fees too, as a surcharge, on the Gold OA model,<br />
if they wish.)</p>
<p>(5) Reserve any plans for promoting pre-emptive payment of Gold OA<br />
fees for those institutions that have already mandated Green OA (and<br />
preferably only after we are further along the road from 85 mandates<br />
to 10,000!).</p>
<p>(6) Pre-emptive payment for Gold OA before universal Green OA just<br />
retards and distracts from providing and mandating Green OA. Moreover,<br />
it is incoherent and does not scale (&#8221;universalize&#8221;): It is like an<br />
Escher drawing, leading nowhere, even though it seems to.</p>
<p>Stevan Harnad</p>
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		<title>By: Links 12/06/2009: Hadopi Down &#124; Boycott Novell</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/pamphlet/2009/06/11/the-argument-for-gold-oa-support/comment-page-1/#comment-12</link>
		<dc:creator>Links 12/06/2009: Hadopi Down &#124; Boycott Novell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 10:15:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/pamphlet/?p=11#comment-12</guid>
		<description>[...] The argument for gold OA support Are green and gold open access independent of each other? In particular, is worry about gold OA a waste of time, and are expenditures on it a waste of money? Stevan Harnad has brought up this issue in response to a recent talk I gave at Cal Tech, and in particular my remarks about a potential “open access compact”. I will take this opportunity to explain why I think that the answer to both questions is “no”. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The argument for gold OA support Are green and gold open access independent of each other? In particular, is worry about gold OA a waste of time, and are expenditures on it a waste of money? Stevan Harnad has brought up this issue in response to a recent talk I gave at Cal Tech, and in particular my remarks about a potential “open access compact”. I will take this opportunity to explain why I think that the answer to both questions is “no”. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: leo waaijers</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/pamphlet/2009/06/11/the-argument-for-gold-oa-support/comment-page-1/#comment-11</link>
		<dc:creator>leo waaijers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 08:24:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/pamphlet/?p=11#comment-11</guid>
		<description>I think that the debate should taken one step further. Not only Green and Gold could cohabitat but they can be integrated in a reciprocally stimulating approach. The idea is that funders (universities included) should not only mandate OA but at the same time stimulate the market for non-proprietary peer review systems. See: http://www.ariadne.ac.uk/issue59/waaijers/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that the debate should taken one step further. Not only Green and Gold could cohabitat but they can be integrated in a reciprocally stimulating approach. The idea is that funders (universities included) should not only mandate OA but at the same time stimulate the market for non-proprietary peer review systems. See: <a href="http://www.ariadne.ac.uk/issue59/waaijers/" rel="nofollow">http://www.ariadne.ac.uk/issue59/waaijers/</a></p>
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		<title>By: The Merits of Gold Open Access &#171; Open Education News</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/pamphlet/2009/06/11/the-argument-for-gold-oa-support/comment-page-1/#comment-10</link>
		<dc:creator>The Merits of Gold Open Access &#171; Open Education News</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 05:03:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/pamphlet/?p=11#comment-10</guid>
		<description>[...] 12, 2009 &#183; No Comments  Stuart Shieber at The Occasional Pamphlet argues the merits of &#8220;gold OA&#8221; in a recent blog post. Gold open access can be defined as the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] 12, 2009 &middot; No Comments  Stuart Shieber at The Occasional Pamphlet argues the merits of &#8220;gold OA&#8221; in a recent blog post. Gold open access can be defined as the [...]</p>
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