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	<title>Comments on: The $1000 HP desktop tower running Windows Vista</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/philg/2008/01/30/the-1000-hp-desktop-tower-running-windows-vista/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/philg/2008/01/30/the-1000-hp-desktop-tower-running-windows-vista/</link>
	<description>A posting every day; an interesting idea every three months...</description>
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		<title>By: Barry</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/philg/2008/01/30/the-1000-hp-desktop-tower-running-windows-vista/comment-page-1/#comment-74155</link>
		<dc:creator>Barry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:33:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/philg/2008/01/30/the-1000-hp-desktop-tower-running-windo#comment-74155</guid>
		<description>BTW, some companies are still selling computers with Windows XP installed - Dell and Lenovo, at the least.  I bought a Lenovo laptop with Windows XP pro.  It came with a dead battery, and the various codes and SN&#039;s on the computer and battery were written with small font, black letters on medium-gray background, making them almost impossible to read.  However, after an hour on the phone we figured it out, and they shipped me a working battery.

Another vote for a Mac.  

With Bootcamp and Parallels, it soundsl like only niche issues are left (I&#039;m still one of them, wanting to run SAS).  Certain things, like an FAA stupidity requiring IE, are work-arounds which you could do from another computer.  That&#039;d cost  you the odd hour, but it&#039;s clear that you can have many hours sucked out of your soul by non-working PC&#039;s, so you&#039;re probably better off.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BTW, some companies are still selling computers with Windows XP installed &#8211; Dell and Lenovo, at the least.  I bought a Lenovo laptop with Windows XP pro.  It came with a dead battery, and the various codes and SN&#8217;s on the computer and battery were written with small font, black letters on medium-gray background, making them almost impossible to read.  However, after an hour on the phone we figured it out, and they shipped me a working battery.</p>
<p>Another vote for a Mac.  </p>
<p>With Bootcamp and Parallels, it soundsl like only niche issues are left (I&#8217;m still one of them, wanting to run SAS).  Certain things, like an FAA stupidity requiring IE, are work-arounds which you could do from another computer.  That&#8217;d cost  you the odd hour, but it&#8217;s clear that you can have many hours sucked out of your soul by non-working PC&#8217;s, so you&#8217;re probably better off.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/philg/2008/01/30/the-1000-hp-desktop-tower-running-windows-vista/comment-page-1/#comment-71447</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Feb 2008 21:12:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/philg/2008/01/30/the-1000-hp-desktop-tower-running-windo#comment-71447</guid>
		<description>Phil, I think you&#039;re missing what a few people are alluding to: buy a Mac and then run Windows--and *only* windows--on it.  IOW, use a Mac as if it&#039;s a PC.  (I have a friend who is doing this right now with a Mac mini purchased for his Windows-using wife.)  Booting and running Windows on a Mac is supported by Apple.  They provide the drivers and everything.  You&#039;d only need a little help with the initial setup, after which it&#039;d behave just like a Windows PC...only it&#039;d have no crapware, no PS/2 ports, a DVI port, a USB mouse and keyboard, etc. :)  (Yes, you&#039;d have to buy a separate copy of Windows, but &quot;OEM&quot; copies can be had for less than $100.  It&#039;s well worth the money.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Phil, I think you&#8217;re missing what a few people are alluding to: buy a Mac and then run Windows&#8211;and *only* windows&#8211;on it.  IOW, use a Mac as if it&#8217;s a PC.  (I have a friend who is doing this right now with a Mac mini purchased for his Windows-using wife.)  Booting and running Windows on a Mac is supported by Apple.  They provide the drivers and everything.  You&#8217;d only need a little help with the initial setup, after which it&#8217;d behave just like a Windows PC&#8230;only it&#8217;d have no crapware, no PS/2 ports, a DVI port, a USB mouse and keyboard, etc. <img src='http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/philg/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />   (Yes, you&#8217;d have to buy a separate copy of Windows, but &#8220;OEM&#8221; copies can be had for less than $100.  It&#8217;s well worth the money.)</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel Taylor</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/philg/2008/01/30/the-1000-hp-desktop-tower-running-windows-vista/comment-page-1/#comment-71404</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Taylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Feb 2008 07:51:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/philg/2008/01/30/the-1000-hp-desktop-tower-running-windo#comment-71404</guid>
		<description>I do see your points. If she has another XP machine and her friends can&#039;t help her with Mac OS, Windows probably makes sense.

