Had you been talking about the average supporter of Bin Laden, perhaps you would have a point. However you were referring to one person in one article, and his views were pretty well stated — at least by him. It was when you started interpreting his views that the problems cropped up. And I suspect “Tariq’s” a lot closer to the average notional bin Laden supporter than the picture you painted above.

By the way, it is possible to support someone without supporting their entire agenda. Does bin Laden oppose the West? Yep. Do the Arabs have legitimate complaints about the way they’ve been treated by the West? Yep. Therefore they will nominally support bin Laden, overlooking for the nonce some of his more unlovely characteristics (of which he has plenty).

When push comes to shove, I doubt there are any more Arabs who wish for the death of Americans than there are Americans (and I’m certain you know the type) who talk about “nuking the ragheads.” Odd, how such folks are forgotten in these discussions.

Will: I’m not sure that the average supporter of Osama bin-Laden wishes to settle his dispute with the West with a vote. According to http://www.infoplease.com/spot/osamabinladen.html, “In 1998 bin Laden called for all Americans and Jews, including children, to be killed.” The guy in the New Yorker article might not be the best example of this seemingly contradictory triangle (US immoral and malevolent; war to death; US will not kill people en masse) but it seems to be out there in our enemies’ minds and public statements.

Well, now some people need to be grateful to US because they are not being nuked by US. Oh my Evolution, Oh my Physics Laws, what has happened to this world. This coming from a nerd? I guess, I should be grateful to Russia, India, Pakistan, Israel, UK, Germany, etc., as well. At these times, I feel that human beings are really a waste and wish some asteroids hit us or that US burn all the fossil fuel in a year so that the whole world would submerge.

It’s pretty clear that “Tariq,” is talking about a clash of civilizations in terms of voting, and how western-style democracy would play out in the middle east, not an actual war. Most of his section is devoted to the political and social fabric of his coutnry, and from this, you built an argument that I can’t find anywhere in the section. I smell a wet straw man. I’ve re-read the section three times, and no where in it do I find where he claims or implies the West is “completely immoral,” (Greenspun’s phrase) for example.

Interesting that Mr. Ibrahim can complete a comprenesive moral and intellectual analysis of a culture in the 3 or 4 semesters he spent teaching here. Being a Marxist, where everything is simplified, I’m surprised it took him so long. The best part are his comments on “the genuine stupidity of the normal American citizen” as he hails from a nation with a 45% illiteracy rate. I guess it takes one to know one…

Despite his ugly way of thinking, Ibrahim is very right: if we hire him to teach in our schools or send the kids to learn from him, we are indeed so very stupid. But I’ll grant him a point: looking at lifestyle and values of some of his fellow Californians, even Ibrahim’s version of Islam can make a compelling argument on moral values by comparison.