Comments on: File under: Shameless reposting of a locally reported story http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/yulelog/2008/04/24/file-under-shameless-reposting/ I am a mongrel - O ma! A gremlin... Wed, 08 Oct 2008 00:26:16 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: » More notes on Brandon Rosario, school reaction, and media fall-out Yule Heibel’s Post Studio © 2003-2008 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/yulelog/2008/04/24/file-under-shameless-reposting/#comment-9158 » More notes on Brandon Rosario, school reaction, and media fall-out Yule Heibel’s Post Studio © 2003-2008 Fri, 22 Aug 2008 06:27:07 +0000 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/yulelog/2008/04/24/file-under-shameless-reposting/#comment-9158 [...] effect of Brandon’s remark about the physical attributes of a particular teacher. I added a comment to my own April 24 Brandon Rosario entry, partly in response to some of the Belmont students who [...] [...] effect of Brandon’s remark about the physical attributes of a particular teacher. I added a comment to my own April 24 Brandon Rosario entry, partly in response to some of the Belmont students who [...]

]]> By: Doc Searls Weblog · Think softly and punish a big schtick http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/yulelog/2008/04/24/file-under-shameless-reposting/#comment-9151 Doc Searls Weblog · Think softly and punish a big schtick Fri, 22 Aug 2008 00:48:05 +0000 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/yulelog/2008/04/24/file-under-shameless-reposting/#comment-9151 [...] Seventeen-year-old Brandon Rosario has successfully auditioned for a job as the new Howard Stern. Opposing him, naturally, is his school’s administration. Yule Heibel has the rest. [...] [...] Seventeen-year-old Brandon Rosario has successfully auditioned for a job as the new Howard Stern. Opposing him, naturally, is his school’s administration. Yule Heibel has the rest. [...]

]]> By: Anon http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/yulelog/2008/04/24/file-under-shameless-reposting/#comment-9015 Anon Sun, 29 Jun 2008 20:03:50 +0000 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/yulelog/2008/04/24/file-under-shameless-reposting/#comment-9015 I just wanted to point out a huge difference between teaching at a High School and at a University or College. A University Instructor is teaching a class of adults who have, not only chosen to be there, but they have probably worked hard, paid money and jumped many hoops to get there. They obviously value education and will not interfere with the Instructor delivering the lesson to the class. A High School Teacher, on the other hand, works in an environment of adolescents, many of whome do not want to be there. A High School teacher's most difficult job is managing the classroom so that it is a place where the students who want to learn, can learn. A high school teacher must challange the bright, academic students and, at the same time try to motivate, trouble shoot and provide extra help to the students who find the curriculum difficult or do not yet value education. The teacher has to provide a comfortable environment for all students, and this cannot happen if her authority is questioned or undermined. Students feel more comfortable and will learn more if the teacher is the authority and has controll of the class. You could call any public school a "hothouse atmosphere." The teacher in question teaches at a school of grades nine to twelve - ages 13 to 18. It is not as easy as many people think, to keep the atmosphere of a group of thirty or more adolescents, positive and productive. And teachers are certainly not isolated from critique (if you want to call it that). They hear criticism every day. However, most of the criticism is not of the thoughtful kind and is not from the students who want to learn. Criticism also does not come just from students. Many parents believe that they know more about how to run a classroom because they have been to school. It's not only adolescents that believe that the world revolves around them. Many parents believe that the world revolves around their child as well. If students are able to freely objectify female teachers publicly then the job becomes more difficult for any female teacher. Any time and energy that's needed to maintain authority in the classroom takes time and energy away from those students who want and need help. This is not meant to further criticise Brandon, who has apologized for that specific comment. This is only to point out to you, Yule, the difference between the job of a High School Teacher and that of a University Instructor. And also to point out that Highschool Teachers are far from insulated from criticism. I just wanted to point out a huge difference between teaching at a High School and at a University or College. A University Instructor is teaching a class of adults who have, not only chosen to be there, but they have probably worked hard, paid money and jumped many hoops to get there. They obviously value education and will not interfere with the Instructor delivering the lesson to the class.