Honestly? I would try installing XP (Vista will be as foreign to her as a Mac) and if that didn&#039;t work the first time, return the thing and help her get another brand. I admire your patience. I probably would have returned the thing about mid way through your experience.

I guess it&#039;s true that no good deed goes unpunished :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do see your points. If she has another XP machine and her friends can&#8217;t help her with Mac OS, Windows probably makes sense.</p>
<p>Honestly? I would try installing XP (Vista will be as foreign to her as a Mac) and if that didn&#8217;t work the first time, return the thing and help her get another brand. I admire your patience. I probably would have returned the thing about mid way through your experience.</p>
<p>I guess it&#8217;s true that no good deed goes unpunished <img src='http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/philg/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: philg</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/philg/2008/01/30/the-1000-hp-desktop-tower-running-windows-vista/comment-page-1/#comment-71393</link>
		<dc:creator>philg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Feb 2008 06:28:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/philg/2008/01/30/the-1000-hp-desktop-tower-running-windo#comment-71393</guid>
		<description>Daniel:  I&#039;m not sure what people send her that she can&#039;t open, but I know that she is never going to be an expert user of any operating system (nor should any normal person want to be!).  Folks in other comments have suggested that she get a Macintosh and then discipline herself to include file extensions explicitly when sending attachments.  I wouldn&#039;t expect her to retrain herself in this manner.  Nor would I expect her to be able to remember commands in two operating systems simultaneously (her laptop is a fully functional Windows XP machine).  Most of her computer support comes from friends who drop by her house.  None of these people, including myself, know how to use a Macintosh.  All of them know how to do basic sysadmin/network admin on Windows.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Daniel:  I&#8217;m not sure what people send her that she can&#8217;t open, but I know that she is never going to be an expert user of any operating system (nor should any normal person want to be!).  Folks in other comments have suggested that she get a Macintosh and then discipline herself to include file extensions explicitly when sending attachments.  I wouldn&#8217;t expect her to retrain herself in this manner.  Nor would I expect her to be able to remember commands in two operating systems simultaneously (her laptop is a fully functional Windows XP machine).  Most of her computer support comes from friends who drop by her house.  None of these people, including myself, know how to use a Macintosh.  All of them know how to do basic sysadmin/network admin on Windows.</p>
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		<title>By: Lisa</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/philg/2008/01/30/the-1000-hp-desktop-tower-running-windows-vista/comment-page-1/#comment-71379</link>
		<dc:creator>Lisa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Feb 2008 03:57:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/philg/2008/01/30/the-1000-hp-desktop-tower-running-windo#comment-71379</guid>
		<description>Re: document compatblity... it&#039;s the mac user&#039;s fault, they forgot to click the box that says &quot;send windows friendly attachments&quot;.

I have a few macs and working for one of the one of the wintel manufacturers at work I have to use their computers.  I send my self word and excel docs from home and it all works fine both from the mac to pc and vice versa.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: document compatblity&#8230; it&#8217;s the mac user&#8217;s fault, they forgot to click the box that says &#8220;send windows friendly attachments&#8221;.</p>
<p>I have a few macs and working for one of the one of the wintel manufacturers at work I have to use their computers.  I send my self word and excel docs from home and it all works fine both from the mac to pc and vice versa.</p>
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		<title>By: MarkG</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/philg/2008/01/30/the-1000-hp-desktop-tower-running-windows-vista/comment-page-1/#comment-71375</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Feb 2008 03:23:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/philg/2008/01/30/the-1000-hp-desktop-tower-running-windo#comment-71375</guid>
		<description>Sorry for the length of this post but I&#039;ve tried to include all the hints your friend might need so as to make choosing between a new Mac or a PC easier. 

Regarding file conversion, users with the older (now obsolete) &quot;Classic&quot; operating system, Mac OS 9 or earlier, would often not be aware that Windows users expect and need 3 letter file name suffixes to identify the file type, so as to automatically associate the file with a program on thier computer and open it. (Since this was not a Mac convention until Mac OS X).

On Windows, when your friend receives an unknown file type she should just try renaming it with the most likely 3 letter filename extension for the program she is hoping will open it e.g. .doc for Word etc. Most often this will work. She could also ask her contacts using older Macs to name thier files this way before emailing them or use a file conversion utility like the one mentioned in a post above. 

Here is a useful reference (to send to your friend to look up file type codes) obtained by doing a simple Google search: http://www.fileinfo.net/common.php

If she uses MS Office she should have no problems sending files to other Office uses whether she is on Windows or Mac provided that the recipient is using a recent enough version of Office to recognise the file type. (Such as Office 98 onwards).

The suggestion to use pdf is fine if the intention is that the recipient does NOT edit the document. Sending email attachments from Mac OS X using the Mail program is usually safe for Windows recipients if the user checks the &quot;Send Windows Friendly Attachments&quot; checkbox in the &quot;Open&quot; window when selecting the file to attach. This preference can also be found in Mail by going to Edit &gt; Attachments &gt; Always Send Windows Friendly Attachments.

Email between Macs and PCs should not be a problem if she can follow the guidelines above. The main problem she will have on a Mac will be using older websites that are not written to work with anything but Win IE. 

(Some of which are banking sites. In such a case she could write to the bank informing them that because their online banking enforces the use of a Microsoft based computer she is going to change banks to support competition). 

The best way to have Win IE for such an event is to run it in Win XP in a virtual environment such as Parallels or Fusion on her new Intel Mac. Even a cheap Intel Mac mini (with enough 3rd party RAM on board) will run Windows XP well and output to DVI. A used or near new 2GHz 2GB mini on Ebay will be under $600 and will retain a fair share of its value when it comes time to upgrade later. This is a common way to try Mac OS X before commiting to a major investment.

Some people link their new Mac with their old PC peripherals via a KVM (Keyboard, Video, Mouse) switch for the period while they are working between both computers and wish to share the same peripherals between them. Macs will work with nearly all USB PC mice and natively support 2 buttons without extra drivers. To use more than 2 buttons you will need to get the Mac drivers from the mouse manufacturer.

When using a Mac for the first time your friend may need to adapt to the key combinations used. The most important changes are &quot;Command&quot; (the Apple key) replaces &quot;Control&quot; in Windows key combinations, &quot;Option&quot; = &quot;Alt&quot;, and &quot;Control&quot; click is the equivalent of a &quot;Right&quot; click. &quot;Shift&quot; is still shift and &quot;Tab&quot; is still tab and &quot;Command-Tab&quot; = &quot;Alt-Tab&quot;.