A High School Teacher, on the other hand, works in an environment of adolescents, many of whome do not want to be there. A High School teacher’s most difficult job is managing the classroom so that it is a place where the students who want to learn, can learn. A high school teacher must challange the bright, academic students and, at the same time try to motivate, trouble shoot and provide extra help to the students who find the curriculum difficult or do not yet value education.

The teacher has to provide a comfortable environment for all students, and this cannot happen if her authority is questioned or undermined. Students feel more comfortable and will learn more if the teacher is the authority and has controll of the class. You could call any public school a “hothouse atmosphere.” The teacher in question teaches at a school of grades nine to twelve - ages 13 to 18. It is not as easy as many people think, to keep the atmosphere of a group of thirty or more adolescents, positive and productive.

And teachers are certainly not isolated from critique (if you want to call it that). They hear criticism every day. However, most of the criticism is not of the thoughtful kind and is not from the students who want to learn. Criticism also does not come just from students. Many parents believe that they know more about how to run a classroom because they have been to school. It’s not only adolescents that believe that the world revolves around them. Many parents believe that the world revolves around their child as well.

If students are able to freely objectify female teachers publicly then the job becomes more difficult for any female teacher. Any time and energy that’s needed to maintain authority in the classroom takes time and energy away from those students who want and need help.

This is not meant to further criticise Brandon, who has apologized for that specific comment. This is only to point out to you, Yule, the difference between the job of a High School Teacher and that of a University Instructor. And also to point out that Highschool Teachers are far from insulated from criticism.

]]> By: Yule http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/yulelog/2008/04/24/file-under-shameless-reposting/#comment-8739 Yule Sat, 03 May 2008 18:56:12 +0000 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/yulelog/2008/04/24/file-under-shameless-reposting/#comment-8739 "anon," I've never held a comment in moderation for so long -- you commented on the 28th, and I just let the comment through now. Normally, I don't do that, but I thought I'd have the energy to write a cogent comment back. Since I've been knocked out by the flu since Monday, that hasn't been the case. (One of the reasons I held your comment back was because your use of the word 'titties' suggested that you missed the point.) . Let me just attempt a response, however. . It seems to me that teachers are very sensitive about being critiqued or having their authority questioned. The few bits I've seen of Belmont's vice-principal (who is in administration, but admins typically derive from the teacher levels) confirm that. . At the university level, on the other hand, no one blinks anymore at the fact that students evaluate their professors and that sites like ratemyprof.com abound. . I was a grad students when this was first initiated, and I had friends who were beginning university profs who had a hard time getting used to it. I also struggled with it when I started teaching -- first at Harvard as a graduate teaching fellow, and later at MIT. You see, the students could rank us by number, and that number in turn affected whether or not one was in the running to win a teaching award. . You see the problem, right? If you were a strict teacher and had high standards (and didn't dispense As like they were candies), your students might rank you low; if you were a push-over and handed out As to practically everyone, the students would rank you higher. Right? . Actually, no. It didn't take the profs (at least the younger generation) long to figure out that you can really focus on the effectiveness of your teaching, <i>and</i> handle student criticism. . Where the real changes happened was at the student level. Students learned rapidly that thoughtful criticism was much more effective and empowering than off-the-cuff remarks about a teacher's looks or wardrobe. (Yup, those happened of course because the written comments and the numerical evaluations were anonymous. And that sort of "objectification" happened all the time. Still does.) . Why did the students learn to modulate their feedback? Because they could. Because they were allowed to speak (write evaluations). I know high school courses are supposed to be evaluated by students, but the students can't really say anything about the teacher, and their remarks are more about the course. . Teachers remain isolated from critique. . It's because they are so isolated from real feedback that it's possible to think that an off-the-cuff comment about a teacher's body part will result in her having to go through "unnecessary hell," as one of the commentors (John) claimed on <a href="http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/yulelog/2008/04/27/more-notes-on-brandon-rosario-school-reaction-and-media-fall-out/#comment-8709" rel="nofollow">my follow-up post</a> on April 27. . "Unnecessary hell" because someone remarked on the teacher's breasts? It seems to me that's only possible in a hot-house atmosphere where teachers are artificially insulated from student feed-back. . When students routinely provide effective, written feed-back (which is valued in a real way -- as ours was, since it affected how our departments evaluated us as university profs), the students can move past comments about breasts (or whatever), and if someone makes a comment like that anyway, it's recognized as being of marginal value and is therefore ignored. . PS: Excuse the weird periods between paragraphs. As you've probably noticed in the comments above, line breaks get stripped out by the blog software in comments. I thought that hitting "enter" and "space" bar would be enough to make them appear, but it isn't. Space bar, period, space bar seems to do the trick, however. Without breaks, the single block paragraph can be too overwhelming to read -- so I guess the funny punctuation mark will have to be place-holder for a line break. “anon,” I’ve never held a comment in moderation for so long — you commented on the 28th, and I just let the comment through now. Normally, I don’t do that, but I thought I’d have the energy to write a cogent comment back. Since I’ve been knocked out by the flu since Monday, that hasn’t been the case. (One of the reasons I held your comment back was because your use of the word ‘titties’ suggested that you missed the point.)
.
Let me just attempt a response, however.
.
It seems to me that teachers are very sensitive about being critiqued or having their authority questioned. The few bits I’ve seen of Belmont’s vice-principal (who is in administration, but admins typically derive from the teacher levels) confirm that.
.
At the university level, on the other hand, no one blinks anymore at the fact that students evaluate their professors and that sites like ratemyprof.com abound.
.
I was a grad students when this was first initiated, and I had friends who were beginning university profs who had a hard time getting used to it. I also struggled with it when I started teaching — first at Harvard as a graduate teaching fellow, and later at MIT. You see, the students could rank us by number, and that number in turn affected whether or not one was in the running to win a teaching award.
.
You see the problem, right? If you were a strict teacher and had high standards (and didn’t dispense As like they were candies), your students might rank you low; if you were a push-over and handed out As to practically everyone, the students would rank you higher. Right?
.
Actually, no. It didn’t take the profs (at least the younger generation) long to figure out that you can really focus on the effectiveness of your teaching, and handle student criticism.
.
Where the real changes happened was at the student level. Students learned rapidly that thoughtful criticism was much more effective and empowering than off-the-cuff remarks about a teacher’s looks or wardrobe. (Yup, those happened of course because the written comments and the numerical evaluations were anonymous. And that sort of “objectification” happened all the time. Still does.)
.
Why did the students learn to modulate their feedback? Because they could. Because they were allowed to speak (write evaluations). I know high school courses are supposed to be evaluated by students, but the students can’t really say anything about the teacher, and their remarks are more about the course.
.
Teachers remain isolated from critique.
.
It’s because they are so isolated from real feedback that it’s possible to think that an off-the-cuff comment about a teacher’s body part will result in her having to go through “unnecessary hell,” as one of the commentors (John) claimed on my follow-up post on April 27.
.
“Unnecessary hell” because someone remarked on the teacher’s breasts? It seems to me that’s only possible in a hot-house atmosphere where teachers are artificially insulated from student feed-back.
.
When students routinely provide effective, written feed-back (which is valued in a real way — as ours was, since it affected how our departments evaluated us as university profs), the students can move past comments about breasts (or whatever), and if someone makes a comment like that anyway, it’s recognized as being of marginal value and is therefore ignored.
.
PS: Excuse the weird periods between paragraphs. As you’ve probably noticed in the comments above, line breaks get stripped out by the blog software in comments. I thought that hitting “enter” and “space” bar would be enough to make them appear, but it isn’t. Space bar, period, space bar seems to do the trick, however. Without breaks, the single block paragraph can be too overwhelming to read — so I guess the funny punctuation mark will have to be place-holder for a line break.

]]> By: anon http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/yulelog/2008/04/24/file-under-shameless-reposting/#comment-8721 anon Tue, 29 Apr 2008 05:57:41 +0000 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/yulelog/2008/04/24/file-under-shameless-reposting/#comment-8721 "The one thing I would encourge Ms. T. to do is to hold up her head (just as the “vertically challenged” vice principal had to), and — martial arts style — to turn the “insult” around against those who would wield it" Big titties are something to be proud of, don't see why she should have a problem holding her head high... that is unless they weight too much lol “The one thing I would encourge Ms. T. to do is to hold up her head (just as the “vertically challenged” vice principal had to), and — martial arts style — to turn the “insult” around against those who would wield it”

Big titties are something to be proud of, don’t see why she should have a problem holding her head high… that is unless they weight too much lol

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