With a half hour invested in learning these adaptations you friend can then freely choose her new computer based on what works best for her.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry for the length of this post but I&#8217;ve tried to include all the hints your friend might need so as to make choosing between a new Mac or a PC easier. </p>
<p>Regarding file conversion, users with the older (now obsolete) &#8220;Classic&#8221; operating system, Mac OS 9 or earlier, would often not be aware that Windows users expect and need 3 letter file name suffixes to identify the file type, so as to automatically associate the file with a program on thier computer and open it. (Since this was not a Mac convention until Mac OS X).</p>
<p>On Windows, when your friend receives an unknown file type she should just try renaming it with the most likely 3 letter filename extension for the program she is hoping will open it e.g. .doc for Word etc. Most often this will work. She could also ask her contacts using older Macs to name thier files this way before emailing them or use a file conversion utility like the one mentioned in a post above. </p>
<p>Here is a useful reference (to send to your friend to look up file type codes) obtained by doing a simple Google search: <a href="http://www.fileinfo.net/common.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.fileinfo.net/common.php</a></p>
<p>If she uses MS Office she should have no problems sending files to other Office uses whether she is on Windows or Mac provided that the recipient is using a recent enough version of Office to recognise the file type. (Such as Office 98 onwards).</p>
<p>The suggestion to use pdf is fine if the intention is that the recipient does NOT edit the document. Sending email attachments from Mac OS X using the Mail program is usually safe for Windows recipients if the user checks the &#8220;Send Windows Friendly Attachments&#8221; checkbox in the &#8220;Open&#8221; window when selecting the file to attach. This preference can also be found in Mail by going to Edit &gt; Attachments &gt; Always Send Windows Friendly Attachments.</p>
<p>Email between Macs and PCs should not be a problem if she can follow the guidelines above. The main problem she will have on a Mac will be using older websites that are not written to work with anything but Win IE. </p>
<p>(Some of which are banking sites. In such a case she could write to the bank informing them that because their online banking enforces the use of a Microsoft based computer she is going to change banks to support competition). </p>
<p>The best way to have Win IE for such an event is to run it in Win XP in a virtual environment such as Parallels or Fusion on her new Intel Mac. Even a cheap Intel Mac mini (with enough 3rd party RAM on board) will run Windows XP well and output to DVI. A used or near new 2GHz 2GB mini on Ebay will be under $600 and will retain a fair share of its value when it comes time to upgrade later. This is a common way to try Mac OS X before commiting to a major investment.</p>
<p>Some people link their new Mac with their old PC peripherals via a KVM (Keyboard, Video, Mouse) switch for the period while they are working between both computers and wish to share the same peripherals between them. Macs will work with nearly all USB PC mice and natively support 2 buttons without extra drivers. To use more than 2 buttons you will need to get the Mac drivers from the mouse manufacturer.</p>
<p>When using a Mac for the first time your friend may need to adapt to the key combinations used. The most important changes are &#8220;Command&#8221; (the Apple key) replaces &#8220;Control&#8221; in Windows key combinations, &#8220;Option&#8221; = &#8220;Alt&#8221;, and &#8220;Control&#8221; click is the equivalent of a &#8220;Right&#8221; click. &#8220;Shift&#8221; is still shift and &#8220;Tab&#8221; is still tab and &#8220;Command-Tab&#8221; = &#8220;Alt-Tab&#8221;.</p>
<p>With a half hour invested in learning these adaptations you friend can then freely choose her new computer based on what works best for her.</p>
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		<title>By: Marc Salzberg</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/philg/2008/01/30/the-1000-hp-desktop-tower-running-windows-vista/comment-page-1/#comment-71360</link>
		<dc:creator>Marc Salzberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Feb 2008 00:55:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/philg/2008/01/30/the-1000-hp-desktop-tower-running-windo#comment-71360</guid>
		<description>Often the reason people with Windows machines can&#039;t open Mac files is the lack of an extension.  

You have to make sure that someone sending a Word document from a Mac includes a .doc extension, or an .xls extension for an Excel spreadsheet.  Without the extension, Windows doesn&#039;t know which application to open the file with.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Often the reason people with Windows machines can&#8217;t open Mac files is the lack of an extension.  </p>
<p>You have to make sure that someone sending a Word document from a Mac includes a .doc extension, or an .xls extension for an Excel spreadsheet.  Without the extension, Windows doesn&#8217;t know which application to open the file with.</p>
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		<title>By: Mo</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/philg/2008/01/30/the-1000-hp-desktop-tower-running-windows-vista/comment-page-1/#comment-71316</link>
		<dc:creator>Mo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Feb 2008 21:50:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/philg/2008/01/30/the-1000-hp-desktop-tower-running-windo#comment-71316</guid>
		<description>@anono-mouse:

On all Intel-based Mac laptops, right-click is a tap on the touchpad with both fingers—as far as I know, Boot Camp&#039;s drivers support this in Windows. No external mouse or clever software to fudge control-click support required.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@anono-mouse:</p>
<p>On all Intel-based Mac laptops, right-click is a tap on the touchpad with both fingers—as far as I know, Boot Camp&#8217;s drivers support this in Windows. No external mouse or clever software to fudge control-click support required.</p>
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		<title>By: KW</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/philg/2008/01/30/the-1000-hp-desktop-tower-running-windows-vista/comment-page-1/#comment-71299</link>
		<dc:creator>KW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Feb 2008 21:19:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/philg/2008/01/30/the-1000-hp-desktop-tower-running-windo#comment-71299</guid>
		<description>While I agree there are some advantages to going the Apple way it&#039;s not always the best option. Buying a mac then having to by a copy of XP or Vista to run the Win only software you need is obviosuly an extra expense that many people can&#039;t or don&#039;t want to incur.

And the truth is the quality of Apple&#039;s hardware is really no better ( or worse ) than HP,Dell ect. We&#039;ve had two mac&#039;s with serious hardware problems that occurred in under two years ( both machines with failed logic boards and one with two logic board failures) and getting service was neither easy nor cheap. Apple quality is not what it used to be so I would never buy another Mac without the Applecare which can be pretty expensive (almost $400 for a MacBook Pro).

Apple has great software but average (at best) hardware and service...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I agree there are some advantages to going the Apple way it&#8217;s not always the best option. Buying a mac then having to by a copy of XP or Vista to run the Win only software you need is obviosuly an extra expense that many people can&#8217;t or don&#8217;t want to incur.</p>
<p>And the truth is the quality of Apple&#8217;s hardware is really no better ( or worse ) than HP,Dell ect. We&#8217;ve had two mac&#8217;s with serious hardware problems that occurred in under two years ( both machines with failed logic boards and one with two logic board failures) and getting service was neither easy nor cheap. Apple quality is not what it used to be so I would never buy another Mac without the Applecare which can be pretty expensive (almost $400 for a MacBook Pro).</p>
<p>Apple has great software but average (at best) hardware and service&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Rener</title>
		<link>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/philg/2008/01/30/the-1000-hp-desktop-tower-running-windows-vista/comment-page-1/#comment-71298</link>
		<dc:creator>Rener</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Feb 2008 21:19:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/philg/2008/01/30/the-1000-hp-desktop-tower-running-windo#comment-71298</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m the only Mac/OS X user in a multi-national company running Windows 2000/XP (and a couple of new Vista machines) on the desktops. Because of my work, I have to interoperate with every department in almost all formats, including Office docs.

I&#039;ve NEVER had a problem with being unable to open files or sending files people have had problems opening.

With Office docs, I use Office 2004 (waiting for my upgrade to 2008!), or use Office 2007 via Parallels (which, ironically, if you don&#039;t save in 2003 file format, can create file-compatibility problems all its own).

Parallels also allows me to run IE 6 and IE 7 for sites that require it (and, again, ironically the cross-compatibility between IE 6 and 7 is something as bad as IE vs. Firefox, Opera, Safari, etc.)

Any problems with compatibility are user-side and can be easily fixed by a little knowledge and proper habits. However, problems with bad HP hardware and 3rd party Vista support are entirely out of your hands, and (as you well discovered) can be far faster &quot;game enders&quot;.

Let your friend get a Mac if she wants one, and let her go to the Apple store where they&#039;ll show her how to quickly, easily, enjoy the computing experience again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m the only Mac/OS X user in a multi-national company running Windows 2000/XP (and a couple of new Vista machines) on the desktops. Because of my work, I have to interoperate with every department in almost all formats, including Office docs.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve NEVER had a problem with being unable to open files or sending files people have had problems opening.</p>
<p>With Office docs, I use Office 2004 (waiting for my upgrade to 2008!), or use Office 2007 via Parallels (which, ironically, if you don&#8217;t save in 2003 file format, can create file-compatibility problems all its own).</p>
<p>Parallels also allows me to run IE 6 and IE 7 for sites that require it (and, again, ironically the cross-compatibility between IE 6 and 7 is something as bad as IE vs. Firefox, Opera, Safari, etc.)</p>
<p>Any problems with compatibility are user-side and can be easily fixed by a little knowledge and proper habits. However, problems with bad HP hardware and 3rd party Vista support are entirely out of your hands, and (as you well discovered) can be far faster &#8220;game enders&#8221;.</p>
<p>Let your friend get a Mac if she wants one, and let her go to the Apple store where they&#8217;ll show her how to quickly, easily, enjoy the computing experience again.</p>
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